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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
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 Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:31 pm Post subject: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit |
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Bob,
I have two 55watt HID for landing lights. I bought the following flasher
which failed after a few minutes of run time. See,
http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/ETHFSS-SP.pdf
I then ordered the heavy duty version, but had the same result. See,
http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/images/ETHDSS-SP%20Fold%20A.pdf
I now see B and C sells one (which I plan to order) and notice that the
wiring diagram (when using LED or HID) has a couple 75 ohm resistors added
to the circuit. I don't know what these are for but wonder if they are to
protect the solid state flasher. If so, perhaps I should have used
something similar with my first product? Can you describe the function of
the resistors?
Thanks.
Bevan
RV7A
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:25 am Post subject: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit |
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At 12:29 AM 3/12/2013, you wrote:
Bob,
I have two 55watt HID for landing lights. I bought the following flasher
which failed after a few minutes of run time. See,
http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/docs/ETHFSS-SP.pdf
I then ordered the heavy duty version, but had the same result. See,
http://sos-production.s3.amazonaws.com/images/ETHDSS-SP%20Fold%20A.pdf
I now see B and C sells one (which I plan to order) and notice that the
wiring diagram (when using LED or HID) has a couple 75 ohm resistors added
to the circuit. I don't know what these are for but wonder if they are to
protect the solid state flasher. If so, perhaps I should have used
something similar with my first product? Can you describe the function of
the resistors?
Are these truly (H)ight(I)intensity(D)ischarge lamps?
In other words, do they come with ballasts to convert
the 14v DC to high voltages necessary for their
ignition and operation? If so, have they been characterized
for performance in a wig-wag system? ALL HID lamps have
a 'warm up' period of 30 seconds to a minute after
first power wherein their light output increases and
stabilizes. They probably should not be flashed
during this period of time. After that, it seems that
flashing is tolerated well and their operating temperatures
stay adequately warm with a 50% duty cycle of operation.
If your 'lamps' were killing solid state flashers
I suspect inductive reaction from the ballasts
produced spikes that exceed voltage ratings on the
flasher's output transistors. It's unlikely that
the transistors failed due to an over current
situation. The fact that they ran for several
minutes suggests a "pecking away" at the transistors
with a succession of events.
A relay flasher like the B&C product would not
be vulnerable to this kind of failure. The resistors
were added to accommodate the flasher's original
design goals to service incandescent lamps.
The flasher would not function with LED lamps.
HID lamps are a third and entirely different
issue. You probably WILL need the resistors.
Solid state flashing would be preferred but
you'd want to identify root cause for the failures
and fix it. The open source flasher we did
for leds is fitted with spike suppression
on the output transistors. This product might
do the job for you. I could send you one to
try out. But in any case, I would always operated
the lamps at Full-ON for about a minute before
reverting to the wig-wag mode.
It occurs to me that we could do a HID version
of this flasher that automatically forces a
one-minute warm up period before allowing wig-wag
operations to commence. I'd have to consult my
software guru on that. In the mean time, you
could conduct the experiment to see if my design
goals for the LED/Incandescent technologies
are sufficiently robust to handle your HID
fixtures. If you want to try the relay-flasher
from B&C, DO add the resistors.
Actually, I have a couple of HID conversion
kits that I tried on my Kia last year and
reverted back to incandescent. I'll drag
those out and see how they behave on my bench
first.
Bob . . .
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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:09 am Post subject: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit |
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Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Yes my "lamps" are true HID in that they have the ballasts.
I have measured the current draw (to the ballast) after the first flasher
failed. On a digital multimeter they start at about 7 amp as I recall and
settle down at around 5 amp. There may be a spike that my meter doesn't
show. The flasher paper work says it is good for 9amp (14 amp for the heavy
duty). I have failed one of each now.
My procedure was to turn on the lamps in steady state first and then switch
to flashing mode after they were very bright (hot). This was about 10-15
seconds or so but definitely not a minute. This was going to be my operating
procedure. Land and take off with full steady lights. Flash for enroute
cruising.
