 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:13 am Post subject: engine won't start |
 |
|
Ok, I'm officially stumped.
I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from the switch to the mags.
Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs. Flew to Auburn.
Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedance between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied with pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied in the off position.
Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't start.
What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
George(at)oilhelp.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:25 am Post subject: engine won't start |
|
|
The only other thing that might be missing is compression or spark at the right time, providing that the spark and fuel you mentioned is adequate.
Best Regards,
George Douglas
Amsoil Distributor
office 407-856-1564
toll free 800-887-6698
cell 321-663-5391
www.oilhelp.com
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L Vogt
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:13 PM
To: Teamgrumman List
Subject: engine won't start
Ok, I'm officially stumped.
I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from the switch to the mags.
Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs. Flew to Auburn.
Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedance between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied with pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied in the off position.
Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't start.
What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mel(at)becknet.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: engine won't start |
|
|
Also, have you checked the resistance from the mag primary winding to the airframe ground with the p-lead disconnected? Iy should be infinite. If not, it would be due to an internal short. That could affect both mags if they were installed incorrectly.
I assume you have already verified fuel at the carb (remove the air filter) during start. Also, it wouldn't hurt to pull the plugs an check for wetness or fouling.
-mel via cell
On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:24 AM, "George Douglas" <George(at)oilhelp.com (George(at)oilhelp.com)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
The only other thing that might be missing is compression or spark at the right time, providing that the spark and fuel you mentioned is adequate.
Best Regards,
George Douglas
Amsoil Distributor
office 407-856-1564
toll free 800-887-6698
cell 321-663-5391
www.oilhelp.com
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gary L Vogt
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:13 PM
To: Teamgrumman List
Subject: engine won't start
Ok, I'm officially stumped.
I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from the switch to the mags.
Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs. Flew to Auburn.
Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedance between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied with pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied in the off position.
Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't start.
What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
01234567
8
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mel(at)becknet.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:37 am Post subject: engine won't start |
|
|
Sorry, I missed that you checked fuel and spark already. If you get spark, mags are obviously not grounded out. Have you inspected all the plugs for fouling?
-mel via cell
On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Mel Beckman <mel(at)becknet.com (mel(at)becknet.com)> wrote:
[quote]Also, have you checked the resistance from the mag primary winding to the airframe ground with the p-lead disconnected? Iy should be infinite. If not, it would be due to an internal short. That could affect both mags if they were installed incorrectly.
I assume you have already verified fuel at the carb (remove the air filter) during start. Also, it wouldn't hurt to pull the plugs an check for wetness or fouling.
-mel via cell
On Mar 2, 2013, at 9:24 AM, "George Douglas" <George(at)oilhelp.com (George(at)oilhelp.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
The only other thing that might be missing is compression or spark at the right time, providing that the spark and fuel you mentioned is adequate.
Best Regards,
George Douglas
Amsoil Distributor
office 407-856-1564
toll free 800-887-6698
cell 321-663-5391
www.oilhelp.com
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Gary L Vogt
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 12:13 PM
To: Teamgrumman List
Subject: engine won't start
Ok, I'm officially stumped.
I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from the switch to the mags.
Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs. Flew to Auburn.
Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedance between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied with pressure on the switch from open to shorted Also, the impedance varied in the off position.
Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't start.
What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
01234567
8
|
9
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: engine won't start |
|
|
Gary .... you only need three things to start that engine .... fuel, air, ignition. And you know that ....
since everything you replaced involves the ignition ..... I'd make sure that:
The switch really does unground the P-lead ..... checked at the impulse mag.
The impulse mag makes the 'clank' noise as the prop is pulled over TDC ...... impulse is working and is timed right.
Pull a lead off an impulse-connected plug and check for spark as in the test above.
I think you'll find a problem by now but next comes fuel ......
Check for fuel leaking out the intake as you over-prime and/or clean the primer nozzles. Try pushing in the primer as it's being cranked.
Check in with the new Pope  .... I'm outta ideas ...... lemme know what you do find.
Linn
On 3/2/2013 12:12 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:
[quote] Ok, I'm officially stumped.
I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from the switch to the mags.
Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs. Flew to Auburn.
Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedance between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied with pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied in the off position.
Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't start.
What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/02/13 [b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:10 pm Post subject: engine won't start |
|
|
The plugs aren't oil fouled are they?
On Mar 2, 2013, at 11:12 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
Ok, I'm officially stumped.
I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from the switch to the mags.
Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs. Flew to Auburn.
Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedance between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied with pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied in the off position.
Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't start.
What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
[quote]
===================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
===================================
cs.com
===================================
matronics.com/contribution
===================================
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
|
| Posted: Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:44 pm Post subject: engine won't start |
|
|
Gary:
It sure sounds like there is a problem with the Mag Switch or the wiring behind the Mag Switch. There is an AD on some BENDIX Mag Switches.
