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Unorthodox Tire Balancing

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Bill Strahan

Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 145

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:01 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

One of my tires is severely out of balance.  I have a Marc Parnes tire balancer, and it is SUPER sensitive, but this is so out of balance it will rotate on the wheels bearings!  



So in attempting to balance it, I've determined it would take 2.5 ounces on the rim to bring it into balance it.  The wheel is so small compared to the tire that it takes a lot of weight to fix an imbalance in the tire.  (And yes, I've rotated the tire on the rim to make sure it's really the tire.  It is. )



So I started thinking about how it would be so much easier to balance if I could get the weight further out on the tire instead of inside the rim.  Then I saw that old inner tube laying there...



So my question is this:  If I cut a flat section of old tube and laid it inside the tire, between the tube and tire, does anyone have an opinion on whether or not that's going to wear a flat spot on the tube?  



I've felt the inside of the tire, and it's by no means smooth.  It has grooves and imperfections that feel about the same thickness as the wall of the old tube, so it would seem to me that it would be fine.  Opinions?



If it would work, I could balance it with a fraction of the weight, and I'd never worry about one of the weights being slung off the rim and going on a wheelpant eating spree.

esn14gp(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:42 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Install a new tire/tube?

  

 Might be easier and a better fix long-term.

  

 Gordon

  

  

 



    

From: Bill Strahan <bill(at)gdsx.com>

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:01 PM

Subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

--> Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan" <bill(at)gdsx.com (bill(at)gdsx.com)>



One of my tires is severely out of balance.  I have a Marc Parnes tire balancer, and it is SUPER sensitive,  but this is so out of balance it will rotate on the wheels bearings!  



So in attempting to balance it, I've determined it would take 2.5 ounces on the rim to bring it into balance it.  The wheel is so small compared to the tire that it takes a lot of weight to fix an imbalance in the tire.  (And yes, I've rotated the tire on the rim to make sure it's really the tire.  It is. )



So I started thinking about how it would be so much easier to balance if I could get the weight further out on the tire instead of inside the rim.  Then I saw that old inner tube laying there...



So my question is this:  If I cut a flat section of old tube and laid it inside the tire, between the tube and tire, does anyone have an opinion on whether or not that's going to wear a flat spot on the tube?  



I've felt the inside of the tire, and it's by no means smooth.  It has grooves and imperfections that feel about  the same thickness as the wall of the old tube, so it would seem to me that it would be fine.  Opinions?



If it would work, I could balance it with a fraction of the weight, and I'd never worry about one of the weights being slung off the rim and going on a wheelpant eating spree.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.co;                     &nb========================

 [quote][b]

N1BZRich(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:12 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Hi Bill,

     I think you will be fine with the fix you have  described.  However, my question is what brand of tire is that far out  of balance?  And how many ply tire is it?  Or is it maybe a recap?   Of all the aircraft tires I've had over the past 35 years on six different  airplanes I've never had one that far out of balance.  

 Blue Skies,

 Buz

  

  In a message dated 3/20/2013 6:02:04 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  bill(at)gdsx.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan"    <bill(at)gdsx.com>



One of my tires is severely out of balance.     I have a Marc Parnes tire balancer, and it is SUPER sensitive, but this is so    out of balance it will rotate on the wheels bearings!  



So in    attempting to balance it, I've determined it would take 2.5 ounces on the rim    to bring it into balance it.  The wheel is so small compared to the tire    that it takes a lot of weight to fix an imbalance in the tire.  (And yes,    I've rotated the tire on the rim to make sure it's really the tire.  It    is. )



So I started thinking about how it would be so much easier to    balance if I could get the weight further out on the tire instead of inside    the rim.  Then I saw that old inner tube laying there...



So my    question is this:  If I cut a flat section of old tube and laid it inside    the tire, between the tube and tire, does anyone have an opinion on whether or    not that's going to wear a flat spot on the tube?  



I've felt the    inside of the tire, and it's by no means smooth.  It has grooves and    imperfections that feel about the same thickness as the wall of the old tube,    so it would seem to me that it would be fine.  Opinions?



If it    would work, I could balance it with a fraction of the weight, and I'd never    worry about one of the weights being slung off the rim and going on a    wheelpant eating spree.





Read this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=396689#396689

	


 [quote][b]

wb2ssj(at)rochester.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Bill, I would give it a try. If the tire is new, most places will replace it 

no problem if you tell them its that far out of balance.



Tex



---

Bill Strahan

Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 145

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

It's got about 35 hours on it.  It required about 1.25 ounce when it was new.  I don't recall landing with the brakes on!  



