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Stripped threads on tail nut.
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Bill Long

Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 19

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:25 pm Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

I noticed that my rudder was not straight up and down on my firefly so I adjusted the left side looser and I was going to tighten the bottom nut as I could see it was loose but the lines were still tight and when I removed the pin it fell off.  The threads were gone on the nut.  The only thing holding my tail was the safety pin.  How tight should the cables be? I was told you should be able to strum them.  I will be getting a new set of nuts and bolts from Kolb.

Bill Long

UL 2 Firefly

Holt MI.



   

 [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:56 pm Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Bill L/Kolbers:

 

That's a 3/16" bolt and nut.  Not a whole lot of meat there.

 

Make sure when tightening the nut, not to go past the threaded portion of the bolt.  If the bolt is too long, it would be easy to do, and easy to strip those tiny threads.

 

That bolt and nut are critical to flight safety.  Probably prove catastrophic if it failed in flight.

 

I personally like the tail wires tight.  My Kolb flies better with tight rather than loose wires.

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Long

Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 5:25 PM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

 

I noticed that my rudder was not straight up and down on my firefly so I adjusted the left side looser and I was going to tighten the bottom nut as I could see it was loose but the lines were still tight and when I removed the pin it fell off.  The threads were gone on the nut.  The only thing holding my tail was the safety pin.  How tight should the cables be? I was told you should be able to strum them.  I will be getting a new set of nuts and bolts from Kolb.



 



Bill Long



UL 2 Firefly



Holt MI.



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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Back in the old days I would use a wingnut on the tailpost and the flying wires weren't too tight on my Firestar. I didn't want to use any tools in the setup to make it easier. Over time, the tangs wore a groove in the sleeves and I could see the wires weren't tight enough. I made new flying wires and started using a nylock nut with a socket to tighten. It has to be loose enough to bring the tangs together at the bottom, yet tight enough when the nut is tightened. The wires aren't drum tight, but secure enough to avoid vibrating and wearing the sleeves. I still fold the wings every time I fly it.



Since the Kolbra is hangered, its flying wires are tighter and it has turnbuckles to tighten.



Ralph B

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

beauford173(at)tampabay.r
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:09 pm Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Ditto, Brother Ralph...



I used that wing-nut arrangement with a safety pin (per the plans) for the

first five or six years, then got to looking at it and

thinking about it...   It was the only wing nut (besides me) on the whole

airplane, and even new a/n wingnuts never did seem to me to grip that

bolt quite as securely as a standard elastic stop nut.  Plus, it was in a

location which was absolutely and positively certain to

ruin your whole tour if it failed.  I feel a lot better with an elastic a/n

nut tightened with a wrench and regularly replaced

(along with the bolt) with a new one...  Those wires  sure make a nice

drumming sound when they are properly tightened.



Wondering.... Do the current plans still call for a wingnut ?



I, too, fold every time I fly, but thus far I have managed to always have

that happen afterwards.



Beauford

FF-076

Brandon, FL



--

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:27 pm Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Bill Long/Kolbers

  

 Wondering if anyone ever tried enlarging the bolt to 1/4 inch?   Would probably weaken the vertical tail post at the point where the bolt goes  through.

  

 Bill Varnes

  

  In a message dated 4/22/2013 6:44:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  blong6826(at)sbcglobal.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  The threads were gone on the  nut 	


 [quote][b]

Bill Long

Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 19

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:05 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

I plan to put two nuts on my new bolt this time.  I don't ever fold it.

From: "WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com" <WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Mon, April 22, 2013 11:30:29 PM

Subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.

        Bill Long/Kolbers

 Wondering if anyone ever tried enlarging the bolt to 1/4 inch?   Would probably weaken the vertical tail post at the point where the bolt goes  through.

 Bill Varnes

  In a message dated 4/22/2013 6:44:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  blong6826(at)sbcglobal.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  The threads were gone on the  nut 	

  	  Quote: 	

 [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:35 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Wondering if anyone ever tried enlarging the bolt to 1/4 inch?  Would probably weaken the vertical tail post at the point where the bolt goes through.



 



Bill Varnes

 	  Quote: 	
		     Bill V/Kolbers: I haven't had a problem using 3/16 on my MKIII with nyloc, being careful not to over torque the little nut. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama 	
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:59 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

I use a full 3/16' castle nut and a safety ring, makes it easy and secure.



Denny Skid Rowe



On Apr 23, 2013, at 7:34 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]    1024x768  <![endif]-->  Clean     false false false  EN-US X-NONE X-NONE           MicrosoftInternetExplorer4              <![endif]-->                                                                                                                                            <![endif]-->/* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable 	{mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; 	mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; 	mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; 	mso-style-noshow:yes; 	mso-style-priority:99; 	mso-style-qformat:yes; 	mso-style-parent:""; 	mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; 	mso-para-margin:0in; 	mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; 	mso-pagination:widow-orphan; 	font-size:10.0pt; 	font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} <![endif]-->  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

 

 



Wondering if anyone ever tried enlarging the bolt to 1/4 inch?  Would probably weaken the vertical tail post at the point where the bolt goes through.



