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SIDESLIP

Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Location: CYOO

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:26 pm Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

Hello all, I'm sure some of you recognize my name, as I've been on this forum since sept 2012. I recently purchased a very nice 601XL-B. I've flown one of these right seat with a Jabiru several months ago and was startled at its pitch sensitivity. It took me about 40 mins before I could hold an altitude that didn't vary +300', -300'. Being right seat didn't help matters either. Anyways, the builder is a busy busy man and is quite a ways away, so he won't be able to offer me instruction on this airplane. I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before, this is what is making me a tad anxious. Personally I have over 120 hours in Cessna 152, 172, Cherokee 180's and a bunch of ultralights. I've flown 912 Rotaxes in the past, so I am familiar with the engine, just not in one of these planes. For the first flight with my instructor, is there anything specific I need to make him aware of? I've got 2 hours on an XL-B, just with the Jabiru, and it was right seat. So, I know they're pitch sensitive, but how are they in the circuit? Any tips that someone could offer would be SUPER greatly appreciated! I really want to get this plane in the air and work off my 5 hours dual. Then I'll be able to go practice local north until my brain bleeds. 



My Plane is a 145 total hour airplane with a 912ULS. The airplane is in good shape, and all looks good mechanically. I actually think that I could fly it solo with little effort, but not a smart decision on my part. Dual instruction for me is better, although even though the instructors are so highly experienced, I'm still very much anxious. 



Ps. Does anyone know of any experienced flight instructors on type in the Oshawa area?



Thanks guys!



Chad

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C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B

benson.barry(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:29 pm Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

I have a 601XLB SLSA powered by a Continental 0-200.  I use the following numbers:  

advance throttle slowly for takeoff

rotation- 60 kts., climb out- 70 kts.

pattern - 70 kts.

 base leg- 70 kts. to 65 kts.

final- 65 kts. and 60 kts. over the runway numbers

I use half flaps toward end of downwind, 3/4 flaps base leg, and add full flaps on final.

Use light pressure for rotation and all banks.  Keep ball centered.

 Make sure trim is set correctly, especially for final approach. Use neutral trim for takeoff.

 

My plane is very stable and I did not experience the plus/minus 300 feet you write about.

 Good luck.,  Barry 

*** P.S.,You may want to view Paul Hamilton's free video on You Tube;  he goes through the whole process as expertly as I 



have seen done for a Zodiac 601XLB.  Go to You Tube, type in Paul Hamilton, and find the video for "checklist, takeoff. . . light sport airplane."

 Also it's better to use a flight instructor with light sport experience.  I have heard of non-sport pilot instructors who have had difficulty with light sport aircraft 

because they lacked experience with how light sport aircraft handle.  Do not try to learn to fly this plane on your own:  for one, you may not 

 have insurance coverage if you do.

On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:26 PM, SIDESLIP <Chad2007(at)rogers.com (Chad2007(at)rogers.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Zenith601-List message posted by: "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com (Chad2007(at)rogers.com)>

  

 Hello all, I'm sure some of you recognize my name, as I've been on this forum since sept 2012. I recently purchased a very nice 601XL-B. I've flown one of these right seat with a Jabiru several months ago and was startled at its pitch sensitivity. It took me about 40 mins before I could hold an altitude that didn't vary +300', -300'. Being right seat didn't help matters either. Anyways, the builder is a busy busy man and is quite a ways away, so he won't be able to offer me instruction on this airplane. I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before, this is what is making me a tad anxious. Personally I have over 120 hours in Cessna 152, 172, Cherokee 180's and a bunch of ultralights. I've flown 912 Rotaxes in the past, so I am familiar with the engine, just not in on!

   e of these planes. For the first flight with my instructor, is there anything specific I need to make him aware of? I've got 2 hours on an XL-B, just with the Jabiru, and it was right seat. So, I know they're pitch sensitive, but how are they in the circuit? Any tips that someone could offer would be SUPER greatly appreciated! I really want to get this plane in the air and work off my 5 hours dual. Then I'll be able to go practice local north until my brain bleeds.

  

 My Plane is a 145 total hour airplane with a 912ULS. The airplane is in good shape, and all looks good mechanically. I actually think that I could fly it solo with little effort, but not a smart decision on my part. Dual instruction for me is better, although even though the instructors are so highly experienced, I'm still very much anxious.

