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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 1671 Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 5:50 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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[quote="rowedenny"]Castle nut and safety ring. Done. just sayin
Skid Rowe
[quote]
I don't like the safety ring in that location. A safety ring up and away from the grass is one thing, but a safety ring that close to the grass would make me very uneasy. Likewise a "safety pin" type of clip. That close to the grass, I would want to use something that no errant bit of grass or twig could snatch off. Either a cotter pin or a short length of safety wire. On my MKIII, I use a normal AN locknut with the plastic insert, and don't reuse them.
And I also like John's method of inserting them so that any grass friction will tend to tighten, rather than loosen the nut.
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_________________ Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n Guest
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 5:58 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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I noted on my old Firestar that the safety pin type clip gets bent in the linkage. I think a lock nut of some type is safer. maybe a "stove type" lock nut would last better than a nylock.
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
--- On Sun, 5/12/13, Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org> wrote:
[quote]
From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>
Subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Sunday, May 12, 2013, 9:50 AM
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <[url=/mc/compose?to=richard(at)bcchapel.org]richard(at)bcchapel.org[/url]>
[quote="rowedenny"]Castle nut and safety ring. Done. just sayin
Skid Rowe
[quote]
I don't like the safety ring in that location. A safety ring up and away from the grass is one thing, but a safety ring that close to the grass would make me very uneasy. Likewise a "safety pin" type of clip. That close to the grass, I would want to use something that no errant bit of grass or twig could snatch off. Either a cotter pin or a short length of safety wire. On my MKIII, I use a normal AN locknut with the plastic insert, and don't reuse them.
And I also like John's method of inserting them so that any grass friction will tend to tighten, rather than loosen the nut.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400410#400========================http://www.matronics.com/Navigatsp; - MATRONICS WEB FO" bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Adontribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution [quote][b]
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rowedenny
Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 338 Location: Western PA
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:27 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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Richard,
I agree that the safety pin style clip would scare me there, but I have no such concern with a good small safety ring with no easy start end.
Skid Rowe
On May 12, 2013, at 9:50 AM, "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org> wrote:
[quote]
[quote="rowedenny"]Castle nut and safety ring. Done. just sayin
Skid Rowe
Quote: |
I don't like the safety ring in that location. A safety ring up and away from the grass is one thing, but a safety ring that close to the grass would make me very uneasy. Likewise a "safety pin" type of clip. That close to the grass, I would want to use something that no errant bit of grass or twig could snatch off. Either a cotter pin or a short length of safety wire. On my MKIII, I use a normal AN locknut with the plastic insert, and don't reuse them.
And I also like John's method of inserting them so that any grass friction will tend to tighten, rather than loosen the nut.
--------
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400410#400410
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Frankd
Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 64
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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Hi Kolbers,
If the threads can become stripped on such a safety key component, I'd suggest using a slightly longer AN bolt and use two nuts and either Nylock or I like castle nuts and a cotter pin. Or both.. That way there is twice the grip area on the bolt.
I have noticed that my tangs have bent out from the bolt or nut head and maybe a washer would help retain the original bend point.
I never thought about grass unwinding the nut, but I'm going to put my new bolt in left to right... Tkx John.
FrankD
MkiiiXtra
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Arizona Flyer
Joined: 09 May 2013 Posts: 31 Location: Casa Grande Arizona
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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Thom; Thank you for the nice note and welcome kind Sir. I think my over-reaction came from belonging to an RC model airplane forum 'RCGroups' where there are several bully-know-it-all types that get worse over time, they scare away many newcomers who become afraid to post anything for fear of being sliced up again. Lately I reminded myself that most aviation folks are automatically a higher quality group of people than the general public. Out of the 7 airplanes I've owned I built 2 of them, the Quicksilver Sprint II which was a joy to build, and the Avid flyer Mark IV that became so long & difficult that I swore 'never again' will I build another airplane like that. I would consider another 'erector set' like the Quicksilver type with Dacron wings and bolt together construction. When I became keen on the Kolbs I knew I had to find one already built and I found a real beauty at a great price. Thanks again Thom I'm glad to be here Side note question? If you type a post long enough here, the words overlap and you can't see what your typing anymore. Is this common or do I have a glitch? Thanks...
