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LNelson

Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 13

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:07 pm Post subject: Engine Question

I have recently purchased a set of 601 HD plans.  Before I start building my wife wants me to come up with a budget for the project.  As such one thing that will drastically change this budget is the engine selection.  Right now I am torn between two choices.  First would be a VW conversion, second would be a Lycoming 0-235.



any thoughts?



Larry Nelson

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:37 pm Post subject: Engine Question

Hi Larry,



I agree with your wife.  The engine is most likely to be the most 

expensive part of your project. The good news is you should put off 

buying the engine until your plane is nearly ready for it.  That way if 

you don't complete your project (a common outcome for home built 

aircraft) you won't buy an engine you can't use.



I am not very familiar with the HD since I built and completed an XL.  I 

suspect the VW conversion family would be very low power for your 

plane.  The O-235 or O-200 would probably be sufficient for power but 

very heavy.  There are many other choices.  Perhaps your best choice for 

now would be to consider a low time O-200 or O-235 for your budget and 

then get serious about what engine to use when you finish building your 

kit.  That will probably be many years from now.  Meanwhile you an keep 

an eye out for other Zodiac builders and see what they used and how they 

like it.  You might also get demo rides to help with your choice.



Good luck,



Paul

Camas, WA

On 3/19/2013 1:07 PM, LNelson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have recently purchased a set of 601 HD plans.  Before I start building my wife wants me to come up with a budget for the project.  As such one thing that will drastically change this budget is the engine selection.  Right now I am torn between two choices.  First would be a VW conversion, second would be a Lycoming 0-235.



 any thoughts?



 Larry Nelson





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396597#396597

erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:32 pm Post subject: Engine Question

I have a thought...try a Jabiru 3300. I have a Zodiac 601XL-B with

a 3300 and it is very powerful, but not too much for the plane. I have

thirteen hours on it, now and it is great!!



On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 3:07 PM, LNelson <lk.nelson(at)juno.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have recently purchased a set of 601 HD plans.  Before I start building my wife wants me to come up with a budget for the project.  As such one thing that will drastically change this budget is the engine selection.  Right now I am torn between two choices.  First would be a VW conversion, second would be a Lycoming 0-235.



 any thoughts?



 Larry Nelson





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396597#396597



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carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: Engine Question

This is a very nice Zodie, Erwin

I am trying to decide between a 2200 and a 3300 - obviously the 3300 is preferred from the performance point of view, but is the performance improvement worth the extra $ ?

Comments, anyone?

Carlos

CH601-HD, plans

On 19 March 2013 17:31, Erwin Beckman <erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com (erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  [quote]   I have a thought...try a Jabiru 3300. I have a Zodiac 601XL-B with

 a 3300 and it is very powerful, but not too much for the plane. I have

 thirteen hours on it, now and it is great!!

 On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 3:07 PM, LNelson <lk.nelson(at)juno.com (lk.nelson(at)juno.com)> wrote:

 > --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "LNelson" <lk.nelson(at)juno.com (lk.nelson(at)juno.com)>

 >

 > I have recently purchased a set of 601 HD plans.  Before I start building my wife wants me to come up with a budget for the project.  As such one thing that will drastically change this budget is the engine selection.  Right now I am torn between two choices.  First would be a VW conversion, second would be a Lycoming 0-235.

   >

 > any thoughts?

 >

 > Larry Nelson

 >

 >

 >

[b]

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:01 pm Post subject: Engine Question

Hi Carlos,

     

     Like all other decisions about airplanes the answer is "It depends".

     

     A 2200 is probably enough power for a Zodiac, even an XL, if you are     happy with minimal performance.  The larger 3300 will produce a     little faster cruise, but the real difference will show up in take     off and climb performance.  Either one will give you great fuel     consumption - especially if you are easy on the throttle.

     

     The other consideration is the engine weight.  A Zodiac XL with 3300     (mine) comes out initially with the CG exactly in the middle of the     envelope.  This is the engine the model was designed to use.  If you     use a lighter engine the CG will move toward the rear.  With a     heavier engine it will move toward the nose.

     

     A nose heavy airplane flies just fine but is not very nimble.  A     tail heavy plane can present real problems with stalls, spins, and     airspeed stability.

     

     Good luck.

     

     Paul

     Camas, WA

     

     On 3/19/2013 2:45 PM, Carlos Sa wrote:

     

     [quote]This is a very nice Zodie, Erwin

       

       I am trying to decide between a 2200 and a 3300 - obviously the       3300 is preferred from the performance point of view, but is the       performance improvement worth the extra $ ?