  

 Ps. Does anyone know of any experienced flight instructors on type in the Oshawa area?

 

 Thanks guys!

 

 Chad

 

 --------

 C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397711#397711

 

 

 

 

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psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:34 am Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

Hi Chad,



I had a couple of reactions to your comments on flying the Zodiac XL.  

The first is about your problem with pitch sensitivity.  I wonder where 

your CG is.  It sounds like the tiny engine - perhaps combined with a 

couple of hefty people in the seats - might have your CG far aft.  

Perhaps it is too far aft.



The second reaction is about your time in spam cans.  Those part 23 

certified planes are all very docile compared to most experimental 

planes.  Part 23 rules insure this.  When learning to fly experimentals 

you need to focus on your stick and rudder work more than on spam cans.  

It helps to ignore your actual input forces and motions and just use 

whatever is needed to get the pitch, roll, and yaw attitude you want.



My Zodiac XL doesn't seem particularly sensitive to me, but I have been 

flying light sport planes for a number of years.  The last one I had 

before the XL was a lot lighter on the controls.  It was a Tecnam Echo 

Super powered by a 912-ULS.  To get a new person flying that plane I 

always insisted they hold the stick with 2 fingers. That would help keep 

them from over controlling.



I don't think the Zodiac is particularly difficult to fly, but it is not 

as docile as any part 23 plane.  The biggest problem I have had is a 

complete lack of yaw stability.  This seems to come from the all flying 

rudder design that means there is no vertical stabilizer.  There is also 

no part of the fuselage that is parallel to the line of flight because 

of the diamond shape when viewed from the top.  I applied a line of 

automotive colored tape to the top of my engine cowling to show me which 

way is actually straight ahead. This makes me more comfortable knowing 

the plane is actually going straight - even thought the plane doesn't 

really care.  The only time it really matters is when lining up for 

landing where you need to have the plane facing down the runway for a 

smooth touchdown. The lack of a vertical stabilizer also means forward 

slips have little or no impact on your landing approach angle - unlike 

most other planes.  You need to get more than 11 degrees off center on 

the nose to get any result.



Good luck,



Paul

Camas, WA

Zodiac XL, Jab 3300  -  just signed out of phase I flight test.

On 4/2/2013 8:26 PM, SIDESLIP wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hello all, I'm sure some of you recognize my name, as I've been on this forum since sept 2012. I recently purchased a very nice 601XL-B. I've flown one of these right seat with a Jabiru several months ago and was startled at its pitch sensitivity. It took me about 40 mins before I could hold an altitude that didn't vary +300', -300'. Being right seat didn't help matters either. Anyways, the builder is a busy busy man and is quite a ways away, so he won't be able to offer me instruction on this airplane. I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before, this is what is making me a tad anxious. Personally I have over 120 hours in Cessna 152, 172, Cherokee 180's and a bunch of ultralights. I've flown 912 Rotaxes in the past, so I am familiar with the engine, just not in on!

   e of these planes. For the first flight with my instructor, is there anything specific I need to make him aware of? I've got 2 hours on an XL-B, just with the Jabiru, and it was right seat. So, I know they're pitch sensitive, but how are they in the circuit? Any tips that someone could offer would be SUPER greatly appreciated! I really want to get this plane in the air and work off my 5 hours dual. Then I'll be able to go practice local north until my brain bleeds.



 My Plane is a 145 total hour airplane with a 912ULS. The airplane is in good shape, and all looks good mechanically. I actually think that I could fly it solo with little effort, but not a smart decision on my part. Dual instruction for me is better, although even though the instructors are so highly experienced, I'm still very much anxious.



 Ps. Does anyone know of any experienced flight instructors on type in the Oshawa area?



 Thanks guys!



 Chad



 --------

 C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397711#397711





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SIDESLIP

Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Location: CYOO

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:03 am Post subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

Hey guys. No, I've never flown my Rotax powered 601, but flew another pilots 601 with the jabiru. I've never flown the US version of ultralights. I'm in Canada, and all my ultralight experience (20 hours) was in 1232lb gross airframes. Flown the Tecnam Golf, Merlin GT, Challenger, Flightstars etc. I am about a 120 hour certified GA pilot, and all that time is over the last year and a half. So, I fly alot. 