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_________________ "Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death" |
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1597 Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 8:51 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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Jeff,
If you mean the text goes to the right side of the window, that sometimes happens when a larger-than-needed photo is posted in that thread... I think, but that is just a guess.
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_________________ Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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Arizona Flyer
Joined: 09 May 2013 Posts: 31 Location: Casa Grande Arizona
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 9:16 am Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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Thom, no right side, no photos. Just regular typing in the 'post reply' window and when the paragraph gets long enough it starts overlapping words at the top, then eventually it goes all the way to the bottom where I'm typing new words and I can no longer see what I'm typing. When that happens I write my comment out in my e-mail system then copy & paste it here in a new window that I cleared. It works well but I'd rather figure out what's going on here. Maybe a moderator will see this and offer help. I have not seen a 'contact moderator' button anywhere here to ask for help. No big deal just a minor annoyance. Thanks...
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_________________ "Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death" |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4639 Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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Posted: Sun May 12, 2013 12:21 pm Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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If the threads can become stripped on such a safety key component, I'd
suggest using a slightly longer AN bolt and use two nuts and either Nylock
or I like castle nuts and a cotter pin. Or both.. That way there is twice
the grip area on the bolt.
I have noticed that my tangs have bent out from the bolt or nut head and
maybe a washer would help retain the original bend point.
I never thought about grass unwinding the nut, but I'm going to put my new
bolt in left to right... Tkx John.
FrankD
MkiiiXtra
Frank D/Kolbers:
If installed correctly, not over torqued, the 3/16 AN bolt and nut will not
strip using a nyloc nut. Most AN 3/16 nuts that strip threads are because
they are tightened all the way down to the end of the threads and are
bottomed out and over torqued.
Important to insure the wire tangs are bent to mirror the angle of the wire
and the tube surface they are being tightened against. Most Kolb wire tangs
I see in my travels are not bent correctly and tail wires are too loose.
I personally believe any type wire safety device, hair pin, ring, etc., are
prone to failure when operated in any environment other than a groomed grass
strip or paved airstrip. I have put a lot of hours on factory Kolbs
configured exactly like the plans and instructions call for, but I was not
flying off unimproved strips or taxiing in tall grass, weeds, brush, etc.,
where the device could be damaged and/or pulled off.
My MKIII is very heavy, especially on the tail. I keep the tail wires
"banjo" tight. Kolbs, all models, fly much better with tight tail wires
than with loose wires. Never had an AN 3/16 nyloc nut fail or strip
threads. Again, I did come close to a catastrophic tail wire failure when
alder brush backed off the nyloc to within a couple threads. If you use
nylocs on the bottom tail wire bolt, be sure and insert right to left as
viewed from the rear, so the nut with be tightened rather than loosened.
john h
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
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_________________ John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Posts: 1392 Location: Udall, KS, USA
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:37 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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No moderator here, folks. However, I would echo our hosts request that the phrase, "Do not archive" be put on non technical discussions so at not to clog the forum's servers.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Arizona Flyer <heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com (heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Arizona Flyer" <heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com (heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com)>
Thom, no right side, no photos. Just regular typing in the 'post reply' window and when the paragraph gets long enough it starts overlapping words at the top, then eventually it goes all the way to the bottom where I'm typing new words and I can no longer see what I'm typing. When that happens I write my comment out in my e-mail system then copy & paste it here in a new window that I cleared. It works well but I'd rather figure out what's going on here. Maybe a moderator will see this and offer help. I have not seen a 'contact moderator' button anywhere here to ask for help. No big deal just a minor annoyance. Thanks...
--------
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400420#400420
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Posts: 1392 Location: Udall, KS, USA
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 8:47 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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John. Doesn't installing the bolt from right to left as seen from the rear put the threads in a position such that grass hitting the bottom of the nut would work to loosen it, assuming a standard righty tighty thread?
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 3:20 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
If the threads can become stripped on such a safety key component, I'd
suggest using a slightly longer AN bolt and use two nuts and either Nylock
or I like castle nuts and a cotter pin. Or both.. That way there is twice
the grip area on the bolt.
I have noticed that my tangs have bent out from the bolt or nut head and
maybe a washer would help retain the original bend point.
I never thought about grass unwinding the nut, but I'm going to put my new
bolt in left to right... Tkx John.
