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Weight and Balance Scales

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duanefamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:41 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

In the USA, what are people using with regard to scales when they do their weight and balance calculations? What capacity is needed?

    

   Mike Duane

   Redding, California

   Europa XS Conventional Gear

  [quote][b]

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:24 am Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

Mike- 

  

I found a "fat peoples" scale on the internet that goes to 440 lbs.  I can get you the name if you need it.  Then found someone at the aitport that has race car scales I can borrow. 

  

Jim Puglise 

A-283

---

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

Mike,



Try balances.com if you wish to purchase scales.  You can search by weight range and sort by price.

Just off the top of the head (and it's getting pretty thin up there), for a conventional gear, two 500 pounders and a 100 pounder should be adequate unless you have a really heavy Europa.

For instance, you can get a Siltec PS500L digital scale for $169.95 and the Siltec PS100L digital scale is $149.95.  That's $489.85 for the three you'd need.

If that's too much for your wallet right now, check your local EAA chapter, they may have a set of scales to loan/rent.  Or find other homebuilders on your airport who may have access to scales for loan/rent.

 Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Tri-Gear, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S Prop

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=60232

http://www.biplaneforumgallery.com/index.php?cat=10046

Europa Flying!

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117





On Mar 20, 2011, at 1:36, DuaneFamly(at)aol.com (DuaneFamly(at)aol.com) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 

   In the USA, what are people using with regard to scales when they do their weight and balance calculations? What capacity is needed?

    

   Mike Duane

   Redding, California

   Europa XS Conventional Gear

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 6:48 am Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

Mike,



I played on balances.com for a bit and on a 400 lb search I found a Siltec 440LB GS1 digital scale for $78.95.  It's a bathroom scale but three of them ($236.85) would probably do the job as long as your aircraft is under 900 lbs and you are careful getting the mains onto the scale.

 Bob Borger







On Mar 20, 2011, at 1:36, DuaneFamly(at)aol.com (DuaneFamly(at)aol.com) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 

   In the USA, what are people using with regard to scales when they do their weight and balance calculations? What capacity is needed?

    

   Mike Duane

   Redding, California

   Europa XS Conventional Gear

kjburns(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:26 am Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

Hi,

  

 One set of scales would do with two spacer blocks under the wheels same height as scale, weigh at one wheel then either with  jacks or 3 ramps move the scale from wheel to wheel , replacing with a block to keep the a/c level , recording your figures as you go on your balance sheet.

 (easier to use 3 blocks if only using one jack so you can lift remove scale lower on spare block then move jack to next wheel)

  

 Kevin 



 

   From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sunday, 20 March, 2011 14:44:45

Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Scales



Mike,  



 I played on balances.com for a bit and on a 400 lb search I found a Siltec 440LB GS1 digital scale for $78.95.  It's a bathroom scale but three of them ($236.85) would probably do the job as long as your aircraft is under 900 lbs and you are careful getting the mains onto the scale.

 



              Bob Borger





 

  On Mar 20, 2011, at 1:36, DuaneFamly(at)aol.com (DuaneFamly(at)aol.com) wrote:

 [quote]



 In the USA, what are people using with regard to scales when they do their weight and balance calculations? What capacity is needed?

  

 Mike Duane

 Redding, California

 Europa XS Conventional Gear

[b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

I tried digital bathroom scales, No good, they auto turn off after less than a minute and the solid state stuff is black box and can't be adjusted

Graham

From: Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sunday, 20 March, 2011 14:44:45

Subject: Re: Weight and Balance Scales

Mike,

I played on balances.com for a bit and on a 400 lb search I found a Siltec 440LB GS1 digital scale for $78.95.  It's a bathroom scale but three of them ($236.85) would probably do the job as long as your aircraft is under 900 lbs and you are careful getting the mains onto the scale.

 Bob Borger

On Mar 20, 2011, at 1:36, DuaneFamly(at)aol.com (DuaneFamly(at)aol.com)  wrote:

[quote]

   In the USA, what are people using with regard to scales when they do their weight and balance calculations? What capacity is needed?