As for the CG, I think on the friends XLB, we would have been slightly aft based on my own calculations later on. 



I've got both Ultralight (which is your sport pilot licenses) not the spam cans, and a lot of GA experience. I actually have some PITTS special stick time as well. Barry, I have seen the video you are referring to. Paul, thanks for the pointers! But no, never flown the equivalent of the US ultralights. All airplanes have been over 1000lbs that I've flown. 



Thanks Guys!



Chad



Ps, I've never flown MY airplane, only the jabiru powered one a friend owns.

_________________
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B

PatrickW

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:54 am Post subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

 	  Quote: 	
		  I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before 	




Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life) with either of those guys.  High logbook hours are very different than relevant experience in a specific airframe.



Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor who actually owns an XL.  



You can find several references on zenith.aero.   Personally, I would recommend Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared me for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!).



Patrick Hoyt

N63PZ

SIDESLIP

Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Location: CYOO

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:05 am Post subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

I agree whole heartedly, but there is no one even close to me at all. I've hunted high and low since September. 



Chad





 	  PatrickW wrote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before 	




Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life) with either of those guys.  High logbook hours are very different than relevant experience in a specific airframe.



Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor who actually owns an XL.  



You can find several references on zenith.aero.   Personally, I would recommend Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared me for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!).



Patrick Hoyt

N63PZ

_________________
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B

dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:48 am Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

Have you contacted the Zenair people up in Midland?

---

zman601xl(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:39 am Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

Chad,

 I agree with Patrick.I drove down to Lawrenceburg (from Niagara Falls,NY) and received a checkout from "Buzz" at Buzz Air. Great guy, great experience! Thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

 Bob Haring  N107RW

    

  

     

  

    zman601xl(at)aol.com

  

     

  

     

  

    --

mtherr(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:25 pm Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

Good thread!  When I did the private license training on my 601, my instructor (who was high time on singles ) took a transition training with a friend who built and flew a 601 HD.  After he felt ok to teach me (5 h), we started my training.   



Sent from my iPhone



On 2013-04-03, at 14:05, "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I agree whole heartedly, but there is no one even close to me at all. I've hunted high and low since September. 

 

 Chad

 

 

 

 

 

 PatrickW wrote:

> 

>> I have two EXTREMELY high time flight instructors that are going to get me my 5 hours training insurance is asking for. One of the pilots has in excess of 17,000 hours single engine piston aircraft. Although neither of the two pilots have flown an XL before

> 

> 

> Chad, please forgive my bluntness, but don't waste your time (or risk your life) with either of those guys.  High logbook hours are very different than relevant experience in a specific airframe.

> 

> Do yourself a favor and get some REAL transition training in an XL, by an instructor who actually owns an XL.  

> 

> You can find several references on zenith.aero.   Personally, I would recommend Buzz Air in Lawrenceburg, TN, who did my transition training and prepared me for my first flight (and it was a heck of a lot of fun!).

> 

> Patrick Hoyt

> N63PZ

 

 

 --------

 C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=397763#397763

SIDESLIP

Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Location: CYOO

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

I actually JUST found a guy through Zenair fairly local that can do type training for me. Stay tuned!



Chad

_________________
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

As a CFII myself, I second Patrick's suggestion that time in type (or at least in similar aircraft) is more important than total hours. I learned a long time ago not to be awed by the hour's in a guy's logbook.  I once had a high time Navy Top Gun Tomcat pilot almost kill me trying to land a C172.



Let us know how it works out.



Tim

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

philand

Joined: 27 Nov 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Mt. Home, AR

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

I have an XL ready for 1st flt. and have read several comments about yaw stability.



As a long time sailplane pilot, I wonder if it would help to put a yaw string on the canopy.  I don't know haw the air currents over the canopy are, but the "yaw string"  (about 6" of yarn) taped to the fwd. canopy is an extremely sensitive coordination indicator.  Has anyone tried this to correct yaw?

_________________
Phil

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:51 pm Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Tim, some times those guys can be fun, though.  Many , many years ago,  I belonged to the New Orleans Navy Aero Club. They had some planes at Alvin  Callender Field, and some at New Orleans Lakefront. It was hilarious to watch  some Navy hot stick with no tail dragger time  jump into a Luscombe, and  snake-track a couple of miles  from the tiedown to the active, (100  yards) generally including at least one 360 degree turn....