When you say Mag failed at Mag Check.. How did it fail? Was it just a big drop in RPM or was it a total loss of the Mag?
I'm sure you know, without being there, there are too many variables.
Since there were many things changed the only thing you can do is check each thing that was changed/touched:
Spark plugs
Mag Wires - Hand trace each on the the proper spark plug.
Mag Harness Cap - Is it keyed to the Mag correctly.
Disconnect BOTH the P-leads - Start the engine. Does it start?
Now for the real far fetched possibilities:-
Is there fuel in both tanks?
Is there fuel flow from EACH of the tanks? I read of one guy that had fuel in both tanks but only flew off one tank - Then one day he switched tanks ONLY to find the fuel line for that tank was clogged.
Was the Fuel Selector Rebuild recently?
Any CARB issues? Fuel Filter, out of adjustment or Broken Cables/Linkage?
Boost pump - Clogged?
Primer Lines - Clogged?
Primer - In need of maintenance, Leaky O ring or no lube?
Back to the close fetched:-
This is my own person gripe against the FAA and manufactures - We have REDUNDANT systems on the plane for almost EVERYTHING - But they allow us to ATTEMPT to fly with ONLY ONE Impulse Mag.
Since the Mags were rebuilt - I would definitely look at them again.
I would also talk the owner into dual Impulse Mags.
MAGS:-
Timing - Pin Set position - Mag Gear IN the engine [I know way out there]
How does that Sherlock Homes quote go: Once you eliminate the impossible what ever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
=========================================
On Sat, Mar 2, 2013 at 12:12 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]Ok, I'm officially stumped.
I installed an engine in a plane with 1600 total time, 500 hours on LyCon prepped cylinders, rebuilt mags, new harness, replaced the P-lead wires from the switch to the mags.
Engine started right up. Flew great for 6+ hours.
Then, failed a right mag check at an airport 7 miles from Auburn. Engine was hard to start. Replaced the mag with a new mag. Same problem. Removed the P-lead. Engine was smooth. The engine analyzer showed good temps and EGTs. Flew to Auburn.
Troubleshot P-leads by disconnecting for the mags and testing the impedance between the P-lead and the ground. Noticed the right mag impedance varied with pressure on the switch from open to shorted. Also, the impedance varied in the off position.
Replaced the switch with known good switch. Double checked P-lead to ground. Tried to start the engine. Won't start.
Checked for fuel. Got fuel. Checked spark at plug. Got spark. Engine won't start.
What gives? Any ideas are welcome. I don't get it.
| Quote: |
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:03 am Post subject: Engine won't start |
|
|
Today we removed the plugs and checked the gaps. All plugs clean and a like tan color. Gaps at 0.018 to 0.019 inches on all plugs.
Checked compressions, 79, 78, 78, 77
Removed the mags. They go to Magneto Andy tomorrow.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: Engine won't start |
|
|
Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article in March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to timing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1361855698000&pg=32
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard.pdf
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this page
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on left magneto.
- Replace magneto - still rough
- Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
- Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10 hours later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is pulled back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and only the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have crappy fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad enough. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine runs fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it. Turn off 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well and the engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and now even with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the mixture every time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that it ignites and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replaced and now the engine runs fine."
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:04 am Post subject: Engine won't start |
|
|
More good things to check for Sac Sky Ranch:
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng16.htm
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BILL9725(at)AOL.COM
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:33 am Post subject: Engine won't start |
|
|
Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing the end of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to continue business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
Bill Stigile
In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te(at)att.net writes:
| Quote: | Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article in March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to timing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1361855698000&pg=32
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard.pdf
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this page
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on left magneto.
- Replace magneto - still rough
- Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
- Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10 hours later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is pulled back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and only the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have crappy fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad enough. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine runs fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it. Turn off 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well and the engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and now even with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the mixture every time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that it ignites and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replaced and now the engine runs fine."
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Discover
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:11 am Post subject: Engine won't start |
|
|
Do you know if their website will continue?
On Mar 4, 2013, at 9:32 AM, BILL9725(at)AOL.COM (BILL9725(at)AOL.COM) wrote:
Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing the end of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to continue business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
Bill Stigile
In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net) writes:
| Quote: | Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article in March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to timing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1361855698000&pg=32
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard.pdf
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this page
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on left magneto.
- Replace magneto - still rough
- Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
- Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10 hours later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is pulled back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and only the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have crappy fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad enough. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine runs fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it. Turn off 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well and the engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and now even with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the mixture every time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that it ignites and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replaced and now the engine runs fine."
|
[quote]
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BILL9725(at)AOL.COM
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:12 am Post subject: Engine won't start |
|
|
They are selling off all merchandise and not replacing anything so I would assume no.
Bill
In a message dated 3/4/2013 8:11:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te(at)att.net writes:
| Quote: | Do you know if their website will continue?
