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mid-door latch - YERLY

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f.kyle(at)sympatico.ca
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:26 am Post subject: mid-door latch - YERLY

          May I just second every word Bud Yerly made in his recent email message of the same Subject. It is obvious that here again is another ‘old hand’ with bags of time and a wise attitude. His advice is typical of people who have (at one time or another) placed their faith in a mechanical device and “been lied to”. The loss of a door in the Europa is not worth hanging your hat on a possibly-worn or mis-adjusted or vibration-ravaged tiny piece of tin when your own two eyes and hands are less easily fooled.

            That’s a ‘saver’, Bud.....

Ferg

C-FFGG

 [quote][b]

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budyerly(at)msn.com
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:03 pm Post subject: mid-door latch - YERLY

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  If it says automatic (definition:  will fail at the most inappropriate  time when you need it)

 If it says decreases pilot workload  (definition: sucks your head  into the cockpit and forces you to memorize stupid button  drills) 

 If it says add situational awareness (definition: adds clutter to your life  and overwhelms your senses)

 If it says increases efficiency/range (cause: you may overstress your  bladder.)

  If it says fail safe (action:  buy life insurance)



 If it says ANR (Almost Never  Remember hearing it fail... which means you don't hear the  problem before the engine quit)

  

 Sorry for being so sarcastic.

 But "Been There" "Done That" "Got the T-shirt"

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

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Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: mid-door latch - YERLY

Hi All.

I have the inner door handle guarded by a plate, and I have painted the closed shadow of the door handle in Red on the outside,

I have greased the shoe bolts where they enter the frame, this made a world of difference in taking the strain off the door handle, they close feather light now, but also open feather light.

However with the doors properly closed, how far should the shoe bolt go into the frame,bearing in mind there is a gap between door and frame, and what are the chances of the actual door flexing under airflow so the bolts could spring out you only need one to spring . 

Are they any tel tell signs that could point to this happening, the possibilities  in turbulence or a dive to VNE.



Alan

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JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 391
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 3:34 am Post subject: Re: mid-door latch - YERLY

When I was busy completing my doors about 17 years ago, this gap between the door forward and rear edges and the door frame made me unhappy. My solution, when bonding in the bushes for shoot bolts into the door, was to make them project enough to almost bridge the gap. Then I built up a flox/redux fillet around the projecting portion of each bush to ensure the security of the bushes. Finally I cut the pushrods to suitable lengths to make the shoot bolts engage fully into the door frames.



As regards the truth of Bud's advice re cockpit gadgets, yeah, absolutely, right-on, couldn't agree more. I started flying for my living in 1967 and I'm still going strong until I retire in 2014. I've seen more gadgets than I care to remember and they're mostly helpful when flying IFR, but could be lethal when VFR if you allow them to reduce your lookout.

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Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:26 am Post subject: Re: mid-door latch - YERLY

Hi Jon.

I believe there is quite a lot of suction on the doors in flight. 

If i were a builder that's exactly what i would have done.

I have quit a gap between the door and frame, this most probable is the correct gap, but i don,t like it.

A way of reducing this gap would be to place a 1/4" thick plate with a hole for the shoe bolt in it, this plate being fixed by 2 screws above and 2 screws below the bolt hole.

Has any one done this.



Alan

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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:27 am Post subject: mid-door latch - YERLY

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Alan,

 I see no one answered your email as yet.  Ref Chapter 34 and 35 of the  build manual:

 Test data:

 The door flex at 130 Kts and 3.8 Gs is estimated at 1/4 inch total or about  1/8 inch from each side max ( I really could only see the front bolt door  movement) measured without door seals during my LSA testing of the Vortex  Generators.  Non scientific really.  I just removed the seals and put  a piece of tape on the door and marked the canopy line on the door and observed  for movement in flight.

  

 My test also allowed for a non glued in cover over the latch handle,  and a basic door without the thick wide door option assuring me that if the door  flexed, I would see it.  The VGs allow a significantly higher AOA so I had  to look at another Vs as well as a new Vman or manuevering speed to make sure  there were no surprises anywhere in the airframe up to Vne and there were  none...

  

 Door guide distances to check for:

 The shoot bolt install is in your build manual and on line of course.   When built properly the distance from tip to tip of the shoot bolts when in the  unlatched position is supposed to be 952mm, but see below as I seem to have  a bit more tinkering to do.  The practical minimum distance for  the un-tapered portion of the shoot bolt when  installed into the door frame guide is 3/8 to 1/2 inch  penetration.  If it is not, rebuild them.

  

 Install / repair techniques:

 I personally install the shoot bolts and rods to give me 1/2 inch (12.5 mm)  out of the door shoot bolt guide as a minimum, and the tip of the bolt is flush  with my guide in the door when retracted.  This bit of extra fitting  keeps the door from wanting to bow out a bit and assures me of a solid latch  even with someone or thing pushing or sucking outward on the door.

  

 Keep in mind that during install of the guides in the fuselage, they are  to be nearly a contact fit between the door guide and fuselage  guide of no more slop than 1-2 mm total ( I use a 1/32 inch thick  washer as a placement spacer when fitting the fuselage guides to assure a  tight but acceptable closing fit).  Since the shoot guide in the  aircraft should have at least 3/8 or 10mm of bolt resting inside it when  latched, to check it, use the butt end of your vernier caliper or  similar, stuck in the rear of the bolt to measure your shoot bolt installed  distance into the guide, accounting for the taper of the bolt head of  course.  If yours does not meet the specs, order a new set of door rods and  make it right.  A technique is to make small adjustments to the rod in the  construction (before drilling the bolt,  to get the bolt extension  distance right yet allow for full retraction... Then trim and round  the rod end for proper movement of the tapered bolt.  Some rebating of  the door itself may be necessary to get the guide to stay in alignment.   If you end up a bit long on the bolt, a bit of file work on the bolt tip is  OK but cleanup of debris is essential.

  

 The prudent builder/craftsman measures twice, fits it many times, then  drills once to install the guide to the rod for a perfect fit.  Polish up  the shoot bolts, assure your pins do not protrude and drag in the guide, then  install the door guides carefully so as to keep the door shoot bolt perfectly  straight on extension as per the manual.  Done properly, the doors  close easily, and latch with very little force even with the door seals  installed.

  

 Regards,

 Bud Yerly

 Tech Support.  

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Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:58 am Post subject: Re: mid-door latch - YERLY

Hi Bud.

Many thanks for your information, as i am checking a built aircraft,

If i close the door with the handle in latched position, and on the frame i should see 3/8 to 1/2" of the "round shoe bolt rod" entering the door frame,

ignoring the tapperd length.



Alan

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