  

 Paul R

 [quote]   ---

bryanmmartin

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:29 am Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

I doubt that it would work, the propeller would probably mess up the flow.

-- 

Bryan Martin

N61BM, CH 601 XL, 

RAM Subaru, Stratus re-drive.



On Apr 4, 2013, at 5:09 PM, philand <philand(at)msn.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I have an XL ready for 1st flt. and have read several comments about yaw stability.

 

 As a long time sailplane pilot, I wonder if it would help to put a yaw string on the canopy.  I don't know haw the air currents over the canopy are, but the "yaw string"  (about 6" of yarn) taped to the fwd. canopy is an extremely sensitive coordination indicator.  Has anyone tried this to correct yaw? [Question]

 

 --------

 Phil

_________________
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive.

SIDESLIP

Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Location: CYOO

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

Well all...... Here is my update!



Flew the airplane this weekend past with a 30 plus year , 25,000 hour pilot! It was my only option, as even Zenair didn't have anyone they could reccomend. So, we just went at it. First flight was scary, as we had a BRUTAL propellor vibration and had to get her back on solid ground. We could only muster 4800 rpm! It still climbed 700/min. Changed the prop, hub and spinner from the GSC wooden, set pitch to 14 degrees and went at it again! WOW!!! Climbed 1300'/min at just shy of gross, with a cruise at 5100 rpm of 105kts! Open it to 5200 and I see 110kts all day. Fuel burn was amazing, and all worked well. Oil temps creeped a bit, and I think they'll give me some issues. Any idea if a tab of aluminum under the cowl will help like on the 701's? My cooler is fed by two naca openings. I just don't think the cowl is venting properly. CHT's are great though. 



So, onto the flight review. We flew 5 hours which is what the insurance co wanted. I flew the first half in the right seat with no brakes, radio access to tower and a crappy T-Bar throttle. I made my first 7 landings there! Not a problem at all. Only two issues we found was that it shoots off the runway abruptly, which I'm thinking is too late of rotation. 65kts or so. The second issue was the landings. No matter how hard I try to hold the nose off, it still THUMPS down HARD! Flapless landings went better then expected, as long as you slow the airplane WELL in advance! It refuses to slow down actually! Lol



I performed the balance from the left seat, and was at home there! I flew the airplane completely unassisted the first time, and needed no help in doing so. What a beautiful airplane!!! Killer climb, GREAT cruise..... I'm not touching a THING! Seems set up PERFECT! I don't even run out of trim like everyone else on final with full flaps. It CAN be tricky in the flare solo, wanting to float for days, but almost ALL of my landings were still inside 400'. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the airplane! However, I am still a little nervous because of all the bad press the airplane has had over the years. But, if it doesn't try to kill me, and the engine runs as well as it does, I'm IN LOVE! MAN! What a plane!



Now...... If I could figure out how to get that nose wheel lowered without the thump...... It would be perfect. Total weekend, 5 hours, decent conditions, breathtaking climb rate, and I'm MORE then content with 100kts getting 3.7 gal/hr burn! Just..... What. A. Ride! I went for a solo flight, and didn't really notice the missing 150lb instructor. Same climb, same cruise, but floated on landings much more. I love that Rotax 912ULS. I'VE got the airbox, so I'm sure that helps with power. One MAJOR thing I noticed is how on a takeoff, application of power was unreal! Really pushes you back in the seat on take off and climb out. 



Feedback encouraged! Either way, the type training is done, very successfully as well!



Thanks for all the help!



Chad C-GYXQ

Photo below is after 20 landings and five hours of flight time. She LOVED it almost as much as me!



Here is the second flight quick video. 



http://youtu.be/4r4VVXhYZuI

Ps..... It is for sale. $35,500 cad. Not sure ill have the time to fly as much as I'd like this year. Three kids and one is a newborn. I'm a busy guy....

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_________________
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dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:12 pm Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

I put VGs on the elevator of my 601 HDS and that stopped the thumping of the nose. I can hold the nose off as long as I like now.

Nice airplane.

Regards,

Damien



Sent from my iPad



On May 22, 2013, at 8:41 PM, "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Well all...... Here is my update!

