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Gordon Anderson
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Switzerland
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 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:59 pm Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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Hi folks,
I am psyching myself up for some bodywork and am looking for guidance on how to do this properly so the filler doesn't all flake off the week after the paint job is finished.
Can anyone recommend or point me towards the magic recipe for finishing around the edges of the door frame and fuselage and for raising the level of the area between the door frame and the rear cabin vents so it matches the door outer surface?
Without any better insight I am currently intending to phosphoric acid etch the aluminum wherever filling is required (ie. everywhere inside the red tape in the photo), and then to bond a thin fiberglass tape over the screws, edges and blind rivets to prevent any filler chipping / falling out in case of poor bonding.
I am also considering a thin layer of glass cloth as a foundation for the filler in the larger area above, below and in front of the vent. What is the experience using epoxy / micro filler directly on etched aluminum without using the cloth / tape?
ANd finally, should I be worried about the phosphoric acid getting under rivet heads and not being flushed out properly?
Any and all comments gratefully received!
Gordon Anderson
41015 Switzerland
[img]cid:9DDFC12B-6230-46EE-9517-51513629192F[/img]
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rleffler
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680
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| Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:42 pm Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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I too was very anxious when I was at your stage of the build. It's most fear of the unknown and learning a new skill. I was fortunate enough that fiberglass sanding was something my wife did almost exclusively.
I didn't etch, but do make sure everything is clean and scuffed up. That will give the epoxy something to hold
Only use micro to fill cosmetic voids. If you need to build something up, like the flat spot that appears to be on all canopies ( rear door frame in the middle of window).
I did fill the heads of the blind rivets and the gap between the aluminum with micro to level, then covered with a layer of glass. I did something similar around the windows too. Then just use micro to level and blend the two surfaces.
You don't want to build up around the vent. Make sure smooth out forward and above the vents. Otherwise it's going to be very visible.
I do have pictures on mykitlog.com site, but I don't know how helpful they will be.
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 5, 2013, at 4:57 PM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch> wrote:
Hi folks,
I am psyching myself up for some bodywork and am looking for guidance on how to do this properly so the filler doesn't all flake off the week after the paint job is finished.
Can anyone recommend or point me towards the magic recipe for finishing around the edges of the door frame and fuselage and for raising the level of the area between the door frame and the rear cabin vents so it matches the door outer surface?
Without any better insight I am currently intending to phosphoric acid etch the aluminum wherever filling is required (ie. everywhere inside the red tape in the photo), and then to bond a thin fiberglass tape over the screws, edges and blind rivets to prevent any filler chipping / falling out in case of poor bonding.
I am also considering a thin layer of glass cloth as a foundation for the filler in the larger area above, below and in front of the vent. What is the experience using epoxy / micro filler directly on etched aluminum without using the cloth / tape?
ANd finally, should I be worried about the phosphoric acid getting under rivet heads and not being flushed out properly?
Any and all comments gratefully received!
Gordon Anderson
41015 Switzerland
<IMG_1004.jpeg>
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler |
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:09 pm Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. Â A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Â Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Â Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. Â SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break 
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. Â If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. Â That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). Â The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Â Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. Â A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. Â I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch (mregoan(at)hispeed.ch)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi folks,
I am psyching myself up for some bodywork and am looking for guidance on how to do this properly so the filler doesn't all flake off the week after the paint job is finished. Â
Can anyone recommend or point me towards the magic recipe for finishing around the edges of the door frame and fuselage and for raising the level of the area between the door frame and the rear cabin vents so it matches the door outer surface?
Without any better insight I am currently intending to phosphoric acid etch the aluminum wherever filling is required (ie. everywhere inside the red tape in the photo), and then to bond a thin fiberglass tape over the screws, edges and blind rivets to prevent any filler chipping / falling out in case of poor bonding. Â
I am also considering a thin layer of glass cloth as a foundation for the filler in the larger area above, below and in front of the vent. Â What is the experience using epoxy / micro filler directly on etched aluminum without using the cloth / tape?
ANd finally, should I be worried about the phosphoric acid getting under rivet heads and not being flushed out properly?
Any and all comments gratefully received!
Gordon Anderson
41015 Switzerland
[img]cid:9DDFC12B-6230-46EE-9517-51513629192F[/img]
|
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:27 pm Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
Bill
On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
[quote] Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. Â A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Â Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Â Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. Â SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. Â If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. Â That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). Â The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Â Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. Â A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. Â I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/13 [b]
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:10 pm Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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I use polyester filler (Bondo from the auto parts store) here and there, especially when I need to hurry things along. Â But only in small areas, because it's relatively heavy, and then I always overlay it with glass. Â While I don't have any long-term test results, my sense is that bondo tends to shrink over time and cause the paint to crack. Â I'm not too concerned if that happens underneath a layer of glass, in non-structural areas. Â For example, I sometimes use micro/epoxy as a replacement for foam or honeycomb core, but I wouldn't use bondo there for fear it might eventually delaminate from the outer skins.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote] Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
Bill
On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. Â A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Â Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Â Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. Â SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. Â If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. Â That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). Â The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Â Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. Â A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. Â I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/13
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:16 pm Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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One other thing--we probably use bondo a lot more often just for gluing fixtures together. Â We glue tables to the floor, parts to tables, etc, pretty regularly. Â Works great for that since it sets up fast and is relatively easy to break free and sand off.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote] Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
Bill
On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. Â A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Â Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Â Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. Â SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. Â If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. Â That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). Â The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Â Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. Â A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. Â I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/13 |
| Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Gordon Anderson
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:17 am Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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Thanks for the comments and support.