   Mike Duane

   Redding, California

   Europa XS Conventional Gear

[b]

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:40 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  I hate to but in, but weight and balance is not a sorta, kinda, maybe about  this many pounds measurement.  We all spend hours making sure our aircraft  is within .1 degree and exact sweep and incidence and then weigh the aircraft  and measure the balance points with a grease pencil and a bath scale certified  by our last physical weigh in.  

  

 I know calibrated scales are expensive, but go to your airports certified  weight and balance professional or if you insist on doing it yourself, go to the  racing community and find a set of certified scales of the proper size and range  and rent them or borrow them for a day..  Load cells are best, but I  must admit some spring types are quite accurate.  It amazes me that the car  guys and go cart enthusiasts have superb scales.  I have seen them for as  low as $500 new.  I know this as I lived next door to a sprint car builder  and he had the neatest stuff.

  

 Use a good level, plumb bobs, and tape measures and be accurate.   Follow the operators handbook instructions.  I recently had a plane in the  shop that was touted as only 875 lbs, using bath scales.  The actual weight  was 904 and his CG was off by a half and inch because he used the dimensions in  the book instead of measuring his own plane.  Luckily our little bird is  tolerable of many things, including loading and weight and balance errors.   Putting a 2 X 6 between two scales can work, but verify with accurate weights  and get a good tare of the scales.  Make sure the weigh ins are repeatable  and use a known set of weights to verify the scales range and accuracy.  If  using two scales with a beam between, verify the positon of the beam and where  the tire center will sit.

  

 It costs me a couple of hours and a couple hundred bucks for Walter Hudson  (FAA Certified weight and balance tech, A&P and homebuilder) to come by  and weigh the planes in my shop.  Dead on, certified, and repeatable  results.

  

 Kevin, I do the same thing.  I built ramps and blocks the exact height  of the scales and of course from plumb bobs down the cowl line, the axles and  then careful measurements to get my distances for the moments.   Jigs like this make things simple.  For the mono I must admit, to being  extremely lazy and use a finger to balance the wing by pushing up on the heavy  wing and down on the light wing and average the difference.  I have  not found a mono more than a couple of pounds out of perfect balance.

  

 Bud Yerly  

  

 [quote]   ---

duanefamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:59 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

Bud,

    

   But in, but in......I have a lot of respect for your opinion.....so I will error towards the "closer to perfect and repeatable" measurements. It'll be my butt up there, and boy would I be pissed at myself if I killed myself.  Thanks for your input.

    

   Mike

 

 

   

 

 

   --

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:01 am Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

Hi Bud,

    

   How much I concur with your advice re weighing.  

   Some years ago I bought (from Spruce) a set of scales said to be suitable for aircraft weighing.  They turned out to be ordinary spring operated bathroom scales dressed up with a fancy system designed to half or third the load on each scale to bring them within weighing range.

   I weighed one aircraft with this equipment and was not satisfied with the result so did it again with the same care and ended up with discrepancies of  up to 10 % between results (just move the a/c an inch to one side of exact centre on the pan and see the weight change (scary). I now have a set of calibrated electronic scales from Sun'n'Fun.  They proved just how bad the bathroom scales realy are. On these electronic scales you can put a calibrated weight literally anywhere on the pan and it reads exactly the same correct figure.  Try this test with your bathroom scales and watch the results.  This test alone should prove how unreliable cheap scales are.  By the way it is interesting to note that good electronic scales are calibrated and then even biased acording to the lattitude where the scales are to be used.

   Yes, it is yours and your families life you are talking about.  Thanks Bub for your wise input.

    

   Pete Jeffers

 

 

   

 

 

   --

Maathai Wangari

Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 4

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Scales

Much scales are available in USA which you can buy or get on rent. If your wallet allows to buy quality digital scale then Ebay is best to access all ranges of scales. In balance calculations there are Table Top Balances and Pocket Scales that can buy anyone anytime from Ebay.

