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Blind riveting ground to airframe?
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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
Greetings,

I'm wondering about the wisdom of using a blind rivet to hold a terminal to the airframe. Is it an acceptable method? I don't know how much compressive force a rivet actually exerts and if it's enough to create a gas tight connection. Any other recommended ways to connect a wire to an Al rib besides a nut and bolt?
[quote]--
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine [b]

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
At 01:46 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
Greetings,

I'm wondering about the wisdom of using a blind rivet to hold a terminal to the airframe. Is it an acceptable method? I don't know how much compressive force a rivet actually exerts and if it's enough to create a gas tight connection. Any other recommended ways to connect a wire to an Al rib besides a nut and bolt?

Great question . . .

Rivets are renowned for their shear strength and
grip on the base material by swelling up in the
hole as the formed head is crafted. I too
am skeptical as to the axial mate up forces.

At Cessna, there was a rule of thumb that called
for no less than #8 hardware torqued to specs
for attaching terminals to ground. #10 would be
better yet.

One can do the math to compute axial mate up
forces for a threaded fastener . . . or probably
look it up. But I've never seen data for a rivet.
I don't have data to discourage the idea. Are you
wanting to ground to a surface where the back side
is inaccessible? How about a longer ground wire
to a friendlier location?


Bob . . . [quote][b]

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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head. Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/24/2013 05:05 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

[quote] At 01:46 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
Greetings,

I'm wondering about the wisdom of using a blind rivet to hold a terminal to the airframe. Is it an acceptable method? I don't know how much compressive force a rivet actually exerts and if it's enough to create a gas tight connection. Any other recommended ways to connect a wire to an Al rib besides a nut and bolt?

Great question . . .

Rivets are renowned for their shear strength and
grip on the base material by swelling up in the
hole as the formed head is crafted. I too
am skeptical as to the axial mate up forces.

At Cessna, there was a rule of thumb that called
for no less than #8 hardware torqued to specs
for attaching terminals to ground. #10 would be
better yet.

One can do the math to compute axial mate up
forces for a threaded fastener . . . or probably
look it up. But I've never seen data for a rivet.
I don't have data to discourage the idea. Are you
wanting to ground to a surface where the back side
is inaccessible? How about a longer ground wire
to a friendlier location?


Bob . . .
Quote:

[b]

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:17 am    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.

Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
application but the screw and nut are never wrong.

Quote:
Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?

No


Bob . . . [quote][b]

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uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
If you go the rivet way, a stainless steel one would probably be the way to go.

On Mar 25, 2013, at 2:16, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
[quote] At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.

Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
application but the screw and nut are never wrong.

Quote:
Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?

No


Bob . . .
Quote:


[b]

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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
Thanks.

do not archive
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/24/2013 08:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

[quote] At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.

Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
application but the screw and nut are never wrong.

Quote:
Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?

No


Bob . . .
Quote:

[b]

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klehman(at)albedo.net
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
No doubt a rivet would work for awhile but considering that I often use
various 1/8" pulled rivets as a movable pivot for things like
specialized bolt holding pliers, I really don't think they have much
residual axial tension after pulling. Put one rivet through two pieces
of scrap aluminum and you will see what I mean. Corrosion-x "oil" always
seems to seep out around these rivets even when applied after painting
and even if the rivet was inserted wet with epoxy primer. Doesn't seem
likely to be gas tight to me.
Ken

On 24/03/2013 9:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
Quote:
At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
> The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think
> I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking
> nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.

Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
application but the screw and nut are never wrong.

> Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?

No

Bob . . .



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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed" fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire.
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 12:22 PM, Ken wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman(at)albedo.net> (klehman(at)albedo.net)

No doubt a rivet would work for awhile but considering that I often use various 1/8" pulled rivets as a movable pivot for things like specialized bolt holding pliers, I really don't think they have much residual axial tension after pulling. Put one rivet through two pieces of scrap aluminum and you will see what I mean. Corrosion-x "oil" always seems to seep out around these rivets even when applied after painting and even if the rivet was inserted wet with epoxy primer. Doesn't seem likely to be gas tight to me.
Ken

On 24/03/2013 9:16 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
Quote:
At 05:36 PM 3/24/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
The instructions show the fuel sender grounded with a rivet. I think
I'll just drill a hole and use a nut and bolt. I'm thinking
nylocknut-washer-sheetmetal-star washer-terminal-washer-bolt head.