There are no flat spots, and insignificant wear, but it isn't perfectly round either.  When I just spin the wheel I can see perhaps 3/32" of out of roundness, but that doesn't correlate with the heavy side, so I don't think that's the problem?  Brand?  I don't even recall, but I'll look next time I'm in the hanger.  I think it's a 6 ply tire.



I like the tires well balanced, which is why I own the balancer.  Ditto for prop balance.  Vibration in an airplane is a great thing to minimize.

wb2ssj(at)rochester.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:13 am Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Bill, buy a new tire. Its not worth failing a few hundred miles away from 

home.

---

Bill Strahan

Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 145

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

 	  wb2ssj(at)rochester.rr.co wrote: 	
		  Bill, buy a new tire. Its not worth failing a few hundred miles away from 

home.

--- 	




Good advice, but the question still applies to any balance job. It's a pain to add weights to the tiny rims on these planes, and if the extra tube piece inside the tire won't cause problems it would either eliminate or greatly reduce the weights on the rim.

davemcc

Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 74

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

have u tried spin balancing these  tires

 [quote]   ---

Bill Strahan

Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 145

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

[quote="davemcc"]have u tried spin balancing these  tires

  	  Quote: 	
		     --- 	




Not sure what you mean.

davemcc

Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 74

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:34 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Bill

Just a little history, I have nearly 1,000 hrs on my Esqual and have tried 

everything to get rid of shimmy, I was the first one ever to use the "broom 

handle" on the struts.

About two years ago I was talking to a friend who is a truck mech.  He said 

he had a spin balancer at home that would balance these small tires--I have 

been trying to find someone for 8 years that could do this. Please 

understand, I have used every type of balancer. When I got my tires back, it 

was like heaven, shimmy is gone. I gave him a "franklin" for doing it cause 

I was so happy with the results

Find someone with a spin balancer, you won't regret it

Dave

---

Bill Strahan

Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 145

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Here's what I'm now using to balance. 



http://youtu.be/urAY_g2gmGM



How cool is that?

n45bm(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:27 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Tower Hobbies (and others) sells a magnetic model airplane prop balancer - same principle. Could be up-sized to balance our big Lightning props too. Why not? All you need is bigger magnets,

Bernardo



--- On Mon, 3/25/13, Bill Strahan <bill(at)gdsx.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Bill Strahan <bill(at)gdsx.com>

Subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, March 25, 2013, 8:38 PM



--> Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan" <[url=/mc/compose?to=bill(at)gdsx.com]bill(at)gdsx.com[/url]>



Here's what I'm now using to balance. 



http://youtu.be/urAY_g2gmGM



How cool is that?





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397056#397056



nbsp;  --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-L;         a href="http://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.matr            - List Contribution Web Site;                     &nb; http:========================





	
 [quote][b]

n5pb(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Bill,

  That IS cool.  how well does it work and what is the cost?  Where did you get it?

   

  Bear

  

  

  --

Bill Strahan

Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 145

Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Two points:



First, this idea came from an old R/C prop balancer I had.  It was like the magnetic balancer, but was just a shaft, two tapered cones, and the shaft had pointed ends.  You just held it very lightly between your fingers.  When I saw the magnetic balancer, I adapted that $3 balancer to a magnetic version with some old hard drive magnets and a 2X4.  Worked perfectly.



This version obviously requires much larger magnets.    Same idea though.  As to prop balancing, no need to bother with a static balance.  I have a dnya-vibe and hook that up and run the wires through the heater butterfly box into the cabin so I can take readings at cruise speed and then balance for that specific RPM.  When I get it just right, you can tell the increase in vibration on either side of 2850.  At that specific RPM it's like glass.



I posted another video with some more detail if anyone wants to recreate my balancer setup.  http://youtu.be/53mUcjocNUQ  



If you're near DFW, drop by F69 if you want to borrow it.

winky53(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:54 am Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Lightning All,  I have used ceramic beads to balance a tires. I was told about these the last time I put new tires on my motorcycle. I run a KUMO run flat care tire on the rear of my Honda Goldwing with 3 ounces of beads and 2 ounces of beads in the front and the ride is great.  No matter what speed I am traveling the beads will move within the tire to balance it.  

  

 I decided to added 1 ounce of ceramic beads inside each tube on my rear Lightning tires and have found they run great. With the cost of tires I run retreads, and they balance perfect no matter what speed I appy to them. Ceramic beads are used on 18 wheelers and car tires for a long time. As a tire wears, the balance changes and with stick on weights or rim weights the lead never moves and tires will get out of balance after some mileage.  The ceramic beads always are moving and can be reused.  Just some other food for thought.

