 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
redrocketrider
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Nervino airport
|
 Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:53 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
 |
|
Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue Skies.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Keep the dirty side down/Blue skies. Bob |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MDKitfox(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Toodie and Bob,
I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach.
Rick Weiss
Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-)
Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View
Spruce Creek Fly In, FL
MDKitfox(at)aol.com (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote:
| Quote: | Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue Skies.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:48 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Toodie and bob,
My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23. My climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good.
Lowell
From: Richard Weiss (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Toodie and Bob,
I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach.
Rick Weiss
Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-)
Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View
Spruce Creek Fly In, FL
MDKitfox(at)aol.com (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote:
| Quote: | Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue Skies.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
|
[quote]
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:47 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it?
I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second hand one if anyone has one they want to sell?
Sacha
On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote] Toodie and bob,
My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23°. My climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good.
Lowell
From: Richard Weiss (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Toodie and Bob,
I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach.
Rick Weiss
Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-)
Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View
Spruce Creek Fly In, FL
MDKitfox(at)aol.com (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote:
| Quote: | Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue Skies.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
redrocketrider
Joined: 13 May 2011
Posts: 67
Location: Nervino airport
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:45 am Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Sacha, I will probably sell the GSC for a very fair price, contact me off list, I am going to be gone for a few days and will be out of touch. Bob
rtav8or2(at)psln.com (rtav8or2(at)psln.com)
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
[quote] From: Sacha (uuccio(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:41 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it?
I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second hand one if anyone has one they want to sell?
Sacha
On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Toodie and bob,
My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23°. My climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good.
Lowell
From: Richard Weiss (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Toodie and Bob,
I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach.
Rick Weiss
Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-)
Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View
Spruce Creek Fly In, FL
MDKitfox(at)aol.com (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote:
| Quote: | Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue Skies.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
|
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Keep the dirty side down/Blue skies. Bob |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:20 am Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Sacha,
Most of my numbers are very preliminary. And after flying the actual test phases, it was mostly to put the required 40 hours on it and I throttled back because distance was not as important as time and I didn't want to burn more gas than was necessary. So numbers are not finalized.
I was getting about 100 mph at 5000 RPM. During the test phase in probably 85-90 degree days, climb was very close to 1000 fpm. The 1300 I mentioned was at a temp in the high 50s to low 60s. As I do the longer cross country flights fuel burn will be more apparent. I chose the 68" prop because that is what was recommended by the guys I knew that have been running the Warp prop.
One issue I did have with the Warp Prop is that one blade would change pitch one degree after running for a short while. I would re-pitch it and it would change the one degree again. I contacted Warp and this is there explanation. The aluminum collar is placed in the mold and the resin and fabric are the inserted and cured under pressure. Occasionally the resin will shrink away from the aluminum collar. He explained that is the reason for the holes drilled through the collar at 180°. The resin is supposed to run into the holes and act as a pinning mechanism. Apparently this was not working on my prop and he suggested I pin with aluminum pins.
I drilled two 3/16" holes through the collar and into the hub about 3/8" deep. and about an inch from the hub end. I cut two pins of 3/16" aluminum and glued them in the holes with a structural adhesive. I have to say here that this is what I did as I forgot to ask him for the factory recommended procedure. If anyone else is having this problem, I would suggest calling for the exact recommendations.
Lowell
From: Sacha (uuccio(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:41 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it?
I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second hand one if anyone has one they want to sell?
Sacha
On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote] Toodie and bob,
My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23°. My climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good.
Lowell
From: Richard Weiss (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Toodie and Bob,
I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach.
Rick Weiss
Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-)
Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View
Spruce Creek Fly In, FL
MDKitfox(at)aol.com (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote:
| Quote: | Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue Skies.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
|
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:19 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Lowell,
Thanks for the detailed info!
I’m also leaning towards a 3-blade 68”. I know this is very different from a wooden fixed pitch prop, but I’m wondering whether I should spend the extra money and get an in-flight adjustable pitch since I plan to be doing some cruising around with the plane once I get comfortable with it. If anyone has any insight/experience there, I’d appreciate hearing it.
Sacha
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2013 16:20
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Sacha,
Most of my numbers are very preliminary. And after flying the actual test phases, it was mostly to put the required 40 hours on it and I throttled back because distance was not as important as time and I didn't want to burn more gas than was necessary. So numbers are not finalized.
