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Medical and LSA

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kuffel(at)cyberport.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:18 pm Post subject: Medical and LSA

<<  If you fail your third class  and can't get it reinstated through the appeals process your aviation career is  

done except for gliders.  >>

  

 Several messages have the same  misconceptions.  The medical rules for LSA and gliders are the  same.

  

 First the general rule for all  pilots:  If you are aware of a condition which makes you medically  unfit to fly, then it is illegal for you to fly.

  

 Next, if you have a driver's license then you are  presumed to be medically fit to fly LSA/gliders unless you are  aware of not meeting the first rule.

  

 Now the real kicker: If you have failed your most  recent medical you are already and permanently presumed to still have a  condition which makes you medically unfit to fly.  The only way around this  is to go through the hoops to get your medical reestablished.  Then you can  let your medical lapse and continue to fly LSA/glider if you have a driver's  license (and can say with a straight face you meet the general  rule).

  

 The moral of the story is if you might fail your  medical, do not take it.

  

 If you have already failed your most recent medical  and can not get it reinstated your only legal option is Part 103  ultralights.

  

 The same Catch-22 will apply to the new  self-certifying medical if the FAA approves it.

  

 Tom Kuffel, CFI

 Whitefish, MT

   [quote][b]

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rmurrill(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:47 pm Post subject: Medical and LSA

Tom .... Concur with almost everything you said on the medicals and  LSA.  As an older Kolb builder and HP-18 sailplane owner who did not as yet  renew his 3rd class medical this year these rules matter.  Hard decision to  give up on night flying or abandon the IFR investment and flexibility.   Harder still, the risk to be essentially grounded if still in good health.   Plus I would have several airplanes that would need to be sold.    Besides the Part 103 option, I still believe gliders and balloons are treated  differently.  Check out CFR 61.23 paragraph b items 2 and 3 seem to provide  a special carve out exemption for gliders and balloons vs. next paragraph c item  2 which is where you get nixed for sport pilot for all other categories and  classes if you failed your most recent medical. Am I reading it  incorrectly?  

 Bob

  

  

    From: The Kuffels (kuffel(at)cyberport.net) 

 Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 9:18 PM

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Medical and LSA



   <<  If you fail your third class and  can't get it reinstated through the appeals process your aviation career is  

done except for gliders.  >>

  

 Several messages have the same  misconceptions.  The medical rules for LSA and gliders are the  same.

  

 First the general rule for all pilots:  If you  are aware of a condition which makes you medically unfit to fly, then it is  illegal for you to fly.

  

 Next, if you have a driver's license then you are  presumed to be medically fit to fly LSA/gliders unless you are  aware of not meeting the first rule.

  

 Now the real kicker: If you have failed your most  recent medical you are already and permanently presumed to still have a  condition which makes you medically unfit to fly.  The only way around this  is to go through the hoops to get your medical reestablished.  Then you can  let your medical lapse and continue to fly LSA/glider if you have a driver's  license (and can say with a straight face you meet the general  rule).

  

 The moral of the story is if you might fail your  medical, do not take it.

  

 If you have already failed your most recent medical  and can not get it reinstated your only legal option is Part 103  ultralights.

  

 The same Catch-22 will apply to the new  self-certifying medical if the FAA approves it.

  

 Tom Kuffel, CFI

 Whitefish, MT

[quote]



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jvanlaak(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 1:07 pm Post subject: Medical and LSA

I am a Kolb lover (built a Firestar in 1988) who rarely posts anything on here but I have an important point to make.  I am good friends with the head of the FAA Civil Aerospace Medicine Institute and he tells me that over 95% of people who go through the hoops to get their medical back are successful.  Sometimes that can be expensive (major heart surgery, liver transplant, that sort of thing) but for most people it is not too bad.  The overwhelming majority of people who "lose their medical" don't bother to try.  That is a personal decision but I for one take comfort in the idea that I can fail one time and not be grounded forever.

 

 BTW, a local fish spotter last year was running out of time to get his special issuance 2nd class (he had cancer but is in remission) so I called my Dr. friend.  The spotter got a call the next day that his medical was in the mail.

 

 Jim

    

  

     

  

     

  

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kuffel(at)cyberport.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:57 pm Post subject: Medical and LSA

Bob,

  

 <<  I still believe gliders and  balloons are treated differently.  Check out CFR 61.23 paragraph b items 2  and 3 seem to provide a special carve out exemption for gliders and balloons vs.  next paragraph c item 2 which is where you get nixed for sport pilot for all  other categories and classes if you failed your most recent medical   >>

  

 Dang, you are absolutely right.  Should have  checked the regs myself instead of relying on my (aging) memory.   Think when EAA proposed the LSA rules they wanted the medical rules to be the  same as glider/balloon and when it came out with the "last medical fail" gotcha  I confused the new rule with the unchanged established one.

  

 Thanks for doing the research and giving me the  numbers.  Fact remains, if you are not sure you can pass your medical, you  are well advised to not take it.

  

 It is true, most medical appeals are eventually  granted (often after great amounts of time and money).  But believe most of  those who don't bother to appeal do so because they "self-select" (to paraphrase  a phrase) with the knowledge of poor odds of being successful in their  case.

  

 The whole situation reminds me to heed the advice  of an AOPA lecturer during a refresher clinic.  When asked a question about  the regulations the correct answer is "I don't know, lets look it up."   Wish I had done that.  Thanks again.