  

 Gary

 Lightning N428GW 

 

  

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

 From: bill(at)gdsx.com

 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 19:25:43 -0700

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan" <bill(at)gdsx.com>

 

 Two points:

 

 First, this idea came from an old R/C prop balancer I had. It was like the magnetic balancer, but was just a shaft, two tapered cones, and the shaft had pointed ends. You just held it very lightly between your fingers. When I saw the magnetic balancer, I adapted that $3 balancer to a magnetic version with some old hard drive magnets and a 2X4. Worked perfectly.

 

 This version obviously requires much larger magnets.  Same idea though. As to prop balancing, no need to bother with a static balance. I have a dnya-vibe and hook that up and run the wires through the heater butterfly box into the cabin so I can take readings at cruise speed and then balance for that specific RPM. When I get it just right, you can tell the increase in vibration on either side of 2850. At that specific RPM it's like glass.

 

 I posted another video with some more detail if anyone wants to recreate my balancer setup. http://youtu.be/53mUcjocNUQ 

 

 If you're near DFW, drop by F69 if you want to borrow it.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397150#397150

 

 

 

&gt
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 


	


 		 	   		  

  [quote][b]

n45bm(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:58 am Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Gary,

Another excellent idea. A friend with an RV-6 showed me his "dynamic" balancer on his prop. Same principle, works great! Don't know what the medium size was inside his prop balancer, but they sure work. It's true there's more than one way to skin a cat. Thanks.

Regards,

Bernardo Melendez, kit #110



--- On Wed, 3/27/13, gary winkler <winky53(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: gary winkler <winky53(at)hotmail.com>

Subject: RE: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, March 27, 2013, 9:53 AM



    Lightning All,  I have used ceramic beads to balance a tires. I was told about these the last time I put new tires on my motorcycle. I run a KUMO run flat care tire on the rear of my Honda Goldwing with 3 ounces of beads and 2 ounces of beads in the front and the ride is great.  No matter what speed I am traveling the beads will move within the tire to balance it.  

  

 I decided to added 1 ounce of ceramic beads inside each tube on my rear Lightning tires and have found they run great. With the cost of tires I run retreads, and they balance perfect no matter what speed I apply to them. Ceramic beads are used on 18 wheelers and car tires for a long time. As a tire wears, the balance changes and with stick on weights or rim weights the lead never moves and tires will get out of balance after some mileage.  The ceramic beads always are moving and can be reused.  Just some other food for thought.

  

 Gary

 Lightning N428GW 

 

  

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

 From: bill(at)gdsx.com

 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 19:25:43 -0700

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan" <bill(at)gdsx.com>

 

 Two points:

 

 First, this idea came from an old R/C prop balancer I had. It was like the magnetic balancer, but was just a shaft, two tapered cones, and the shaft had pointed ends. You just held it very lightly between your fingers. When I saw the magnetic balancer, I adapted that $3 balancer to a magnetic version with some old hard drive magnets and a 2X4. Worked perfectly.

 

 This version obviously requires much larger magnets.  Same idea though. As to prop balancing, no need to bother with a static balance. I have a dnya-vibe and hook that up and run the wires through the heater butterfly  box into the cabin so I can take readings at cruise speed and then balance for that specific RPM. When I get it just right, you can tell the increase in vibration on either side of 2850. At that specific RPM it's like glass.

 

 I posted another video with some more detail if anyone wants to recreate my balancer setup. http://youtu.be/53mUcjocNUQ 

 

 If you're near DFW, drop by F69 if you want to borrow it.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397150#397150

 

 

 



 

 

 


	


 		 	   		  

   	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.c==================


	




	
 [quote][b]

barnett6088(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:25 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Gary

Where do you buy the beads?  I assume they are small enough to fit through the valve stem.  Thanks for the idea.  Gary B. gbsss(at)bendbroadband.com (gbsss(at)bendbroadband.com) 

 



From: winky53(at)hotmail.com

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:53:39 +0000



    Lightning All,  I have used ceramic beads to balance a tires. I was told about these the last time I put new tires on my motorcycle. I run a KUMO run flat care tire on the rear of my Honda Goldwing with 3 ounces of beads and 2 ounces of beads in the front and the ride is great.  No matter what speed I am traveling the beads will move within the tire to balance it.  