 

 Flew the airplane this weekend past with a 30 plus year , 25,000 hour pilot! It was my only option, as even Zenair didn't have anyone they could reccomend. So, we just went at it. First flight was scary, as we had a BRUTAL propellor vibration and had to get her back on solid ground. We could only muster 4800 rpm! It still climbed 700/min. Changed the prop, hub and spinner from the GSC wooden, set pitch to 14 degrees and went at it again! WOW!!! Climbed 1300'/min at just shy of gross, with a cruise at 5100 rpm of 105kts! Open it to 5200 and I see 110kts all day. Fuel burn was amazing, and all worked well. Oil temps creeped a bit, and I think they'll give me some issues. Any idea if a tab of aluminum under the cowl will help like on the 701's? My cooler is fed by two naca openings. I just don't think the cowl is venting properly. CHT's are great though. 

 

 So, onto the flight review. We flew 5 hours which is what the insurance co wanted. I flew the first half in the right seat with no brakes, radio access to tower and a crappy T-Bar throttle. I made my first 7 landings there! Not a problem at all. Only two issues we found was that it shoots off the runway abruptly, which I'm thinking is too late of rotation. 65kts or so. The second issue was the landings. No matter how hard I try to hold the nose off, it still THUMPS down HARD! Flapless landings went better then expected, as long as you slow the airplane WELL in advance! It refuses to slow down actually! Lol

 

 I performed the balance from the left seat, and was at home there! I flew the airplane completely unassisted the first time, and needed no help in doing so. What a beautiful airplane!!! Killer climb, GREAT cruise..... I'm not touching a THING! Seems set up PERFECT! I don't even run out of trim like everyone else on final with full flaps. It CAN be tricky in the flare solo, wanting to float for days, but almost ALL of my landings were still inside 400'. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the airplane! However, I am still a little nervous because of all the bad press the airplane has had over the years. But, if it doesn't try to kill me, and the engine runs as well as it does, I'm IN LOVE! MAN! What a plane!

 

 Now...... If I could figure out how to get that nose wheel lowered without the thump...... It would be perfect. Total weekend, 5 hours, decent conditions, breathtaking climb rate, and I'm MORE then content with 100kts getting 3.7 gal/hr burn! Just..... What. A. Ride! I went for a solo flight, and didn't really notice the missing 150lb instructor. Same climb, same cruise, but floated on landings much more. I love that Rotax 912ULS. I'VE got the airbox, so I'm sure that helps with power. One MAJOR thing I noticed is how on a takeoff, application of power was unreal! Really pushes you back in the seat on take off and climb out. 

 

 Feedback encouraged! Either way, the type training is done, very successfully as well!

 

 Thanks for all the help!

 

 Chad C-GYXQ

 Photo below is after 20 landings and five hours of flight time. She LOVED it almost as much as me!

 

 Here is the second flight quick video. 

 

 http://youtu.be/4r4VVXhYZuI

 

 

 Ps..... It is for sale. $35,500 cad. Not sure ill have the time to fly as much as I'd like this year. Three kids and one is a newborn. I'm a busy guy.... 

 

 --------

 C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401157#401157

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_164.jpg

dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:28 pm Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

I should have said that I installed the VGs on the horizontal stabilizer, not the elevator.

Regards,

Damien

N48TK

601 HDS with Rotax 912 UL



Sent from my iPad



On May 22, 2013, at 9:12 PM, Damien Graham <dgraham7(at)TWCNY.RR.COM> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I put VGs on the elevator of my 601 HDS and that stopped the thumping of the nose. I can hold the nose off as long as I like now.

 Nice airplane.

 Regards,

 Damien

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

 On May 22, 2013, at 8:41 PM, "SIDESLIP" <Chad2007(at)rogers.com> wrote:

 

> 

> 

> Well all...... Here is my update!

> 

> Flew the airplane this weekend past with a 30 plus year , 25,000 hour pilot! It was my only option, as even Zenair didn't have anyone they could reccomend. So, we just went at it. First flight was scary, as we had a BRUTAL propellor vibration and had to get her back on solid ground. We could only muster 4800 rpm! It still climbed 700/min. Changed the prop, hub and spinner from the GSC wooden, set pitch to 14 degrees and went at it again! WOW!!! Climbed 1300'/min at just shy of gross, with a cruise at 5100 rpm of 105kts! Open it to 5200 and I see 110kts all day. Fuel burn was amazing, and all worked well. Oil temps creeped a bit, and I think they'll give me some issues. Any idea if a tab of aluminum under the cowl will help like on the 701's? My cooler is fed by two naca openings. I just don't think the cowl is venting properly. CHT's are great though. 