       

       Comments, anyone?

       

       Carlos

       CH601-HD, plans

       

       On 19 March 2013 17:31, Erwin Beckman <erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com (erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com)>         wrote:

          	  Quote: 	
		     I have a           thought...try a Jabiru 3300. I have a Zodiac 601XL-B with

           a 3300 and it is very powerful, but not too much for the           plane. I have

           thirteen hours on it, now and it is great!!

           

           On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 3:07 PM, LNelson <lk.nelson(at)juno.com (lk.nelson(at)juno.com)>           wrote:

           > --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "LNelson" <lk.nelson(at)juno.com (lk.nelson(at)juno.com)>

           >

           > I have recently purchased a set of 601 HD plans.  Before           I start building my wife wants me to come up with a budget for           the project.  As such one thing that will drastically change           this budget is the engine selection.  Right now I am torn           between two choices.  First would be a VW conversion, second           would be a Lycoming 0-235.

           >

           > any thoughts?

           >

           > Larry Nelson

           >

           >

           >

         

	
     [b]

Brad(at)ocbis.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:29 pm Post subject: Engine Question

Check out the Viking conversion (Vikingaircraftengines.com). 110 HP, only a

little heavier than the 3300, modern technology (FADAC, no carbs or

mixture), based on Honda's cylinder Fit and outboard engine.  Very nice

price and customer service.

Brad 

--

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:51 pm Post subject: Engine Question

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Lycomings, Jabirus, and their like are beautiful engines, and if you're  willing to drop somewhere around twenty K, they're a good bet. Volkswagen is  nice, but might not give you as much power as you'd like.  But, before you  make up your mind, you might want to have a look at Corvair. Yeah, THAT corvair.   An air-cooled, six cylinder, opposed, direct drive  engine able to  give you something between 100 and 110 horsepower, for way less than Lycs,  Jabs, etc., and way smoother than a four, can put you way ahead of the budget  game.  Go look up www.flycorvair, and see what William Wynne has  to offer. You can pick up a Corvair engine for around $250 or less, put a couple  of grand into WW's parts, get some from Clark's Corvairs, and make SWMBO  (She Who Must Be Obeyed)  smile. If you're not an engine guy, you can lay  out somewhere around  ten grand, and WW builds and test runs it for you.   If you just need an eye over your shoulder, you bring your pile of parts  to Corvair College, and you go home with an engine that's been built, test run,  and blessed by WW.  Go thou, and take yer choice....

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 [quote]   ---

JohnDRead(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: Engine Question

It depends on the elevations you will be flying at. Close to sea level the  2200 will be adequate. If you live at 7000 ft elevation at I do in Colorado  the 3300 is a better solution. The six should also be smoother than the  four cylinder unit. 

  

 Regards,  John



CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300



Cell: 719-494-4567

Home:  303-648-3261   

  In a message dated 3/19/2013 3:47:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  carlossa52(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  This is    a very nice Zodie, Erwin



I am trying to decide between a 2200 and a    3300 - obviously the 3300 is preferred from the performance point of view, but    is the performance improvement worth the extra $ ?



Comments,    anyone?



Carlos

CH601-HD, plans



   On 19 March 2013 17:31, Erwin Beckman <erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com (erwinfbeckman(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

    	  Quote: 	
		     I have a thought...try a Jabiru 3300. I have      a Zodiac 601XL-B with

a 3300 and it is very powerful, but not too much      for the plane. I have

thirteen hours on it, now and it is      great!!



On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 3:07 PM, LNelson <lk.nelson(at)juno.com (lk.nelson(at)juno.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		        --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "LNelson" <lk.nelson(at)juno.com (lk.nelson(at)juno.com)>



      I have recently purchased a set of 601 HD plans.  Before I start      building my wife wants me to come up with a budget for the project.  As      such one thing that will drastically change this budget is the engine      selection.  Right now I am torn between two choices.  First would      be a VW conversion, second would be a Lycoming 0-235.



 any      thoughts?



 Larry    Nelson




	




 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith601-List

s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	




 [quote][b]

larrycmcfarland(at)gmail.
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: Engine Question

Larry,

I'd mention that I used a Subaru for 7 years and thought it was a great

economic engine and it was very reliable once understood.

It was originally designed to be an aircraft engine. (reference

macsmachine.com  and engine page)

My first choice after that would be the Corvair as it too is economic, a bit

faster, but a great engine that is simple too.