  

 I decided to added 1 ounce of ceramic beads inside each tube on my rear Lightning tires and have found they run great. With the cost of tires I run retreads, and they balance perfect no matter what speed I appy to them. Ceramic beads are used on 18 wheelers and car tires for a long time. As a tire wears, the balance changes and with stick on weights or rim weights the lead never moves and tires will get out of balance after some mileage.  The ceramic beads always are moving and can be reused.  Just some other food for thought.

  

 Gary

 Lightning N428GW 

 

  

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

 From: bill(at)gdsx.com

 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 19:25:43 -0700

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan" <bill(at)gdsx.com>

 

 Two points:

 

 First, this idea came from an old R/C prop balancer I had. It was like the magnetic balancer, but was just a shaft, two tapered cones, and the shaft had pointed ends. You just held it very lightly between your fingers. When I saw the magnetic balancer, I adapted that $3 balancer to a magnetic version with some old hard drive magnets and a 2X4. Worked perfectly.

 

 This version obviously requires much larger magnets.  Same idea though. As to prop balancing, no need to bother with a static balance. I have a dnya-vibe and hook that up and run the wires through the heater butterfly box into the cabin so I can take readings at cruise speed and then balance for that specific RPM. When I get it just right, you can tell the increase in vibration on either side of 2850. At that specific RPM it's like glass.

 

 I posted another video with some more detail if anyone wants to recreate my balancer setup. http://youtu.be/53mUcjocNUQ 

 

 If you're near DFW, drop by F69 if you want to borrow it.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397150#397150

 

 

 



 

 

 


	


 		 	   		  

  [quote]


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st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List

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[b]

jim.kulbeth(at)insightbb.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:36 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

I got some at a motorcycle shop.  $20 per 2 wheels.

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of GARY BARNETT

Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 8:26 PM

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Gary

Where do you buy the beads?  I assume they are small enough to fit through the valve stem.  Thanks for the idea.  Gary B. gbsss(at)bendbroadband.com (gbsss(at)bendbroadband.com) 

From: winky53(at)hotmail.com (winky53(at)hotmail.com)

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: RE: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 14:53:39 +0000

Lightning All,  I have used ceramic beads to balance a tires. I was told about these the last time I put new tires on my motorcycle. I run a KUMO run flat care tire on the rear of my Honda Goldwing with 3 ounces of beads and 2 ounces of beads in the front and the ride is great.  No matter what speed I am traveling the beads will move within the tire to balance it.  

I decided to added 1 ounce of ceramic beads inside each tube on my rear Lightning tires and have found they run great. With the cost of tires I run retreads, and they balance perfect no matter what speed I appy to them. Ceramic beads are used on 18 wheelers and car tires for a long time. As a tire wears, the balance changes and with stick on weights or rim weights the lead never moves and tires will get out of balance after some mileage.  The ceramic beads always are moving and can be reused.  Just some other food for thought.

Gary

Lightning N428GW 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Subject: Re: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

 From: bill(at)gdsx.com (bill(at)gdsx.com)

 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2013 19:25:43 -0700

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)

 --> Lightning-List message posted by: "Bill Strahan" <bill(at)gdsx.com (bill(at)gdsx.com)>

 Two points:

 First, this idea came from an old R/C prop balancer I had. It was like the magnetic balancer, but was just a shaft, two tapered cones, and the shaft had pointed ends. You just held it very lightly between your fingers. When I saw the magnetic balancer, I adapted that $3 balancer to a magnetic version with some old hard drive magnets and a 2X4. Worked perfectly.

 This version obviously requires much larger magnets.  Same idea though. As to prop balancing, no need to bother with a static balance. I have a dnya-vibe and hook that up and run the wires through the heater butterfly box into the cabin so I can take readings at cruise speed and then balance for that specific RPM. When I get it just right, you can tell the increase in vibration on either side of 2850. At that specific RPM it's like glass.

 I posted another video with some more detail if anyone wants to recreate my balancer setup. http://youtu.be/53mUcjocNUQ 

 If you're near DFW, drop by F69 if you want to borrow it.

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397150#397150

 	  Quote: 	
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davemcc

Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 74

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:45 pm Post subject: Unorthodox Tire Balancing

You say you know of trucks and motorcycles using  these beads.  I don't believe semis or bikes have used tires with tubes for  around 30 years.  Of course we all use these thin walled "tubes" in our  aircraft.  Being a safety type guy, if I were to install moving items in my  tubes, I would do some homework.It would suck making a landing after air left my  tube while in flight.  My 2 --

 [quote]   ---

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