I was getting about 100 mph at 5000 RPM. During the test phase in probably 85-90 degree days, climb was very close to 1000 fpm. The 1300 I mentioned was at a temp in the high 50s to low 60s. As I do the longer cross country flights fuel burn will be more apparent. I chose the 68" prop because that is what was recommended by the guys I knew that have been running the Warp prop.
One issue I did have with the Warp Prop is that one blade would change pitch one degree after running for a short while. I would re-pitch it and it would change the one degree again. I contacted Warp and this is there explanation. The aluminum collar is placed in the mold and the resin and fabric are the inserted and cured under pressure. Occasionally the resin will shrink away from the aluminum collar. He explained that is the reason for the holes drilled through the collar at 180°. The resin is supposed to run into the holes and act as a pinning mechanism. Apparently this was not working on my prop and he suggested I pin with aluminum pins.
I drilled two 3/16" holes through the collar and into the hub about 3/8" deep. and about an inch from the hub end. I cut two pins of 3/16" aluminum and glued them in the holes with a structural adhesive. I have to say here that this is what I did as I forgot to ask him for the factory recommended procedure. If anyone else is having this problem, I would suggest calling for the exact recommendations.
Lowell
From: Sacha (uuccio(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:41 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it?
I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second hand one if anyone has one they want to sell?
Sacha
On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Toodie and bob,
My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23°. My climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good.
Lowell
From: Richard Weiss (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Toodie and Bob,
I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach.
Rick Weiss
Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-)
Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View
Spruce Creek Fly In, FL
MDKitfox(at)aol.com (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote:
Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue Skies.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
01234567890
|
1234567890123456789012
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sourdostan(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:14 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Sacha-
I fly a Speedster Model IV with an 80 hp. 912 . For the past 1500 hours+ (1947 hrs. TT) I have used a 70" IVO cabin-adjustable prop. I wouldn't fly behind anything else, even though it takes a bit of maintenance once and awhile. I cruise around 52-5300 rpm at 115 mph, burn under 4 gph and can get 120 mph if I goose it up to about 4 gph. My climb out, even here in the Mile High City, is real positive. I wouldn't be able to get this performance without this prop. Also, I fly a lot of cross country and really like this prop for this purpose.
Stan Specht
Denver, Colorado
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:36 am Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Stan,
That sounds great to me! Is that the 3-blade model? There is a lot of mountainous terrain where I fly so I'm beginning to think it makes sense for me to go that route.
Sacha
(Kitfox IV rebuild, 80hp, Sicily.... Almost done!)
On Mar 4, 2013, at 7:13, Stan Specht <sourdostan(at)aol.com (sourdostan(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote]Sacha-
I fly a Speedster Model IV with an 80 hp. 912 . For the past 1500 hours+ (1947 hrs. TT) I have used a 70" IVO cabin-adjustable prop. I wouldn't fly behind anything else, even though it takes a bit of maintenance once and awhile. I cruise around 52-5300 rpm at 115 mph, burn under 4 gph and can get 120 mph if I goose it up to about 4 gph. My climb out, even here in the Mile High City, is real positive. I wouldn't be able to get this performance without this prop. Also, I fly a lot of cross country and really like this prop for this purpose.
Stan Specht
Denver, Colorado
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sourdostan(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:47 am Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Yes, it's the three-blade Ultralight model. I frequently fly in mountainous areas as well. I love my Model IV!!! Stan
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:59 am Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Stan,
I installed the same prop with a 812ul behind it on my model 5, I only have about 60 hours on it and am very pleased with the performance, was wondering if you would be willing to share how you trim your prop for takeoff, cruise, etc, also did you set the stop nuts on the screw travel to limit the high and low ends of your pitch adjustment?
Lloyd C
Model 5 Outback 912ul IVO IFA
Northern Mi.
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stan Specht
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 11:47 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Yes, it's the three-blade Ultralight model. I frequently fly in mountainous areas as well. I love my Model IV!!!
Stan
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sourdostan(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:35 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
LLoyd-
I get about 5400 rpm static run-up with my 70" IVO prop in full take-off/climb pitch. It can easily redline during takeoff, since I do not have any stop washers on the prop. I would not let anyone else fly the aircraft, since it could be easy to over-rev during takeoff. Not sure if I would recommend this situation to anyone else, but I have lots of hours on the a/c and am very used to its abilities. I usually climb out at 60-65 mph ias and 10 deg. flaps with great success. In cruise I set the throttle at about 5500 rpm and bring the rpm to about 5200 rpm with prop pitch. (Anything below about 5200 I begin seeing a slower speed.) I see about 3.7-3.8 gph in this setting for about a true airspeed of 115 mph.( A friend that has flown with me thinks I get closer to 120 mph at this setting.) If I want to burn 4 gph I can get about 120 mph. Not bad on 80 hp.