 



Bill Varnes

 	  Quote: 	
		     Bill V/Kolbers: I haven't had a problem using 3/16 on my MKIII with nyloc, being careful not to over torque the little nut. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama 	
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zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:00 pm Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

I also fold the MK3 while in Florida so I kept the wing nut.Also use a slightly longer bolt and a spacer made of 3/16 I.D.steel tubing about 1/4 in.long that gets the wing nut out from under the tang so it's easier to tighten and get the safety pin in .Also keep a little grease on the wing nut face to make it easy to tighten and on ALL of the cable tangs to keep them from wearing where they contact the thimbles.

 G.Aman mk3c 790 hrs Jabiru 2200a 

   

  

     

  

     

  

    --

Arizona Flyer

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Casa Grande Arizona

Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.

I just bought a pre-owned Firestar II. During inspection I was looking at the tail wire bolt, a 'Jesus bolt' some call it. It took quite a bit of force to turn the wing nut far enough to tighten the wires and see the hole for the safety ring and insert it. I noticed the bolt threads were a bit rounded off and the wing nut had marks from pliers over the years (I won't use pliers, fingers only). I could wiggle the wing nut on the bolt enough to make me uncomfortable figuring it might be worn from years of use. I ordered a new bolt & wing nut, I went a grade above AN and went with stainless steel. With the new one I can barely wiggle the wing nut on the threads now, what a nice piece of mind, SAFETY FIRST, always! Please check yours for wear, if you can wiggle that wing nut much please replace it...

_________________
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.

...I went a grade above AN and went with stainless steel...



Stainless Steel hardware is NOT a grade above AN hardware.



http://www.sportair.com/articles/Aircraft%20Hardware%20-%20What%20You%20Need%20To%20Know.html

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Arizona Flyer

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Casa Grande Arizona

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Thom Riddle; Regular AN steel bolts and AN stainless steel bolts are of the same hardness & strength, however stainless steel has added corrosion protection listed as 'corrosion resistant' In my opinion that IS a 'grade above' regular AN although my comment may have implied to some that I felt stainless steel was stronger. I posted something in the interest of safety by checking the tail wire bolt for wore threads and all you can do is pick on my 'grade above' comment? Sheez what a disappointment with a new member on only his second post, I hope you are the exception rather than the standard here...

_________________
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

I wind down pretty hard on my wing nut and had told the list that I had no problems with it for close to 800 hrs.Well, my apologies to the list,I stripped it last Monday.The bolt seems good and I have had a spare wing nut for years.No longer have a spare,and I fold it every time while down south for the winter so I want to keep it quick or I'd find an excuse to not fly it.Probably a good idea to use an AN nut IF you don't fold it on a regular basis and you like the wires bow string tight.

  G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200A 800 hrs

    

  

     

  

     

  

    --

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:39 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

--> <heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com>



Regular AN steel bolts and AN stainless steel bolts are of the same hardness & strength, however stainless steel has added corrosion protection listed as 'corrosion resistant' In my opinion that IS a 'grade above' regular AN although my comment may have implied to some that I felt stainless steel was stronger. I posted something in the interest of safety by checking the tail wire bolt for wore threads and all you can do is pick on my 'grade above' comment? Sheez what a disappointment with a new member on only his second post, I hope you are the exception rather than the standard here...



AZ Fly/Kolbers:



Don't be so sensitive.  We are all entitled to our own opinion, right or wrong.  If someone on the Kolb List sees something that isn't quite kosher, or a way to make something work better or safer, we expect them to speak up.



I use only AN hardware, especially in critical, load bearing situations like the tail wires.



For Kolb tail wires I use only AN nyloc nuts, not AN wing nuts.  The reason I use a nyloc intead of wing nut is the bolt is used in stress, rather than shear.  Don't believe the wingnut was intended to be used in stress.  I may be wrong, but I don't use them.



I also insert the lower tailwire bolt from left to right, looking at the tailpost from the rear.  This way the nyloc nut will be tightened rather than loosened when landing/taking off/taxiing through tall grass, brush, weeds, etc.  My first off field landing in Alaska in 1994, on an old dirt strip called Sparky, in my MKIII, nearly resulted in a disaster, when the Alder bushes that covered the abandoned strip unscrewed the nyloc nut on my lower tailwire bolt.  I had inserted the bolt from right to left.