  

 Tom

  

  

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 1:27 am Post subject: Re: Medical and LSA

One thing a lot of airplane pilots believe erroneously, is that a private pilot with or without a medical can hop into a motorglider and fly solo legally in the USA. Not so, to fly a motorglider (self-launched glider/sailplane) solo one must have a glider pilot certificate. 



https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/licensing-and-training/licensing-faq

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_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:43 am Post subject: Medical and LSA

At 05:27 AM 4/2/2013, Thom Riddle wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com>



 One thing a lot of airplane pilots believe erroneously, is that a private pilot with or without a medical can hop into a motorglider and fly solo legally in the USA. Not so, to fly a motorglider (self-launched glider/sailplane) solo one must have a glider pilot certificate. 	


 If the motorglider has a standard airworthiness certificate, that is correct.  However, a Private Pilot can fly solo in ANY experimental aircraft (air/land/multi/glider/rotorcraft/whatever) without any additional certificates or ratings.



 Dana

 --

 There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.    

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:53 am Post subject: Medical and LSA

to fly a motorglider (self-launched glider/sailplane) solo one must have a 

glider pilot certificate.>>



Hi Thom,

Having a licence to fly something (a certicate of competence) is one thing. 

Being medically approved to do so is another.



You seem to be in the happy position that you can fly ultralights without 

either.

Sports class seems to require a flying licence but no medical provided that 

you have a driving licence. I assume in that case that you need a medical to 

get a driving licence.

The next step up to a heavier machine requires a flying licence and a proper 

medical examination.



Here you need a flying licence to fly anything, but the authorities 

recognise that you do not have to be a superman to tootle around the sky in 

a Tiger Moth on a Sunday afternoon and the requirements reflect that. As 

does the medical.



I think that we have the advantage that each branch of flying has its own 

organisation.

Therefore the government has handed over the running of all flying to the 

CAA (your FAA)

Below that the British Gliding Association (BGA) is responsible for all 

gliding..Flying  training, safety issues, approval of new types, training 

instructors, setting competence levels for pilots, organising National and 

International  Competitions. They approve the formation of new clubs.Fight 

legal issues on behalf of members etc I don`t know about a medical. It was 

not needed in my gliding days.



The Light Aircraft Association. deals with all the above but on behalf of 

anything with an engine. Started prewar  as a club for those building simple 

small airplanes  from plans, up to two seats. Now includes 4 seaters and 

light twins.and kit planes, replicas. There are Se5 and Fokker Eindeckers on 

the roster. The edge between microlights and kit planes is a bit blurred. My 

Kolb was dealt with by LAA.



Then there is the British Microlight Aircraft Assoc.(BMAA)

This deals with all aircraft which fall within the legal definition of a 

microlight. (All up weight, wing loading etc) Issues Noise certificates. for 

each type. Approves new types for engineering standards,flying 

characteristics etc



Both the LAA and BMAA get flack for not allowing types from abroad with good 

records on to the approved lists.



The various organisations each fight there own corner against government 

interference. The blanket ban on flying within a large area during the 

recent Olympics is a case in point.The various organisations got the area 

amended and the pre declaration requirement  of all flights reduced. Various 

flying schools faced bankrupcy had the original proposals gone through.



There is a strong move towards an agreed engineering standard for all 

microlights with the European Union with the intention of simplifying the 

process of licensing. A type approved in one country would then be 

automatically  acceptable in all others.The BMAA and the LAA are both 

involved in the negotiations at government level.

Both the LAA and the BMAA fight any proposals by local Councils to take over 

existing airfields to build houses. A favourite with Councils. A big flat 

field is very enticing for house builders.



I hadn`t intended to write such a long post but it sort of got away from me.

Sorry



Pat

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:58 am Post subject: Medical and LSA

If the motorglider has a standard airworthiness certificate, that is  correct.  However, a Private Pilot can fly solo in ANY experimental  aircraft (air/land/multi/glider/rotorcraft/whatever) without any additional  certificates or ratings.



 Grief.

  

 Surely an Airworthiness Certificate merely  certifies THE PLANE.

 That has nothing to do with competence. Do you  really mean that someone with a pilots licence can just get into a helicopter  and fly it.

 The mind boggles

  

 Pat

 



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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: Medical and LSA

At 07:58 AM 4/2/2013, Pat Ladd wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  If the motorglider has a standard airworthiness certificate, that is correct.  However, a Private Pilot can fly solo in ANY experimental aircraft (air/land/multi/glider/rotorcraft/whatever) without any additional certificates or ratings.

 Grief.

  

 Surely an Airworthiness Certificate merely certifies THE PLANE.

 That has nothing to do with competence. Do you really mean that someone with a pilots licence can just get into a helicopter and fly it.

 The mind boggles 	


 Possibly one of those unintended consequences of the way the rules were written, I guess.  The regulations on pilot certification specify what pilot certificates are required for any particular category or class of aircraft, and then go on to say that that section of the regulations don't apply to any experimental aircraft flown solo.  Presumably it was worded that way to allow testing of entirely new types of aircraft for which no corresponding pilot certificate exists, but the consequence is that yes, a private pilot with only an airplane rating airplane can legally solo an experimental helicopter, etc.  I guess the theory is also, like our ultralight regulations not requiring any pilot certificate, you're free to kill yourself, just don't take anybody else with you.



 Dana

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 Politics: Poli (many) - tics (blood sucking parasites)   

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