Stan
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
7suds(at)Chartermi.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:31 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Stan, All,
I either read or heard somewhere that with the IFA prop you can fire wall the engine and trim the prop to 5500 RPM for your max cruise speed, any experience with that theory of operation?
Lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stan Specht
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 12:35 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
LLoyd-
I get about 5400 rpm static run-up with my 70" IVO prop in full take-off/climb pitch. It can easily redline during takeoff, since I do not have any stop washers on the prop. I would not let anyone else fly the aircraft, since it could be easy to over-rev during takeoff. Not sure if I would recommend this situation to anyone else, but I have lots of hours on the a/c and am very used to its abilities. I usually climb out at 60-65 mph ias and 10 deg. flaps with great success. In cruise I set the throttle at about 5500 rpm and bring the rpm to about 5200 rpm with prop pitch. (Anything below about 5200 I begin seeing a slower speed.) I see about 3.7-3.8 gph in this setting for about a true airspeed of 115 mph.( A friend that has flown with me thinks I get closer to 120 mph at this setting.) If I want to burn 4 gph I can get about 120 mph. Not bad on 80 hp.
Stan
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sourdostan(at)aol.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
LLoyd-
I haven't heard of this approach, but I would like to hear from someone who actually knows the implications before I would try it. Maybe someone can help us with this. My initial guess is that it might cut down on fuel efficiency while increasing speed.
Stan
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:14 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
What does firewall the engine mean?
Sacha
On Mar 15, 2013, at 1:16, Stan Specht <sourdostan(at)aol.com (sourdostan(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote]LLoyd-
I haven't heard of this approach, but I would like to hear from someone who actually knows the implications before I would try it. Maybe someone can help us with this. My initial guess is that it might cut down on fuel efficiency while increasing speed.
Stan
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:03 am Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
I wonder if this would be a good idea without a manifold pressure gauge. It sort of sounds like the no nos about lugging an automobile engine.
Lowell
From: Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky (7suds(at)Chartermi.net)
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:30 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Stan, All,
I either read or heard somewhere that with the IFA prop you can fire wall the engine and trim the prop to 5500 RPM for your max cruise speed, any experience with that theory of operation?
Lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stan Specht
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 12:35 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
LLoyd-
I get about 5400 rpm static run-up with my 70" IVO prop in full take-off/climb pitch. It can easily redline during takeoff, since I do not have any stop washers on the prop. I would not let anyone else fly the aircraft, since it could be easy to over-rev during takeoff. Not sure if I would recommend this situation to anyone else, but I have lots of hours on the a/c and am very used to its abilities. I usually climb out at 60-65 mph ias and 10 deg. flaps with great success. In cruise I set the throttle at about 5500 rpm and bring the rpm to about 5200 rpm with prop pitch. (Anything below about 5200 I begin seeing a slower speed.) I see about 3.7-3.8 gph in this setting for about a true airspeed of 115 mph.( A friend that has flown with me thinks I get closer to 120 mph at this setting.) If I want to burn 4 gph I can get about 120 mph. Not bad on 80 hp.
Stan
-----Original Message-----
From: Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky <7suds(at)Chartermi.net (7suds(at)Chartermi.net)>
To: kitfox-list <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Sun, Mar 10, 2013 12:59 pm
Subject: RE: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Stan,
I installed the same prop with a 812ul behind it on my model 5, I only have about 60 hours on it and am very pleased with the performance, was wondering if you would be willing to share how you trim your prop for takeoff, cruise, etc, also did you set the stop nuts on the screw travel to limit the high and low ends of your pitch adjustment?
Lloyd C
Model 5 Outback 912ul IVO IFA
Northern Mi.
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com ([email]owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com?[/email])] On Behalf Of Stan Specht
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 11:47 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Yes, it's the three-blade Ultralight model. I frequently fly in mountainous areas as well. I love my Model IV!!!
Stan
-----Original Message-----
From: Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>
To: kitfox-list <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Mon, Mar 4, 2013 5:36 am
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Stan,
That sounds great to me! Is that the 3-blade model? There is a lot of mountainous terrain where I fly so I'm beginning to think it makes sense for me to go that route.