Dave, do you also skip the phosphoric acid etch recommended by Vans under the windscreen fairing (Page 45-18 step 9)?
Cheers,
Gordon
On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
[quote]One other thing--we probably use bondo a lot more often just for gluing fixtures together. We glue tables to the floor, parts to tables, etc, pretty regularly. Works great for that since it sets up fast and is relatively easy to break free and sand off.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
Bill
On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/13 |
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:09 am Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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Gordon, I'm sorry, I misspoke.  For no good reason I imagined your etch solution as a home brew of your own making.  Duh, you just meant something like Alumiprep, which we use regularly.  I still don't thing I'd bother with it for a little bodywork--I've had good success with just a light scuff and degreasing.  I >would< use it under the windshield fairing since that area is more critical.
I hope that clears things up a little.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch (mregoan(at)hispeed.ch)> wrote:
[quote] Thanks for the comments and support.
Dave, do you also skip the phosphoric acid etch recommended by Vans under the windscreen fairing (Page 45-18 step 9)?
Cheers,
Gordon
On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | One other thing--we probably use bondo a lot more often just for gluing fixtures together. Â We glue tables to the floor, parts to tables, etc, pretty regularly. Â Works great for that since it sets up fast and is relatively easy to break free and sand off.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
Bill
On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. Â A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Â Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Â Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. Â SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. Â If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. Â That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). Â The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Â Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. Â A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. Â I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/13 |
|
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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Gordon Anderson
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Switzerland
|
| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:56 am Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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|
Dave,
Actually I had intended to take Van's at their word and just use phosphoric acid with a water wash afterwards. I'll skip it altogether for the small bodywork areas and try to get hold of some Alumiprep or alodine for the windshield fairing.
Thanks for the advice,
Gordon
On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
[quote]Gordon, I'm sorry, I misspoke. For no good reason I imagined your etch solution as a home brew of your own making. Duh, you just meant something like Alumiprep, which we use regularly. I still don't thing I'd bother with it for a little bodywork--I've had good success with just a light scuff and degreasing. I >would< use it under the windshield fairing since that area is more critical.
I hope that clears things up a little.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch (mregoan(at)hispeed.ch)> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for the comments and support.
Dave, do you also skip the phosphoric acid etch recommended by Vans under the windscreen fairing (Page 45-18 step 9)?
Cheers,
Gordon
On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | One other thing--we probably use bondo a lot more often just for gluing fixtures together. We glue tables to the floor, parts to tables, etc, pretty regularly. Works great for that since it sets up fast and is relatively easy to break free and sand off.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
Bill
On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/13 |
|
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:22 pm Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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I used vinegar and scorchb
On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch> wrote:
[quote] Dave,
Actually I had intended to take Van's at their word and just use phosphoric acid with a water wash afterwards. I'll skip it altogether for the small bodywork areas and try to get hold of some Alumiprep or alodine for the windshield fairing.
Thanks for the advice,
Gordon
On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
> Gordon, I'm sorry, I misspoke. For no good reason I imagined your etch solution as a home brew of your own making. Duh, you just meant something like Alumiprep, which we use regularly. I still don't thing I'd bother with it for a little bodywork--I've had good success with just a light scuff and degreasing. I >would< use it under the windshield fairing since that area is more critical.
>
> I hope that clears things up a little.
>
> Dave Saylor
> 831-750-0284 CL
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch> wrote:
> Thanks for the comments and support.
>
> Dave, do you also skip the phosphoric acid etch recommended by Vans under the windscreen fairing (Page 45-18 step 9)?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Gordon
>
>
> On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
>
>> One other thing--we probably use bondo a lot more often just for gluing fixtures together. We glue tables to the floor, parts to tables, etc, pretty regularly. Works great for that since it sets up fast and is relatively easy to break free and sand off.
>>
>> Dave Saylor
>> 831-750-0284 CL
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:
>> Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
>>
>> Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
>>> Hi Gordon,
>>>
>>> You're on the right track. A couple of suggestions--
>>>
>>> You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
>>>
>>> If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
>>>
>>> For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:32 pm Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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Try this again
I used vinegar abs scotchbrite pads to rough up the areas that were primed for resin and eventually paint. Seems to have worked well. One must assure the area is cleaned before putting anything on. Soap and water than eventually acetone for resin prep.
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2013, at 1:26 PM, "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)live.com (rv10flyer(at)live.com)> wrote:
[quote]I used vinegar and scorchb
On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:54 PM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch (mregoan(at)hispeed.ch)> wrote:
[quote]Dave,
Actually I had intended to take Van's at their word and just use phosphoric acid with a water wash afterwards. I'll skip it altogether for the small bodywork areas and try to get hold of some Alumiprep or alodine for the windshield fairing.