FrankD
MkiiiXtra
Frank D/Kolbers:
If installed correctly, not over torqued, the 3/16 AN bolt and nut will not
strip using a nyloc nut. Most AN 3/16 nuts that strip threads are because
they are tightened all the way down to the end of the threads and are
bottomed out and over torqued.
Important to insure the wire tangs are bent to mirror the angle of the wire
and the tube surface they are being tightened against. Most Kolb wire tangs
I see in my travels are not bent correctly and tail wires are too loose.
I personally believe any type wire safety device, hair pin, ring, etc., are
prone to failure when operated in any environment other than a groomed grass
strip or paved airstrip. I have put a lot of hours on factory Kolbs
configured exactly like the plans and instructions call for, but I was not
flying off unimproved strips or taxiing in tall grass, weeds, brush, etc.,
where the device could be damaged and/or pulled off.
My MKIII is very heavy, especially on the tail. I keep the tail wires
"banjo" tight. Kolbs, all models, fly much better with tight tail wires
than with loose wires. Never had an AN 3/16 nyloc nut fail or strip
threads. Again, I did come close to a catastrophic tail wire failure when
alder brush backed off the nyloc to within a couple threads. If you use
nylocs on the bottom tail wire bolt, be sure and insert right to left as
viewed from the rear, so the nut with be tightened rather than loosened.
john h
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
[quote][b]
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4639 Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:00 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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Thanks for correcting me. Left to right is what I should have said. Doesn't pay to post when overly tired, does it.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 11:47 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut.
John. Doesn't installing the bolt from right to left as seen from the rear put the threads in a position such that grass hitting the bottom of the nut would work to loosen it, assuming a standard righty tighty thread?
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 3:20 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
If the threads can become stripped on such a safety key component, I'd
suggest using a slightly longer AN bolt and use two nuts and either Nylock
or I like castle nuts and a cotter pin. Or both.. That way there is twice
the grip area on the bolt.
I have noticed that my tangs have bent out from the bolt or nut head and
maybe a washer would help retain the original bend point.
I never thought about grass unwinding the nut, but I'm going to put my new
bolt in left to right... Tkx John.
FrankD
MkiiiXtra
Frank D/Kolbers:
If installed correctly, not over torqued, the 3/16 AN bolt and nut will not
strip using a nyloc nut. Most AN 3/16 nuts that strip threads are because
they are tightened all the way down to the end of the threads and are
bottomed out and over torqued.
Important to insure the wire tangs are bent to mirror the angle of the wire
and the tube surface they are being tightened against. Most Kolb wire tangs
I see in my travels are not bent correctly and tail wires are too loose.
I personally believe any type wire safety device, hair pin, ring, etc., are
prone to failure when operated in any environment other than a groomed grass
strip or paved airstrip. I have put a lot of hours on factory Kolbs
configured exactly like the plans and instructions call for, but I was not
flying off unimproved strips or taxiing in tall grass, weeds, brush, etc.,
where the device could be damaged and/or pulled off.
My MKIII is very heavy, especially on the tail. I keep the tail wires
"banjo" tight. Kolbs, all models, fly much better with tight tail wires
than with loose wires. Never had an AN 3/16 nyloc nut fail or strip
threads. Again, I did come close to a catastrophic tail wire failure when
alder brush backed off the nyloc to within a couple threads. If you use
nylocs on the bottom tail wire bolt, be sure and insert right to left as
viewed from the rear, so the nut with be tightened rather than loosened.
john h
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
01234567890123
[quote][b]
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_________________ John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 1494 Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 9:40 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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Wouldn't it be easier if Matt would turn it the other way around and make it so that we would have to request it be archived if the one who posted, thought that it might be of importance???? Its got a much better chance of happening. It wouldn't be so bad if one could make a "signature" that would work on just the one email address. I feel kind of silly having that at the bottom of ever email I send. Just saying! Larry
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote: | No moderator here, folks. However, I would echo our hosts request that the phrase, "Do not archive" be put on non technical discussions so at not to clog the forum's servers.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Sun, May 12, 2013 at 12:16 PM, Arizona Flyer <heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com (heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Arizona Flyer" <heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com (heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com)>
Thom, no right side, no photos. Just regular typing in the 'post reply' window and when the paragraph gets long enough it starts overlapping words at the top, then eventually it goes all the way to the bottom where I'm typing new words and I can no longer see what I'm typing. When that happens I write my comment out in my e-mail system then copy & paste it here in a new window that I cleared. It works well but I'd rather figure out what's going on here. Maybe a moderator will see this and offer help. I have not seen a 'contact moderator' button anywhere here to ask for help. No big deal just a minor annoyance. Thanks...