Sacha
(Kitfox IV rebuild, 80hp, Sicily.... Almost done!)
On Mar 4, 2013, at 7:13, Stan Specht <sourdostan(at)aol.com (sourdostan(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Sacha-
I fly a Speedster Model IV with an 80 hp. 912 . For the past 1500 hours+ (1947 hrs. TT) I have used a 70" IVO cabin-adjustable prop. I wouldn't fly behind anything else, even though it takes a bit of maintenance once and awhile. I cruise around 52-5300 rpm at 115 mph, burn under 4 gph and can get 120 mph if I goose it up to about 4 gph. My climb out, even here in the Mile High City, is real positive. I wouldn't be able to get this performance without this prop. Also, I fly a lot of cross country and really like this prop for this purpose.
Stan Specht
Denver, Colorado
-----Original Message-----
From: Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>
To: kitfox-list <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Sun, Mar 3, 2013 2:19 pm
Subject: RE: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Lowell,
Thanks for the detailed info!
I’m also leaning towards a 3-blade 68”. I know this is very different from a wooden fixed pitch prop, but I’m wondering whether I should spend the extra money and get an in-flight adjustable pitch since I plan to be doing some cruising around with the plane once I get comfortable with it. If anyone has any insight/experience there, I’d appreciate hearing it.
Sacha
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com ([email]owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com?[/email])] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2013 16:20
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Sacha,
Most of my numbers are very preliminary. And after flying the actual test phases, it was mostly to put the required 40 hours on it and I throttled back because distance was not as important as time and I didn't want to burn more gas than was necessary. So numbers are not finalized.
I was getting about 100 mph at 5000 RPM. During the test phase in probably 85-90 degree days, climb was very close to 1000 fpm. The 1300 I mentioned was at a temp in the high 50s to low 60s. As I do the longer cross country flights fuel burn will be more apparent. I chose the 68" prop because that is what was recommended by the guys I knew that have been running the Warp prop.
One issue I did have with the Warp Prop is that one blade would change pitch one degree after running for a short while. I would re-pitch it and it would change the one degree again. I contacted Warp and this is there explanation. The aluminum collar is placed in the mold and the resin and fabric are the inserted and cured under pressure. Occasionally the resin will shrink away from the aluminum collar. He explained that is the reason for the holes drilled through the collar at 180°. The resin is supposed to run into the holes and act as a pinning mechanism. Apparently this was not working on my prop and he suggested I pin with aluminum pins.
I drilled two 3/16" holes through the collar and into the hub about 3/8" deep. and about an inch from the hub end. I cut two pins of 3/16" aluminum and glued them in the holes with a structural adhesive. I have to say here that this is what I did as I forgot to ask him for the factory recommended procedure. If anyone else is having this problem, I would suggest calling for the exact recommendations.
Lowell
From: Sacha (uuccio(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:41 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it?
I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second hand one if anyone has one they want to sell?
Sacha
On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Toodie and bob,
My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23°. My climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good.
Lowell
From: Richard Weiss (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Toodie and Bob,
I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach.
Rick Weiss
Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-)
Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View
Spruce Creek Fly In, FL
MDKitfox(at)aol.com (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote:
Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue Skies.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
01234567890
|
1234567890
123456
7890123456
|
789 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
0 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
1 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
2
| Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
3 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
4 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
5 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
6 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
7 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
8
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 Database is out of date.
| Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
901234
567890123456789 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
0 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
1 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
2
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 03/07/13
| Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
3 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:36 am Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Yeah… one of the issues I still have about installing an IFA is that there is no more space on my panel to install the extra instrument for reading the MAP… as far as I understand (which may not be very much!) it’s not really wise to be without one.
Sacha
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Friday, 15 March, 2013 16:03
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
I wonder if this would be a good idea without a manifold pressure gauge. It sort of sounds like the no nos about lugging an automobile engine.
Lowell
From: Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky (7suds(at)Chartermi.net)
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:30 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Stan, All,
I either read or heard somewhere that with the IFA prop you can fire wall the engine and trim the prop to 5500 RPM for your max cruise speed, any experience with that theory of operation?
Lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Stan Specht
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 12:35 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
LLoyd-
I get about 5400 rpm static run-up with my 70" IVO prop in full take-off/climb pitch. It can easily redline during takeoff, since I do not have any stop washers on the prop. I would not let anyone else fly the aircraft, since it could be easy to over-rev during takeoff. Not sure if I would recommend this situation to anyone else, but I have lots of hours on the a/c and am very used to its abilities. I usually climb out at 60-65 mph ias and 10 deg. flaps with great success. In cruise I set the throttle at about 5500 rpm and bring the rpm to about 5200 rpm with prop pitch. (Anything below about 5200 I begin seeing a slower speed.) I see about 3.7-3.8 gph in this setting for about a true airspeed of 115 mph.( A friend that has flown with me thinks I get closer to 120 mph at this setting.) If I want to burn 4 gph I can get about 120 mph. Not bad on 80 hp.
Stan
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jim Shumaker
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 106
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:23 pm Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
It should be no problem to run that way. Rotax reccomends against running the engine at full throttle if less than 5200 rpm can be maintained (as in a climb).
Jim Shumaker
Kitfox III
1100 hours
Rotax 912 ul
Warp drive 3 blade ground adjustable.
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, March 15, 2013 9:13:33 AM
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
I wonder if this would be a good idea without a manifold pressure gauge. It sort of sounds like the no nos about lugging an automobile engine.
Lowell
From: Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky (7suds(at)Chartermi.net)
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:30 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Stan, All,
I either read or heard somewhere that with the IFA prop you can fire wall the engine and trim the prop to 5500 RPM for your max cruise speed, any experience with that theory of operation?
Lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stan Specht
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 12:35 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
LLoyd-
I get about 5400 rpm static run-up with my 70" IVO prop in full take-off/climb pitch. It can easily redline during takeoff, since I do not have any stop washers on the prop. I would not let anyone else fly the aircraft, since it could be easy to over-rev during takeoff. Not sure if I would recommend this situation to anyone else, but I have lots of hours on the a/c and am very used to its abilities. I usually climb out at 60-65 mph ias and 10 deg. flaps with great success. In cruise I set the throttle at about 5500 rpm and bring the rpm to about 5200 rpm with prop pitch. (Anything below about 5200 I begin seeing a slower speed.) I see about 3.7-3.8 gph in this setting for about a true airspeed of 115 mph.( A friend that has flown with me thinks I get closer to 120 mph at this setting.) If I want to burn 4 gph I can get about 120 mph. Not bad on 80 hp.
Stan
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________
Jim Shumaker |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:08 am Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Hi Jim, Lowell, Stan et al,
I’ve been learning a lot in this conversation, thanks for your inputs.
Today I woke up early and decided to go and read the read up the Rotax
documentation.... Here is what I found:
- Rotax service letter SL-912-016 / SL-914-014 (search for the
later on ROAN as if you search for the former it does not appear for some
reason) is entitled “Essential Information Regarding Engine behavior,
Performance and Manifold Pressure Data for Rotax 912 and 914 Series”.
Section 3.1.4 specifies that a MAP gauge *must* be fitted when using an in
flight adjustable prop. Presumably so that one does not load the engine
excessively with RPM too low.
- The Operators manual (Ed 3, Rev. 0, September 01/2012) has a
table on page 5-3 of recommended RPM/MAP settings for the 912 engines with
variable pitch propellers which I’ve reproduced here:
Power Setting
RPM
HP
Torque (Nm)
Map
Take-off
5800
80
98.1
Full throttle
Max. continuous
5500
78
100.7
Full throttle
75%
5000
58
83.1
27.2
65%
4800
50
75.0
26.5
55%
4300
43
70.8
26.3*
- * It looks like the MAP of 26.3 for 4300 RPM is wrong in the
above table. If I check the graph in Fig. 2 on page 5-2, for 4300 RPM I read
off 24.3, so I guess there’s a misprint there. The other numbers look ok and
appear to make sense.
- In my case, I don’t have space for a MAP gauge on my panel, but I
already have a Floscan fuel monitor/gauge. I’m wondering if that could be
substituted for the MAP gauge? After all, fuel burn tells me how much
energy I’m feeding into the engine, so it should be very closely correlated
to power developed. And my fuel return line goes back to the gascolator
(downstream of the fuel flow sensor), so the fuel slow sensor should be
measuring net fuel consumption. I’m just not sure how accurate/responsive
it is to changes. Anyway, I’ve used the fuel consumption (Fig 2 on page
5-2) of the Operators manual and derived the following table (where I’ve
also corrected the misprint I mentioned above). Here, I’ve reported the
power requirement of the propeller rather than the max engine output, since
the former is what is almost perfectly proportional to fuel flow, as can be
verified by the fact that the last column (giving fuel consumption in L/h
per HP developed) is almost constant.