While I am at it, the only way to know what the stall speed of an aircraft is is to stall it.  That should be done at a safe altitude and note on approach.



john h

mkIII

Mobile, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:43 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

I wind down pretty hard on my wing nut and had told the list that I had no problems with it for close to 800 hrs.Well, my apologies to the list,I stripped it last Monday.The bolt seems good and I have had a spare wing nut for years.No longer have a spare,and I fold it every time while down south for the winter so I want to keep it quick or I'd find an excuse to not fly it.Probably a good idea to use an AN nut IF you don't fold it on a regular basis and you like the wires bow string tight.

 G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200A 800 hrs

Gary A/Kolbers:



Doesn't take any longer to screw on a 3/6 nyloc than a wing nut.  You can use a nut driver to do it.  Even if you need to change nuts every 4 or 5 flights, that is still money well spent.



john h

mkIII

Mobile, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

beauford173(at)tampabay.r
Guest

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 9:53 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

--

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Arizona Flyer,



In your original post you did not state AN Stainless, only stainless. There are a lot of folks who are not aware of the big differences in hardware that meets the aircraft quality standards and hardware store hardware, whether stainless or not. Since you are new to the list those of us who have been here awhile don't know your level of knowledge.  This is an important safety of flight issue that deserves to be treated seriously. 



I am sorry if you were offended. That was not my intention.



Perhaps you could tell the list a bit about yourself including your actual name. For what its worth, I have been a private pilot since 1966 and mechanic since 1972 and have owned 3 Kolbs, and several other airplanes over the years. I was also a sport pilot instructor but am not current in that role. 



Thom in Buffalo

https://sites.google.com/site/riddletr/a&pmechanix

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Arizona Flyer

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Casa Grande Arizona

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Thom Riddle; You are correct Sir, I apologize. Looking back at my comment now, I can see where it looks like I ditched AN bolt and went with stainless steel bolt instead. I should have said AN stainless steel, my fault and I'm glad now that you pointed it out. It caused me enough concern to spend an hour researching AN steel bolt vs. AN stainless steel bolt and I got a good education about the difference and I thank you for that. I have been on forums where some guys love to be critical and pick apart everything others say to feed their ego and feel superior and I have a low tolerance for them. I mistakenly thought you might be one of them and realize now you are not. Thanks for the kind reply... Peace... My name is Jeff Jacobsen, I used to live in Lake Geneva Wisconsin on 18 acres with a private grass airstrip and large hangar. In my flying days there I had in progression a Quicksilver Sprint II, then a Quicksilver Sport, then an Advanced Aviation Buccaneer SX amphibian, then a Rans S-12, then built an Avid Flyer Mark IV with a Stratus Subaru engine, finally a Rans S-7 Courier that I loved but sold in 2002. I flew so much that I wore it out, the 'magic' was gone and I did not like that so I decided to take some years off from flying. In 2006 I retired and moved to the southern Arizona town of Casa Grande. I have 40 acres by the mountains and fly RC airplanes a lot. I figured the itch to get back into the sky would hit me someday and 2 years ago I took a ride in a trike, and that wonderful feeling of ultimate freedom & peace came over me again and was re-hooked, I had been away from flying for 11 years and the magic was finally back. 3 weeks ago I took delivery of a beautiful yellow Firestar II expertly built by Gary Aman. I just got off the phone with Gary for 2 hours and he was most generous and helpful. Thanks John Hauck for the input here. I may be too sensitive at times but I hate forum bullies and come down hard on them, I was wrong this time. Thom was right, my mistake may have led to some newer pilot going down to the hardware store or boat shop for a stainless steel bolt that is not AN! SAFETY FIRST, always!

_________________
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Sat May 11, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Castle nut and safety ring. Done.  just sayin



Skid Rowe

On May 11, 2013, at 1:43 PM, <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I wind down pretty hard on my wing nut and had told the list that I had no problems with it for close to 800 hrs.Well, my apologies to the list,I stripped it last Monday.The bolt seems good and I have had a spare wing nut for years.No longer have a spare,and I fold it every time while down south for the winter so I want to keep it quick or I'd find an excuse to not fly it.Probably a good idea to use an AN nut IF you don't fold it on a regular basis and you like the wires bow string tight.

 G.Aman MK3C Jabiru 2200A 800 hrs

 

 

 Gary A/Kolbers:

 

 Doesn't take any longer to screw on a 3/6 nyloc than a wing nut.  You can use a nut driver to do it.  Even if you need to change nuts every 4 or 5 flights, that is still money well spent.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Mobile, Alabama

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 4:19 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.

Jeff,

Welcome to the Kolb list and thanks for a bit about your background. We now know you are not a complete novice. Of course we were all complete novices at some point. We welcome novices with the same open arms as those with more experience. 



Having access to friendly and helpful folks with more experience in particular things is something that the internet makes so easy these days. This list is one of the very best in that regard, but we have had a few "bullies" whose purpose on the list was self-aggrandizement at other's expense. In time they usually just go away when we ignore them.



Even though I just sold my Slingshot, I expect to be on the Kolb List for the duration of my flying life. It is a great bunch.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

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