Hmmmm . . . the fuel level sender is a unusual case . . .
very low current flow. The rules of thumb for bonding
to the airframe are based on design goals for (1) minimizing
voltage drop at current and (2) maintaining joint integrity
with effects of age. The rivet would probably work for this
application but the screw and nut are never wrong.

Quote:
Any problem with putting 2 terminals under the bolt?

No

Bob . . .



























[b]

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:40 am    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed" fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire.

Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
certainly robust enough to the task. The
larger fasteners come into play when you're
wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
#10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
on the terminals.

Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
probably sufficed for most appliances. The
occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
for example) would give pause to consider something
larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.

The question that launched this thread called
for considering the long term performance of
a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
fasteners were always appropriate.


Bob . . . [quote][b]

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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my search and ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll probably stock up on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground connections.
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

[quote] At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed" fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire.

Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
certainly robust enough to the task. The
larger fasteners come into play when you're
wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
#10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
on the terminals.

Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
probably sufficed for most appliances. The
occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
for example) would give pause to consider something
larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.

The question that launched this thread called
for considering the long term performance of
a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
fasteners were always appropriate.


Bob . . .
Quote:

[b]

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email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10? Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?

On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net (raymondj(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
[quote] Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my search and ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll probably stock up on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground connections.
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

Quote:
At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed" fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire.

Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
certainly robust enough to the task. The
larger fasteners come into play when you're
wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
#10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
on the terminals.

Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
probably sufficed for most appliances. The
occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
for example) would give pause to consider something
larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.

The question that launched this thread called
for considering the long term performance of
a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
fasteners were always appropriate.


Bob . . .
Quote:



[b]

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harley(at)AgelessWings.co
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
AN bolts have rolled threads...if you have a "normal" tap you will CUT threads into the bolt, weakening it, causing bolt shaft weakness and potential fracture points: www.bhamfast.com/pdfs/bhamfast_rtct.pdf

Harley
On 3/25/2013 5:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:

[quote] When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10?  Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?






[b]

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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
Both fasteners have a thread pitch of 32 threads per inch. The difference lies in the diameter.

An AN3 bolt has a major diameter of 0.375 inches.

A #10 diameter fastener has a major diameter of 0.190 inches.

Compare an AN3-6A bolt to an AN 526-10R12 screw. Both are approximately 3/4 of an inch long and have 32 threads per inch on the threaded portion.

As someone else mentioned AN/MS/NAS threads are all rolled threads, which are formed by deforming the blank shaft. No material is removed. Many other threads are made by cutting away material. Threads of the same size can be formed using either method.

Hope this information is useful.
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 04:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:

[quote] When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10? Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?





On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net (raymondj(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:


Quote:
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my search and ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll probably stock up on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground connections.
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

Quote:
At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed" fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire.

Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
certainly robust enough to the task. The
larger fasteners come into play when you're
wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
#10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
on the terminals.

Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
probably sufficed for most appliances. The
occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
for example) would give pause to consider something
larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.

The question that launched this thread called
for considering the long term performance of
a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
fasteners were always appropriate.


Bob . . .
Quote:




[b]

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email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
Say again please? I think .375 is more like the AN3 wrench size if we are talking about the same thing.
On Mar 25, 2013, at 19:31, rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net (raymondj(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
[quote] Both fasteners have a thread pitch of 32 threads per inch. The difference lies in the diameter.

An AN3 bolt has a major diameter of 0.375 inches.

A #10 diameter fastener has a major diameter of 0.190 inches.

Compare an AN3-6A bolt to an AN 526-10R12 screw. Both are approximately 3/4 of an inch long and have 32 threads per inch on the threaded portion.

As someone else mentioned AN/MS/NAS threads are all rolled threads, which are formed by deforming the blank shaft. No material is removed. Many other threads are made by cutting away material. Threads of the same size can be formed using either method.

Hope this information is useful.
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 04:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:

Quote:
When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10? Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?





On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net (raymondj(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:


Quote:
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my search and ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll probably stock up on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground connections.
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

Quote:
At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed" fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire.

Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
certainly robust enough to the task. The
larger fasteners come into play when you're
wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
#10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
on the terminals.

Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
probably sufficed for most appliances. The
occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
for example) would give pause to consider something
larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.

The question that launched this thread called
for considering the long term performance of
a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
parts. I think the consensus was that rivets
are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
fasteners were always appropriate.