--------
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400420#400420
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.
[quote][b]
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_________________ do not archive |
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Arizona Flyer
Joined: 09 May 2013 Posts: 31 Location: Casa Grande Arizona
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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I just ordered a castle nut for my tail wire bolt so I would have a couple more threads instead of the wing nut that has only 2 or 3 threads. I figure I can gently tighten the castle nut with a socket then put the safety ring in the bolt hole. My fingers get sore trying to turn my wing nut enough for decent cable tension. Having a hard time finding a couple spare safety rings in case I loose my one. I put a call into Travis (at) Kolb hoping he has a couple to send along with my new tail wheel replacement I just ordered. My tail wheel bearing seems to be binding some as the wheel does not rotate freely, it won't spin without helping it along.
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russk50(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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I think McMasters-Carr has every size circlip you can imagine. Good service too.
do not archive
Russ K
On May 13, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Arizona Flyer wrote:
Quote: |
I just ordered a castle nut for my tail wire bolt so I would have a couple more threads instead of the wing nut that has only 2 or 3 threads. I figure I can gently tighten the castle nut with a socket then put the safety ring in the bolt hole. My fingers get sore trying to turn my wing nut enough for decent cable tension. Having a hard time finding a couple spare safety rings in case I loose my one. I put a call into Travis (at) Kolb hoping he has a couple to send along with my new tail wheel replacement I just ordered. My tail wheel bearing seems to be binding some as the wheel does not rotate freely, it won't spin without helping it along.
--------
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400557#400557
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 1047 Location: Connecticut, USA
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Posted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:43 pm Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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You can also cut them out of a spring. One spring of the right size can make a lot of circlips.
Dana
At 08:21 PM 5/13/2013, kinne russ wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com>
I think McMasters-Carr has every size circlip you can imagine. Good service too.
do not archive
Russ K
On May 13, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Arizona Flyer wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Arizona Flyer" <heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com>
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> I just ordered a castle nut for my tail wire bolt so I would have a couple more threads instead of the wing nut that has only 2 or 3 threads. I figure I can gently tighten the castle nut with a socket then put the safety ring in the bolt hole. My fingers get sore trying to turn my wing nut enough for decent cable tension. Having a hard time finding a couple spare safety rings in case I loose my one. I put a call into Travis (at) Kolb hoping he has a couple to send along with my new tail wheel replacement I just ordered. My tail wheel bearing seems to be binding some as the wheel does not rotate freely, it won't spin without helping it along.
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> "Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"
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> Read this topic online here:
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> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400557#400557
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zeprep251(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:35 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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A problem with using a nyloc nut on the tail post is using a drilled bolt.As the nut passes the drilled hole it cuts the nylon out of the nut like a lathe,which pretty much negates the advantage of a locking nut.A tall castellated nut and a stainless lock ring are probably my best options.I found those locking rings at a marina that carried sailing boat accessories,
G.Aman
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 4639 Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:00 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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A problem with using a nyloc nut on the tail post is using a drilled bolt.As the nut passes the drilled hole it cuts the nylon out of the nut like a lathe,which pretty much negates the advantage of a locking nut.A tall castellated nut and a stainless lock ring are probably my best options.I found those locking rings at a marina that carried sailing boat accessories,
G.Aman
[quote] Kolbers: Use a bolt that is not drilled. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama [b]
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_________________ John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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neilsenrm(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:23 am Post subject: Stripped threads on tail nut. |
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I have never had a problem with the wing nuts and the safety rings even in deep grass. If you are that concerned you could try what I use on my prop. I use a standard nut so I can get good torque readings then I put a nylock nut on as a lock nut.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 9:00 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote]
A problem with using a nyloc nut on the tail post is using a drilled bolt.As the nut passes the drilled hole it cuts the nylon out of the nut like a lathe,which pretty much negates the advantage of a locking nut.A tall castellated nut and a stainless lock ring are probably my best options.I found those locking rings at a marina that carried sailing boat accessories,
G.Aman
Quote: | Kolbers: Use a bolt that is not drilled. john hmkIIITitus, Alabama | 0
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