_________________
Load Cells

Last edited by Maathai Wangari on Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

havi333
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Scales

Hello guys..I weight my bike by the scale and after that i also balance he scale of the bike its weight is less then the original weight more parts add into the bike and after balance the scale its is equally.

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 391
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:00 am Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Scales

What's different about doing the weight and balance operation for a trigear, compared with a monowheel? I'm just approaching the end of a mono- to tri- conversion and I've booked my inspector to come and do the business later this month.



He's done many weighings for many aircraft types and has all the necessary kit. But I have the original instructions for this task in my old Europa Owners Manual stating that the 0 datum is at the forward face of the cowling, whereas these days the correct position is measured 29.25" forward from the rear edge of the cowling joggle in the fuselage.



Apart from that we'll need to measure the stations of the wheel centres aft of the 0 datum and he'll use all that info including weight measured at each wheel to make his calculations.



All I'm asking you kind people out there is to warn me of any "gotchas" so that I don't embarrass myself when he arrives from 60 miles away. Like what essential items should I provide? I already have realised that there's no dedicated jacking point near each main wheel axle. In the absence of any better suggestion, I'm going to make a little steel bracket which bolts on through the spare holes in the brake torque plate and has a welded projection for a trolley jack to lift against. Is this how it's done?



Yours in eager anticipation. Jonathan

richard collings

Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 73
Location: warwickshire england

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:41 am Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

Hi Jonathan

You will need to get the plane sitting with the horizontal datum set to 

zero, I found that some 6x12in pieces of 1/2 inch chip board were useful to 

pack up under my main wheels to achieve this. As for special jacks, I just 

got under the wing on the side to be lifted and put my back against the 

underside of the wing and lifted, remember its not going to be too heavy I 

hope! Best of luck Richard



--

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:47 pm Post subject: Weight and Balance Scales

Jonathan,



I made ramps 1 meter long the height of the scales to allow me to roll my tri up on them.  When I did, I found out that it wasn't quite level fore/aft, that I had to raise the mains another 1/2 in or so.  I made a 1/2" high stand for the mains scales and added a 1/2" stick under the end of the ramps to match heights.  Now when I roll the aircraft up on the scales it's nice and level.  I assume that you have the XS Tri Owners Manual with the W&B procedures and calculations?  If not, download from Europa.  It's pretty straight forward.  I have an XL spreadsheet for W&B and can send it along if you wish.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Mar 14, 2013, at 7:00 AM, jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:






What's different about doing the weight and balance operation for a trigear, compared with a monowheel? I'm just approaching the end of a mono- to tri- conversion and I've booked my inspector to come and do the business later this month.



He's done many weighings for many aircraft types and has all the necessary kit. But I have the original instructions for this task in my old Europa Owners Manual stating that the 0 datum is at the forward face of the cowling, whereas these days the correct position is measured 29.25" forward from the rear edge of the cowling joggle in the fuselage.



Apart from that we'll need to measure the stations of the wheel centres aft of the 0 datum and he'll use all that info including weight measured at each wheel to make his calculations.



All I'm asking you kind people out there is to warn me of any "gotchas" so that I don't embarrass myself when he arrives from 60 miles away. Like what essential items should I provide? I already have realised that there's no dedicated jacking point near each main wheel axle. In the absence of any better suggestion, I'm going to make a little steel bracket which bolts on through the spare holes in the brake torque plate and has a welded projection for a trolley jack to lift against. Is this how it's done?



Yours in eager anticipation. Jonathan





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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396230#396230

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 391
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Scales

Hi Richard and Bob,



Thanks for the tips and advice. I have also looked at the info on the Europa website, which seems quite similar to what is published in my copy of the Owners Manual. My inspector has plenty of experience and will no doubt cope, in spite of my best efforts. Good to have your help.

JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 391
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Scales

Moved to a different subject heading..

Morkel

Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 1

Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Weight and Balance Scales

Digital scale is best way to control over you diet as well as on your body weight. I have bought one a few months ago from ebay which have many features with affordable price that i need. You must try one of them according to your needs.

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