On Mar 4, 2013, at 9:32 AM, BILL9725(at)AOL.COM (BILL9725(at)AOL.COM) wrote:
Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing the end of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to continue business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
Bill Stigile
In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net) writes:
| Quote: | Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article in March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to timing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1361855698000&pg=32
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard.pdf
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this page
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on left magneto.
- Replace magneto - still rough
- Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
- Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10 hours later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is pulled back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and only the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have crappy fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad enough. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine runs fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it. Turn off 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well and the engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and now even with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the mixture every time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that it ignites and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replaced and now the engine runs fine."
|
| Quote: |
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
eamGrumman-List"' href='mip://0a660e20/3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
='mip://0a660e20/3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
n"' href='mip://0a660e20/3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:20 pm Post subject: Engine won't start |
|
|
Today.
Removed both mags from a customers plane and installed them in the Tiger. Started on 2 blades.
That means the overhauled mags are AFU.
At least we found ute problem.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:12 AM, BILL9725(at)AOL.COM (BILL9725(at)AOL.COM) wrote:
[quote] They are selling off all merchandise and not replacing anything so I would assume no. Ustomers
Bill
In a message dated 3/4/2013 8:11:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net) writes:
| Quote: | Do you know if their website will continue?
On Mar 4, 2013, at 9:32 AM, BILL9725(at)AOL.COM (BILL9725(at)AOL.COM) wrote:
Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing the end of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to continue business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
Bill Stigile
In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net) writes:
| Quote: | Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article in March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to timing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1361855698000&pg=32
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard.pdf
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this page
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on left magneto.
- Replace magneto - still rough
- Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
- Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10 hours later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is pulled back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and only the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have crappy fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad enough. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine runs fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it. Turn off 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well and the engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and now even with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the mixture every time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that it ignites and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replaced and now the engine runs fine."
|
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dmwhite(at)e3ra.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:31 pm Post subject: Engine won't start |
|
|
Get rid of right mag - go with electronic ignition.
Dean White (Tiger N81166)
Edmonds, WA 98026
From: owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-teamgrumman-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary L Vogt
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 10:20 PM
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engine won't start
Today.
Removed both mags from a customers plane and installed them in the Tiger. Started on 2 blades.
That means the overhauled mags are AFU.
At least we found ute problem.
Gary
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 4, 2013, at 8:12 AM, BILL9725(at)AOL.COM (BILL9725(at)AOL.COM) wrote:
| Quote: |
They are selling off all merchandise and not replacing anything so I would assume no. Ustomers
Bill
In a message dated 3/4/2013 8:11:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net) writes:
| Quote: |
Do you know if their website will continue?
On Mar 4, 2013, at 9:32 AM, BILL9725(at)AOL.COM (BILL9725(at)AOL.COM) wrote:
Want to mention in case anyone has not heard, Sac Sky Ranch is closing the end of this month, March. Owner is retiring and sons do not want to continue business! Very sad and leaves a hole in choices for everyone.
Bill Stigile
In a message dated 3/4/2013 6:55:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, 923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net) writes:
| Quote: |
Probably far fetched that this would apply here but Mike Busch's article in March 2013 Sport Aviation found a faulty Mag timing device that led to timing to be set too high causing hard starts and high CHT's
Read it here starting on page 30 lower right corner
http://www.sportaviationonline.org/sportaviation/201303/m3/Page.action?lm=1361855698000&pg=32
Again grasping at straws but
By chance did you check spark plug resistance?
http://www.chanceaviation.com/resources/ChanceAviation-Tempest-SparkPlugCard.pdf
Sacramento Sky Ranch may have some insight on the last paragraph of this page
http://www.sacskyranch.com/eng37.htm
Where he points to the carb having too lean a mixture:
"Nothing you do will fix it. Mag check -- engine coughs and sputters on left magneto.- Replace magneto - still rough
- Check ignition harness - checks fine - still rough
- Replace "P" lead - still rough
So lets replace the harness "just in case" --Success engine runs fine. 10 hours later problem returns!
One other item interest; can't lean engine, as soon as the mixture is pulled back the engine sputters.
So what's the solution?
The big hint here is the mixture control. It points to the carburetor and only the carburetor. But why just on the left magneto? Lets say you have crappy fuel atomization and fuel distribution. Not real bad, but just bad enough. With two spark plugs firing it ignites a leaner mixture and the engine runs fine. But lets impar the ignition system slightly by weakening it. Turn off 1 magneto and now try to ignite the mixture - it can't do it as well and the engine coughs and shudders. Lean out the mixture just slightly and now even with sparks flying out of two spark plugs it can't ignite the mixture every time. It misses a few strokes then enough fuel has gathered that it ignites and burns and then the cycle repeats. The carburetor nozzle was replaced and now the engine runs fine."
|
012345678 |
901
st href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
234567890123456789012345
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics TeamGrumman-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