Table derived from the 912 Rotax Operators Manual (p. 5-2 & 5-3) showing
power settings, RPM, Torque, MAP and fuel consumption along the propeller
power curve (corrected for misprints)
Power Setting
RPM
HP (prop)
Torque (Nm)
Map
Fuel Cons (L/h)
Fuel Cons GPH
L/h/HP
Take-off
5800
80.0
98.1
Full throttle
22.7
6.0
0.28
Max. continuous
5500
69.0
100.7
Full throttle
19.0
5.0
0.28
75%
5000
51.0
83.1
27.2
14.7
3.9
0.29
65%
4800
46.0
75.0
26.5
13.0
3.4
0.28
55%
4300
33.5
70.8
24.3
10.0
2.6
0.30
The fuel consumption numbers appear to make sense and to be similar to
what e.g. Stan was reporting.
Sacha
On Mar 16, 2013, at 2:23, James Shumaker <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
It should be no problem to run that way. Rotax reccomends against running
the engine at full throttle if less than 5200 rpm can be maintained (as in a
climb).
Jim Shumaker
Kitfox III
1100 hours
Rotax 912 ul
Warp drive 3 blade ground adjustable.
_____
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, March 15, 2013 9:13:33 AM
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
I wonder if this would be a good idea without a manifold pressure gauge. It
sort of sounds like the no nos about lugging an automobile engine.
Lowell
From: Lloyd <mailto:7suds(at)Chartermi.net> & Lorrie Cudnohufsky
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:30 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Stan, All,
I either read or heard somewhere that with the IFA prop you can fire wall
the engine and trim the prop to 5500 RPM for your max cruise speed, any
experience with that theory of operation?
Lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stan Specht
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 12:35 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
LLoyd-
I get about 5400 rpm static run-up with my 70" IVO prop in full
take-off/climb pitch. It can easily redline during takeoff, since I do not
have any stop washers on the prop. I would not let anyone else fly the
aircraft, since it could be easy to over-rev during takeoff. Not sure if I
would recommend this situation to anyone else, but I have lots of hours on
the a/c and am very used to its abilities. I usually climb out at 60-65 mph
ias and 10 deg. flaps with great success. In cruise I set the throttle at
about 5500 rpm and bring the rpm to about 5200 rpm with prop pitch.
(Anything below about 5200 I begin seeing a slower speed.) I see about
3.7-3.8 gph in this setting for about a true airspeed of 115 mph.( A friend
that has flown with me thinks I get closer to 120 mph at this setting.) If I
want to burn 4 gph I can get about 120 mph. Not bad on 80 hp.
Stan
--
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
| Description: |
|
Download |
| Filename: |
winmail.dat |
| Filesize: |
42.82 KB |
| Downloaded: |
413 Time(s) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:53 am Post subject: Warpdrive ! Scotty! |
|
|
Sacha,
Thanks for the detailed post. This is a keeper.
Lowell
From: Sacha (uuccio(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 5:40 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Reposting with pics rather than tables! Sorry about that!
Hi Jim, Lowell, Stan et al,
I’ve been learning a lot in this conversation, thanks for your inputs. Today I woke up early and decided to go and read up the Rotax documentation.... Here is what I found:
- Rotax service letter SL-912-016 / SL-914-014 (search for the later on ROAN as if you search for the former it does not appear for some reason) is entitled “Essential Information Regarding Engine behavior, Performance and Manifold Pressure Data for Rotax 912 and 914 Series”. Section 3.1.4 specifies that a MAP gauge *must* be fitted when using an in flight adjustable prop. Presumably so that one does not load the engine excessively with RPM too low.
- The Operators manual (Ed 3, Rev. 0, September 01/2012) has a table on page 5-3 of recommended RPM/MAP settings for the 912 engines with variable pitch propellers which I’ve reproduced here:
[img]cid:344354A368B44E6F8AEBBBA4CEF1BF0B(at)LowellPC[/img]
* It looks like the MAP of 26.3 for 4300 RPM is wrong in the above table. If I check the graph in Fig. 2 on page 5-2, for 4300 RPM I read off 24.3, so I guess there’s a misprint there. The other numbers look ok and appear to make sense.