Bob . . .
Quote:






[b]

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n801bh(at)NetZero.com
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:08 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
Agreed........
AN-3 is around .187"... NOT .375"
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

--------

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
At 04:57 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10? Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?

See:

http://www.coastfab.com/images/pdf/2010/bolts_an3_an10.pdf

AN-X hardware is a very old specification that dates
back to a time when the numbers actually meant something.



Bob . . . [quote][b]

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cyav8r(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
The info I have says a #10 screw has a nominal diameter of 0.190 inches, while an AN3 bolt is 0.1875 inches, both with 32 treads per inch.

Right or wrong I just always treated them as interchangeable, or am I missing something here?

From: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>
To: "aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com" <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: Blind riveting ground to airframe?


Say again please? I think .375 is more like the AN3 wrench size if we are talking about the same thing.
On Mar 25, 2013, at 19:31, rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net (raymondj(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:
[quote] Both fasteners have a thread pitch of 32 threads per inch. The difference lies in the diameter.

An AN3 bolt has a major diameter of 0.375 inches.

A #10 diameter fastener has a major diameter of 0.190 inches.

Compare an AN3-6A bolt to an AN 526-10R12 screw. Both are approximately 3/4 of an inch long and have 32 threads per inch on the threaded portion.

As someone else mentioned AN/MS/NAS threads are all rolled threads, which are formed by deforming the blank shaft. No material is removed. Many other threads are made by cutting away material. Threads of the same size can be formed using either method.

Hope this information is useful.
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 04:57 PM, Jared Yates wrote:

Quote:
When I compare the threads on my AN3 bolts to the threads on my 10-32 tap, they sure look similar. Why wouldn't one consider AN3 to be #10? Is this a "fetch a pail of propwash" question?





On Mar 25, 2013, at 17:21, rayj <raymondj(at)frontiernet.net (raymondj(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:


Quote:
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads. I gave up my search and ordered some #8 and #10 phillips round head screws. I'll probably stock up on #10 terminals and use them for all my ground connections.
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 02:38 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

Quote:
At 01:08 PM 3/25/2013, you wrote:
Quote:
My thoughts also. I've been looking for some #10 (an2?) "blessed" fasteners without much luck. Anyone know a good source. An3 seems like overkill for a grounding wire.

Consider the effects of scale. In the case for
grounding a fuel level sensor (22AWG wires?)
and milliamps of current, #6 hardware is
certainly robust enough to the task. The
larger fasteners come into play when you're
wanting to increase the gas-tight contact
area for the purpose of carrying lots of current.
For example, taking a battery(-) to structure
would certainly benefit from the capabilities of
#10 or even .25 hardware to put the super-mash
on the terminals.

Cessna's rule of thumb was for #8 hardware
probably sufficed for most appliances. The
occasional device (landing gear hydraulic pumps
for example) would give pause to consider something
larger. Milliamp loads would be fine with #6.

The question that launched this thread called
for considering the long term performance of
a rivet to provide axial pressures on made-up
parts.  I think the consensus was that rivets
are problematic but appropriately sized threaded
  fasteners were always appropriate.

Bob . . .
Quote:














D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3; http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElec=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3DD=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D [/b][b]

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raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
You are both correct. My mistake. I was thinking diameter of an an3 was 3/8 not 3/16. Boy do I feel dumb. My apologies gentlemen. I transposed which dimension is measured in 1/16ths and which is measured in 1/8ths. Now if I can only find out how take it out of the archive. :>)
Quote:
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.

"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,
and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine
On 03/25/2013 07:06 PM, Ben Haas wrote:

[quote]
Agreed........
AN-3 is around .187"... NOT .375" ============DNA removed by Raymond Julian===========


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

--------

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glastar(at)gmx.net
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm

I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws

Cheers Werner

On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
Quote:
Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.


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email(at)jaredyates.com
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:47 am    Post subject: Blind riveting ground to airframe? Reply with quote
I think I just realized the source of my confusion. When I read "hex head" I visualized the head of an AN bolt. Maybe instead we are talking about socket heads?

On Mar 26, 2013, at 6:41, Werner Schneider <glastar(at)gmx.net> wrote:

Quote:


Ray checkout http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/SSC.cfm

I replaced nearly all of my Phillips with the 6 lobe screws

Cheers Werner

On 25.03.2013 22:21, rayj wrote:
> Agreed. I was looking for some "blessed" #10 hex head bolts because I
> prefer a hex head over slotted or phillips screw heads.






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