> 

> So, onto the flight review. We flew 5 hours which is what the insurance co wanted. I flew the first half in the right seat with no brakes, radio access to tower and a crappy T-Bar throttle. I made my first 7 landings there! Not a problem at all. Only two issues we found was that it shoots off the runway abruptly, which I'm thinking is too late of rotation. 65kts or so. The second issue was the landings. No matter how hard I try to hold the nose off, it still THUMPS down HARD! Flapless landings went better then expected, as long as you slow the airplane WELL in advance! It refuses to slow down actually! Lol

> 

> I performed the balance from the left seat, and was at home there! I flew the airplane completely unassisted the first time, and needed no help in doing so. What a beautiful airplane!!! Killer climb, GREAT cruise..... I'm not touching a THING! Seems set up PERFECT! I don't even run out of trim like everyone else on final with full flaps. It CAN be tricky in the flare solo, wanting to float for days, but almost ALL of my landings were still inside 400'. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the airplane! However, I am still a little nervous because of all the bad press the airplane has had over the years. But, if it doesn't try to kill me, and the engine runs as well as it does, I'm IN LOVE! MAN! What a plane!

> 

> Now...... If I could figure out how to get that nose wheel lowered without the thump...... It would be perfect. Total weekend, 5 hours, decent conditions, breathtaking climb rate, and I'm MORE then content with 100kts getting 3.7 gal/hr burn! Just..... What. A. Ride! I went for a solo flight, and didn't really notice the missing 150lb instructor. Same climb, same cruise, but floated on landings much more. I love that Rotax 912ULS. I'VE got the airbox, so I'm sure that helps with power. One MAJOR thing I noticed is how on a takeoff, application of power was unreal! Really pushes you back in the seat on take off and climb out. 

> 

> Feedback encouraged! Either way, the type training is done, very successfully as well!

> 

> Thanks for all the help!

> 

> Chad C-GYXQ

> Photo below is after 20 landings and five hours of flight time. She LOVED it almost as much as me!

> 

> Here is the second flight quick video. 

> 

> http://youtu.be/4r4VVXhYZuI

> 

> 

> Ps..... It is for sale. $35,500 cad. Not sure ill have the time to fly as much as I'd like this year. Three kids and one is a newborn. I'm a busy guy.... 

> 

> --------

> C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401157#401157

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Attachments: 

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_164.jpg

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Wed May 22, 2013 5:47 pm Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

Hi Chad,



I'm far from an expert after around 50 hours in my XL.  Still, I will 

try to answer a few of your questions.



On take-off it sounds like you are waiting too long to rotate.  If you 

take off with no flaps your stall speed must be no more than 45 knots.  

If you use flaps (like I do) it is even less.  You might try rotating 

shortly after you start your take-off roll and let the plane decide when 

to fly.  I've found 1/2 flaps to be ideal for take-off.  Full flap 

take-off works but the airspeed isn't enough for good control in the 

first stage of flight.  I've never measured my take off roll but I would 

guess it is between 200 and 300 feet. Of course your take-off roll will 

be longer due to your smaller engine - I have a Jabiru 3300.



On the landing issue - it sounds like you are not slowing down enough on 

your final approach.  I try to approach around 60 knots but that is 

probably too fast as well.  Ideal approach speed should be 1.3 times 

your stall speed in your current configuration.  Excess float on landing 

can be fixed with flaps and slower approach speeds.



When you get close to the final landing altitude you should adjust your 

pitch to your desired landing pitch (this is called flaring). If your 

pitch has the nose just above the runway on touchdown it seems unlikely 

the nose will crash down.  If you touch down with the nose wheel very 

high then it can fall and hit the runway harder.



Have fun,



Paul

Camas, WA



On 5/22/2013 5:41 PM, SIDESLIP wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Well all...... Here is my update!