- In my case, I don’t have space for a MAP gauge on my panel, but I already have a Floscan fuel monitor/gauge. I’m wondering if that could be substituted for the MAP gauge? After all, fuel burn tells me how much energy I’m feeding into the engine, so it should be very closely correlated to power developed. And my fuel return line goes back to the gascolator (downstream of the fuel flow sensor), so the fuel slow sensor should be measuring net fuel consumption. I’m just not sure how accurate/responsive it is to changes. Anyway, I’ve used the fuel consumption (Fig 2 on page 5-2) of the Operators manual and derived the following table. Here, I’ve reported the power requirement of the propeller rather than the max engine output, since the former is what is almost perfectly proportional to fuel flow, as can be verified by the fact that the last column (giving fuel consumption in L/h per HP developed) is almost constant. Data is from pages 5-2 & 5-3 of the operator manual (corrected for the misprint I mentioned above)
[img]cid:EE6165BB5790455F87609D64C89B6F4E(at)LowellPC[/img]
The fuel consumption numbers appear to make sense and to be similar to what e.g. Stan was reporting.
Sacha
On Mar 16, 2013, at 2:23, James Shumaker <jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net (jimshumaker(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
It should be no problem to run that way. Rotax reccomends against running the engine at full throttle if less than 5200 rpm can be maintained (as in a climb).
Jim Shumaker
Kitfox III
1100 hours
Rotax 912 ul
Warp drive 3 blade ground adjustable.
From: Lowell Fitt <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)>
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Fri, March 15, 2013 9:13:33 AM
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
I wonder if this would be a good idea without a manifold pressure gauge. It sort of sounds like the no nos about lugging an automobile engine.
Lowell
From: Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky (7suds(at)Chartermi.net)
Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 6:30 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Stan, All,
I either read or heard somewhere that with the IFA prop you can fire wall the engine and trim the prop to 5500 RPM for your max cruise speed, any experience with that theory of operation?
Lloyd
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Stan Specht
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2013 12:35 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
LLoyd-
I get about 5400 rpm static run-up with my 70" IVO prop in full take-off/climb pitch. It can easily redline during takeoff, since I do not have any stop washers on the prop. I would not let anyone else fly the aircraft, since it could be easy to over-rev during takeoff. Not sure if I would recommend this situation to anyone else, but I have lots of hours on the a/c and am very used to its abilities. I usually climb out at 60-65 mph ias and 10 deg. flaps with great success. In cruise I set the throttle at about 5500 rpm and bring the rpm to about 5200 rpm with prop pitch. (Anything below about 5200 I begin seeing a slower speed.) I see about 3.7-3.8 gph in this setting for about a true airspeed of 115 mph.( A friend that has flown with me thinks I get closer to 120 mph at this setting.) If I want to burn 4 gph I can get about 120 mph. Not bad on 80 hp.
Stan
-----Original Message-----
From: Lloyd & Lorrie Cudnohufsky <7suds(at)Chartermi.net (7suds(at)Chartermi.net)>
To: kitfox-list <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Sun, Mar 10, 2013 12:59 pm
Subject: RE: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Stan,
I installed the same prop with a 812ul behind it on my model 5, I only have about 60 hours on it and am very pleased with the performance, was wondering if you would be willing to share how you trim your prop for takeoff, cruise, etc, also did you set the stop nuts on the screw travel to limit the high and low ends of your pitch adjustment?
Lloyd C
Model 5 Outback 912ul IVO IFA
Northern Mi.
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com ([email]owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com?[/email])] On Behalf Of Stan Specht
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 11:47 AM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Yes, it's the three-blade Ultralight model. I frequently fly in mountainous areas as well. I love my Model IV!!!
Stan
-----Original Message-----
From: Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>
To: kitfox-list <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Mon, Mar 4, 2013 5:36 am
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Stan,
That sounds great to me! Is that the 3-blade model? There is a lot of mountainous terrain where I fly so I'm beginning to think it makes sense for me to go that route.
Sacha
(Kitfox IV rebuild, 80hp, Sicily.... Almost done!)
On Mar 4, 2013, at 7:13, Stan Specht <sourdostan(at)aol.com (sourdostan(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Sacha-
I fly a Speedster Model IV with an 80 hp. 912 . For the past 1500 hours+ (1947 hrs. TT) I have used a 70" IVO cabin-adjustable prop. I wouldn't fly behind anything else, even though it takes a bit of maintenance once and awhile. I cruise around 52-5300 rpm at 115 mph, burn under 4 gph and can get 120 mph if I goose it up to about 4 gph. My climb out, even here in the Mile High City, is real positive. I wouldn't be able to get this performance without this prop. Also, I fly a lot of cross country and really like this prop for this purpose.