Larry McFarland 601HDS - Cherokee 



--

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:30 pm Post subject: Engine Question

That's part of the reason I asked the question. I live in the Montreal area: mostly flat, around ~160 ft...



On 19 March 2013 20:08,  <JohnDRead(at)aol.com (JohnDRead(at)aol.com)> wrote:

  [quote]     It depends on the elevations you will be flying at. Close to sea level the  2200 will be adequate. If you live at 7000 ft elevation at I do in Colorado  the 3300 is a better solution. The six should also be smoother than the  four cylinder unit. 

  

 Regards,  John



CH701 - Colorado - Jabiru 3300



Cell: 719-494-4567

Home:  303-648-3261   

  In a message dated 3/19/2013 3:47:45 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  carlossa52(at)gmail.com (carlossa52(at)gmail.com) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  This is    a very nice Zodie, Erwin



I am trying to decide between a 2200 and a    3300 - obviously the 3300 is preferred from the performance point of view, but    is the performance improvement worth the extra $ ?



Comments,    anyone?



Carlos

CH601-HD, plans

	


[b]

jlatimer1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:20 pm Post subject: Engine Question

Carlos,



Since you are building an HDS, I think the 3300 would be preferred over the 2200.  The 2200 would work with the HD since it has more wing area.  Don Honabach has an HDS with the 3300 and he is pleased with it.  I have a 912 ULS in my HDS and am happy with it, but I think the 80 HP would be a little bit short on power.  During the summer I can really tell the difference in the performance.  I fly out of an airport that is at 1200 ft. elevation.



To give my 2 cents worth to Larry about his question on the VW and O-235.  The VW doesn't have enough HP.  The O-235 makes the HD a single place airplane due to the weight.  The orginal gross weight of an HD is 1200 lbs.  My HDS came in at 625 empty with the 912, with the O-235 it would be closer to 725.  That would give you 475 lbs for pilot, copilot, gas, and baggage.  Not much.



Jerry Latimer

601HDS 912ULS 215 hrs and loving it.

jeffrey_davidson(at)earth
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:35 pm Post subject: Engine Question

Larry,

Great choice on the HD model.  None of the 601s are fast airplanes and you will be happy with the HDs climb.  You might consider using the front hindged XL canopy however.  The origonal HD design was innovative, but it was possible for the canopy to become unlatched on both sides.  Do install both wing lockers.  They are good sized and handy.  For me, the 16 thou skins are fine.  Some builders use 20 for a cleaner look, but that is cosmetic.  I used Zenith's leading edge wings tanks with no header tank.  The systems works like a Piper Warrior does except the fuel pumps are located at the tanks to push the fuel to the engine instead of sucking it.  At almost 15 gallons a side, the range is super.

Jeff Davidson



CH601-HD/Jabiru 3300

--

LNelson

Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 13

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Engine Question

Thanks everyone for the feedback.  I live in Yuma, Az so elevation is around 300ft but summer bring temps up to 120F and density altitude also increases dramatically during that time of year.  As far as the Corvair engines go, has anyone had issues finding them?

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:20 am Post subject: Engine Question

Lots of people swear the Corvair engine is wonderful, but I've also 

heard lots of people swear over long delivery times and unanswered 

phones on the part of its guru, William Wynne.



If you decided to go the converted auto engine route I suggest you plan 

a few extra years in your build program for the engine.



Paul

Camas, WA



On 3/20/2013 9:04 AM, LNelson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks everyone for the feedback.  I live in Yuma, Az so elevation is around 300ft but summer bring temps up to 120F and density altitude also increases dramatically during that time of year.  As far as the Corvair engines go, has anyone had issues finding them?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396661#396661

jlatimer1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:26 am Post subject: Engine Question

Larry I live in Chandler Az.  If you ever make it to the Phoenix area, give me a shout.  I would be glad to show you my HDS.  There are 7 601's that are active flyers in this area.

Jerry Latimer

601 HDS 912 uls 215 hrs



LNelson <lk.nelson(at)juno.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks everyone for the feedback.  I live in Yuma, Az so elevation is around 300ft but summer bring temps up to 120F and density altitude also increases dramatically during that time of year.  As far as the Corvair engines go, has anyone had issues finding them?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396661#396661

ray.3191

Joined: 23 Jan 2012
Posts: 2

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Engine Question

Hi Larry

I decided to go with the Viking 110hp. Great firewall forward price, the 

quality and engineering is second to none.

Cheers

Ray

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