 Flew the airplane this weekend past with a 30 plus year , 25,000 hour pilot! It was my only option, as even Zenair didn't have anyone they could reccomend. So, we just went at it. First flight was scary, as we had a BRUTAL propellor vibration and had to get her back on solid ground. We could only muster 4800 rpm! It still climbed 700/min. Changed the prop, hub and spinner from the GSC wooden, set pitch to 14 degrees and went at it again! WOW!!! Climbed 1300'/min at just shy of gross, with a cruise at 5100 rpm of 105kts! Open it to 5200 and I see 110kts all day. Fuel burn was amazing, and all worked well. Oil temps creeped a bit, and I think they'll give me some issues. Any idea if a tab of aluminum under the cowl will help like on the 701's? My cooler is fed by two naca openings. I just don't think the cowl is venting properly. CHT's are great though.



 So, onto the flight review. We flew 5 hours which is what the insurance co wanted. I flew the first half in the right seat with no brakes, radio access to tower and a crappy T-Bar throttle. I made my first 7 landings there! Not a problem at all. Only two issues we found was that it shoots off the runway abruptly, which I'm thinking is too late of rotation. 65kts or so. The second issue was the landings. No matter how hard I try to hold the nose off, it still THUMPS down HARD! Flapless landings went better then expected, as long as you slow the airplane WELL in advance! It refuses to slow down actually! Lol



 I performed the balance from the left seat, and was at home there! I flew the airplane completely unassisted the first time, and needed no help in doing so. What a beautiful airplane!!! Killer climb, GREAT cruise..... I'm not touching a THING! Seems set up PERFECT! I don't even run out of trim like everyone else on final with full flaps. It CAN be tricky in the flare solo, wanting to float for days, but almost ALL of my landings were still inside 400'. I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the airplane! However, I am still a little nervous because of all the bad press the airplane has had over the years. But, if it doesn't try to kill me, and the engine runs as well as it does, I'm IN LOVE! MAN! What a plane!



 Now...... If I could figure out how to get that nose wheel lowered without the thump...... It would be perfect. Total weekend, 5 hours, decent conditions, breathtaking climb rate, and I'm MORE then content with 100kts getting 3.7 gal/hr burn! Just..... What. A. Ride! I went for a solo flight, and didn't really notice the missing 150lb instructor. Same climb, same cruise, but floated on landings much more. I love that Rotax 912ULS. I'VE got the airbox, so I'm sure that helps with power. One MAJOR thing I noticed is how on a takeoff, application of power was unreal! Really pushes you back in the seat on take off and climb out.



 Feedback encouraged! Either way, the type training is done, very successfully as well!



 Thanks for all the help!



 Chad C-GYXQ

 Photo below is after 20 landings and five hours of flight time. She LOVED it almost as much as me!



 Here is the second flight quick video.



 http://youtu.be/4r4VVXhYZuI

 Ps..... It is for sale. $35,500 cad. Not sure ill have the time to fly as much as I'd like this year. Three kids and one is a newborn. I'm a busy guy.... 



 --------

 C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401157#401157





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/image_164.jpg

SIDESLIP

Joined: 14 Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Location: CYOO

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:40 am Post subject: Re: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

Thanks everyone for all the feedback! I agree, that the rotation speed is too high. As for the landing, I cross the numbers between 60-65kts. I go into the flare, and the mains touch ever so lightly, and I hold the nose up as long as possible. I think this is where the issue is arising. With the nose held off, it suddenly loses elevator authority on the rollout and drops the nose. Next time I fly, I'm going to try to lower the nose fairly quickly, or maybe even fly it onto the runway at a lower speed. These are all flapped landings, usually using full flap on final. 



I mean, other then these two items, she comes off with authority and flies really well. As for the lesser power of the Rotax, I've flown a jabiru 3300 in a 601XLB and it had no where near the pull this Rotax does. It accelerates like nothing very rapidly and climbs unbelievably. This is actually the most surprising part of flying this plane! It still shocks me every time I advance the throttle! The airspeed winds up fast!



Thanks again!



Chad

_________________
C-GYXQ. 912ULS. 601XL-B

jonathan(at)entry.co.za
Guest

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 6:02 am Post subject: New to aircraft, flying tips needed. 601XL-B

I turned my undercart around, when I upgraded to the 'B', best thing I ever 

did, I can hold the nose off, right down to walking speed.



Can do a really short field take-offs - as I can lift the nose wheel long 

before she is ready to fly.



Only thing to watch out for is a heavy passenger climbing in, she can tip on 

her tail.



Jonathan

500hrs + and loving it.



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