Stan Specht
Denver, Colorado
-----Original Message-----
From: Sacha <uuccio(at)gmail.com (uuccio(at)gmail.com)>
To: kitfox-list <kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Sun, Mar 3, 2013 2:19 pm
Subject: RE: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Lowell,
Thanks for the detailed info!
I’m also leaning towards a 3-blade 68”. I know this is very different from a wooden fixed pitch prop, but I’m wondering whether I should spend the extra money and get an in-flight adjustable pitch since I plan to be doing some cruising around with the plane once I get comfortable with it. If anyone has any insight/experience there, I’d appreciate hearing it.
Sacha
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com ([email]owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com?[/email])] On Behalf Of Lowell Fitt
Sent: Saturday, 02 March, 2013 16:20
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Sacha,
Most of my numbers are very preliminary. And after flying the actual test phases, it was mostly to put the required 40 hours on it and I throttled back because distance was not as important as time and I didn't want to burn more gas than was necessary. So numbers are not finalized.
I was getting about 100 mph at 5000 RPM. During the test phase in probably 85-90 degree days, climb was very close to 1000 fpm. The 1300 I mentioned was at a temp in the high 50s to low 60s. As I do the longer cross country flights fuel burn will be more apparent. I chose the 68" prop because that is what was recommended by the guys I knew that have been running the Warp prop.
One issue I did have with the Warp Prop is that one blade would change pitch one degree after running for a short while. I would re-pitch it and it would change the one degree again. I contacted Warp and this is there explanation. The aluminum collar is placed in the mold and the resin and fabric are the inserted and cured under pressure. Occasionally the resin will shrink away from the aluminum collar. He explained that is the reason for the holes drilled through the collar at 180°. The resin is supposed to run into the holes and act as a pinning mechanism. Apparently this was not working on my prop and he suggested I pin with aluminum pins.
I drilled two 3/16" holes through the collar and into the hub about 3/8" deep. and about an inch from the hub end. I cut two pins of 3/16" aluminum and glued them in the holes with a structural adhesive. I have to say here that this is what I did as I forgot to ask him for the factory recommended procedure. If anyone else is having this problem, I would suggest calling for the exact recommendations.
Lowell
From: Sacha (uuccio(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 10:41 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
That's great info... Lowell/All, what kind of cruise characteristics (speed, rpm, fuel consumption) do you get out of it?
I am actually looking for a prop for a Kitfox IV - 80hp. Thinking Warp or Ivoprop or a wooden one by a local maker. I'd also consider a second hand one if anyone has one they want to sell?
Sacha
On Mar 2, 2013, at 4:45, "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net (lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Toodie and bob,
My Model IV - 80 HP with 68" Warp prop is pitched at 23°. My climb RPM is not as great as Rick's - 5200 but and I am still fairly early in the flying on this airplane - 45 hours. Things may change, but I often see 1300 fpm climb and cruise is pretty good.
Lowell
From: Richard Weiss (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:48 PM
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Warpdrive ! Scotty!
Toodie and Bob,
I have my Warp Drive prop set for 17 degrees. It seems the engine/plane combination is 'comfortable' at the pitch setting. It's very smooth and I get about 5600--5700 RPM on take off, although takeoff is so quick I barely have time to look at the tach.
Rick Weiss
Series V (Skystar s/n 1) Speedster:-)
Rotax 912S, Dynon Sky View
Spruce Creek Fly In, FL
MDKitfox(at)aol.com (MDKitfox(at)aol.com)
On Mar 1, 2013, at 6:52 PM, rtmarshall wrote:
Hello Kitfox flyers out in the hinterland, I am sure there is a segment of the group that use's the 70" warpdrive prop on their 80HP KF. As a starting point for pitch what seems to be the # ? I am thinking around 21* pitch, might be too much " what does the group think? Thanks much for your input and thoughts on the subject. Blue Skies.
Toodie & Bob Marshall
Beckwourth, CA
KF/4/1200 flying
01234567890
|
1234567890
123456
7890123456
|
789 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
0 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
1 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
2
| Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
3 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
4 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
5 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
6 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
7 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
8
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2899 Database is out of date.
| Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
901234
5678901
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2904 03/07/13
234567
89 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
0 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
1 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
2 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
3 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
4 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
5 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
6 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
7 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
8 | Quote: | | 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D |
9012345
|
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
5.47 KB |
| Viewed: |
12653 Time(s) |
|
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
10.68 KB |
| Viewed: |
12653 Time(s) |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