According to the manufacture of the flashers, they are not
designed/recommended for HID although the paperwork doesn't specifically say
not to use with HID. Some on VAF use the this flasher with 35 watt HID with
no reported problems that I have seen.
The flashers have multiple flash patterns. Most way too quick for the HID.
I was only using the slow wigwag version. 1.9 flashes per second as I
recall. The flasher/HID combination did work well in producing a nice flash
while it lasted.
I like the HID (very bright and lower current draw), and I think flashing is
a great anti-collision feature. I'm really wanting a flasher that can take
the "abuse" if that is what is causing the failures. This is why I'm
interested in the B and C flasher. But when I read the spec, it says it's a
solid state flasher. This make me think it may fail in the same way as the
others. The resistors were the difference.
I'm willing to try whatever you recommend.
Bevan
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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
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| Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:23 pm Post subject: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit |
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Bob,
I had not considered a spike coming back from the input of the ballast.
Could flashing the HID's (properly pre-heated or not) damage other
electronic equipment onboard the typical aircraft, ie expensive radios and
Nav stuff?
I would like to try the flasher from B and C.
Can you point me to a source for suitable resistors?
I look forward to the results of your experimentation with the HIDs.
Thanks
Bevan
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:22 am Post subject: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit |
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At 01:21 AM 3/13/2013, you wrote:
Bob,
I had not considered a spike coming back from the input of the ballast.
Could flashing the HID's (properly pre-heated or not) damage other
electronic equipment onboard the typical aircraft, ie expensive radios and
Nav stuff?
No. The 'spike' would be an artifact of
inductive features in the design of the ballast.
Just as the spike suppression diode across
a contactor coil protects the controlling
switch, I suspect that similar measures
for interfacing a solid state flasher with
HID ballasts has a similar makeup. The
risks are limited to the controlling device;
FETS in the controller or in the case of
battery contactors, the master switch.
The worry that such spikes represent any hazard
to the rest of the system is a myth borne out
of misunderstanding nonetheless widely circulated.
I would like to try the flasher from B and C.
Can you point me to a source for suitable resistors?
http://tinyurl.com/a62m9mx
Check with local electronics suppliers too. This
is not a rare part. 75 ohms, 5W, wire wound.
Depending on your installation, you might find
these more attractive. They have mounting ears.
http://tinyurl.com/akqxrd7
I look forward to the results of your experimentation with the HIDs.
Keep in mind that you should operate your
lamps continuously for about a minute before
you revert to wig-wag mode.
Bob . . .
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hotwheels
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:03 am Post subject: Re: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit |
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Hi,
I have two 55w HID landing lights (P/N MR16) sourced from rigidindustries.com and the "low-tech" flasher obtained from B&C. I was only able to get flashing going by using the load resistors (from ebay). Works great so long as you give the HIDs adequate warm up time.
Cheers,
Jay
N433RV RV-10
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| Description: |
| HID wig-wag with load resistors. |
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fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit |
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Jay,
The website you site doesn't show HID, only LED. Can you confirm which HID
your have, and approximately how many hours of run time with the flasher so
far?
Thanks
Bevan
--
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hotwheels
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:55 am Post subject: Re: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit |
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They may have discontinued HID sales, and the name changed since I purchased... Used to be planelights.com. I've been running them for <10 hours total.
| fvalarm(at)rapidnet.net wrote: | Jay,
The website you site doesn't show HID, only LED. Can you confirm which HID
your have, and approximately how many hours of run time with the flasher so
far?
Thanks
Bevan
-- |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:44 pm Post subject: WigWag's resistors for HID circuit |
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At 12:03 PM 3/13/2013, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi,
I have two 55w HID landing lights (P/N MR16) sourced from
rigidindustries.com and the "low-tech" flasher obtained from B&C. I
was only able to get flashing going by using the load resistors
(from ebay). Works great so long as you give the HIDs adequate warm up time.
|
Good information! Thanks for sharing.
Bob . . .
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