Thanks for the advice,
Gordon
On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Gordon, I'm sorry, I misspoke. For no good reason I imagined your etch solution as a home brew of your own making. Duh, you just meant something like Alumiprep, which we use regularly. I still don't thing I'd bother with it for a little bodywork--I've had good success with just a light scuff and degreasing. I >would< use it under the windshield fairing since that area is more critical.
I hope that clears things up a little.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch (mregoan(at)hispeed.ch)> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for the comments and support.
Dave, do you also skip the phosphoric acid etch recommended by Vans under the windscreen fairing (Page 45-18 step 9)?
Cheers,
Gordon
On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | One other thing--we probably use bondo a lot more often just for gluing fixtures together. We glue tables to the floor, parts to tables, etc, pretty regularly. Works great for that since it sets up fast and is relatively easy to break free and sand off.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
Bill
On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/13 |
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| Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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The phosphoric acid (Aluminum etch, aluminum bright etc.) cleans the surface of the aluminum and removes some of the natural corrosion present. Alodine is a conversion material that seals the aluminum and makes the surface harder to resist the corrosion down the road. You should clean with soap and water (dish soap works wonders) and some downey fabric softener .... which helps the aluminum wet out, along with red scotchbrite. Then acid etch and alodine. The alodine also gives a little 'tooth' to help paint adhere.
This process has worked wonders for me for many years.
Linn
On 4/7/2013 3:54 PM, Gordon Anderson wrote:
[quote]Dave,
Actually I had intended to take Van's at their word and just use phosphoric acid with a water wash afterwards. I'll skip it altogether for the small bodywork areas and try to get hold of some Alumiprep or alodine for the windshield fairing.
Thanks for the advice,
Gordon
On Apr 7, 2013, at 8:08 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Gordon, I'm sorry, I misspoke. For no good reason I imagined your etch solution as a home brew of your own making. Duh, you just meant something like Alumiprep, which we use regularly. I still don't thing I'd bother with it for a little bodywork--I've had good success with just a light scuff and degreasing. I >would< use it under the windshield fairing since that area is more critical.
I hope that clears things up a little.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 2:17 AM, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch (mregoan(at)hispeed.ch)> wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks for the comments and support.
Dave, do you also skip the phosphoric acid etch recommended by Vans under the windscreen fairing (Page 45-18 step 9)?
Cheers,
Gordon
On Apr 7, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | One other thing--we probably use bondo a lot more often just for gluing fixtures together. We glue tables to the floor, parts to tables, etc, pretty regularly. Works great for that since it sets up fast and is relatively easy to break free and sand off.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
Bill
On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/13 |
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| Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:18 am Post subject: Finishing door frame and bodywork |
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I've been using a so-called higher quality polyester filler, Metal Glaze, to do the final-final smoothing on some areas. Otherwise I've stuck to epoxy with micro or premixed epoxy filler. Will keep monitoring the results.
Thanks.
On 4/6/2013 6:09 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
[quote] I use polyester filler (Bondo from the auto parts store) here and there, especially when I need to hurry things along. Â But only in small areas, because it's relatively heavy, and then I always overlay it with glass. Â While I don't have any long-term test results, my sense is that bondo tends to shrink over time and cause the paint to crack. Â I'm not too concerned if that happens underneath a layer of glass, in non-structural areas. Â For example, I sometimes use micro/epoxy as a replacement for foam or honeycomb core, but I wouldn't use bondo there for fear it might eventually delaminate from the outer skins.
Dave Saylor
831-750-0284 CL
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Question for Dave and others; one thing I started to do, especially on the glass pieces, is to use polyester filler for the final smoothing. It's much easier to use and much more productive because it hardens so fast. So far so good after a 1.5 years of flying.
Recommended? Do others do this? How has it held up?
Bill
On 4/5/2013 11:05 PM, Dave Saylor wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Gordon,
You're on the right track. Â A couple of suggestions--
You'll save a ton of work if you use a pre-mixed filler like SuperFil or similar instead of making your own. Â Not just in mixing but mostly in sanding off the excess. Â Premixed is a lot easier to deal with for a number of reasons. Â SuperFil takes a long time to cure but it gives you a break
If you add more than about 3/32" of filler, then overlay it with a layer of glass cloth. Â If you glass over the bond line between the window and the cabin top you'll prevent the common cracks that tend to show up there.
For the low spot between the window and the door you might consider using something tougher than filler. Â That area sees a lot of traffic. I'd suggest a fairly stiff mixture of flox (also called flocked cotton). Â The flox leaves a hard and rough surface so leave room to overlay that with filler too. Â Be sure to wet the base with plain epoxy before the flox goes on.
I would forgo the aluminum etching. Â A light scuff with something like Scotchbrite pads and degreasing should be more than adequate. Â I'd be a little concerned about getting all the etching material off--but I'm not familiar with the process so maybe that's just me.
Good Luck,
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/06/13
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