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altman51
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Savannah, GA
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 Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 9:57 am Post subject: Turning prop wrong direction |
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I am a new CJ operator. Recently was starting my CJ and had head buried in the cockpit. A friend was proping for me and turned 6 times wrong direction.
Now the start valve will not open. Any suggestions - information on what happened, etc?
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 10:17 am Post subject: Turning prop wrong direction |
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Actually the air start valve has nothing to do with turning the prop
backwards.
Many of the air start valves on the firewall have a lever on the side
just for situations like this. It's for manually opening the valve when
electrically it won't open. Turn on the main air and simply flip the
lever on the air start valve and the valve will open.
Low battery voltage (less than 23 volts) will cause the air start
solenoid not to open sometimes. So first check your battery voltage.
Sometimes "popping" the start button rapidly will force the electrical
solenoid to activate and open the air start valve.
If your battery voltage is at 24 or above, if the air start valve still
will not open, then typically the air start valve is gunked up. This
causes it not to activate. You can try removing it from the firewall
and flushing it out, then drying it out thoroughly and reinstalling it.
If this doesn't work, call Doug and order a new one.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/15/2013 12:57 PM, altman51 wrote:
| Quote: |
I am a new CJ operator. Recently was starting my CJ and had head buried in the cockpit. A friend was proping for me and turned 6 times wrong direction.
Now the start valve will not open. Any suggestions - information on what happened, etc?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400696#400696
|
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 11:17 am Post subject: Turning prop wrong direction |
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I'd like to add to Dennis's remarks. On the Chinese made air start valve (on CJs) there is no little lever, BUT there are 2 small rectangular slots. You can put a small flat screw blade in the slot and open the air valve that. This is the very same thing that little lever does on the Russian valves. Also - if you have an alternator and NOT a generator, if the battery is dead, yes you can start the engine, BUT you may not have enough juice in the battery to get the alternator to running. Thus the battery stays dead. Numerous other problems can result.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 5/15/2013 2:18:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net writes:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
Actually the air start valve has nothing to do with turning the prop
backwards.
Many of the air start valves on the firewall have a lever on the side
just for situations like this. It's for manually opening the valve when
electrically it won't open. Turn on the main air and simply flip the
lever on the air start valve and the valve will open.
Low battery voltage (less than 23 volts) will cause the air start
solenoid not to open sometimes. So first check your battery voltage.
Sometimes "popping" the start button rapidly will force the electrical
solenoid to activate and open the air start valve.
If your battery voltage is at 24 or above, if the air start valve still
will not open, then typically the air start valve is gunked up. This
causes it not to activate. You can try removing it from the firewall
and flushing it out, then drying it out thoroughly and reinstalling it.
If this doesn't work, call Doug and order a new one.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/15/2013 12:57 PM, altman51 wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "altman51" <waltman51(at)comcast.net>
I am a new CJ operator. Recently was starting my CJ and had head buried in the cockpit. A friend was proping for me and turned 6 times wrong direction.
Now the start valve will not open. Any suggestions - information on what happened, etc?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400696#400696
< ies ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site p;
|
|
[quote][b]
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: Turning prop wrong direction |
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Guys,
Ya’ll are completely missing point here. He pulled the prop backwards 10 times. You are not thinking of the Chinese gerbils. He has gotten those little buggars completely confused running around in the accessory case now. They do not know which way to run. They are screwed like a Chinese Fire Drill. They don't know whether to blow air in the compressor or suck air through the start valve. They are totally disoriented now. With 9 turns of the prop backwards they could have recovered from but oh no not ten! I have been told you are going to have to use the left leaning gerbil up the exhaust trick.
Never tried that though since my stacks all read exhaust only on the placard. Rich says it worked on his CJ but that is hearsay but hell, he’s had his tail off in Gasden for a couple of years now. Just have to take his word for it. MMO might fix it too. Get those Gerbils drunk on MMO and you never know what they’ll do from there! It’s like Vodka Friday in Russia when that happens!
Just my 2 cents,
Gives new meaning to CHECK 6 when CJ are in the pattern doesn’t it?
:^))
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:14 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Turning prop wrong direction
I'd like to add to Dennis's remarks. On the Chinese made air start valve (on CJs) there is no little lever, BUT there are 2 small rectangular slots. You can put a small flat screw blade in the slot and open the air valve that. This is the very same thing that little lever does on the Russian valves. Also - if you have an alternator and NOT a generator, if the battery is dead, yes you can start the engine, BUT you may not have enough juice in the battery to get the alternator to running. Thus the battery stays dead. Numerous other problems can result.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 5/15/2013 2:18:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net writes:
| Quote: |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
Actually the air start valve has nothing to do with turning the prop
backwards.
Many of the air start valves on the firewall have a lever on the side
just for situations like this. It's for manually opening the valve when
electrically it won't open. Turn on the main air and simply flip the
lever on the air start valve and the valve will open.
Low battery voltage (less than 23 volts) will cause the air start
solenoid not to open sometimes. So first check your battery voltage.
Sometimes "popping" the start button rapidly will force the electrical
solenoid to activate and open the air start valve.
If your battery voltage is at 24 or above, if the air start valve still
will not open, then typically the air start valve is gunked up. This
causes it not to activate. You can try removing it from the firewall
and flushing it out, then drying it out thoroughly and reinstalling it.
If this doesn't work, call Doug and order a new one.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/15/2013 12:57 PM, altman51 wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "altman51" <waltman51(at)comcast.net>
I am a new CJ operator. Recently was starting my CJ and had head buried in the cockpit. A friend was proping for me and turned 6 times wrong direction.
Now the start valve will not open. Any suggestions - information on what happened, etc?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400696#400696
< ies ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site p;
|
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:35 pm Post subject: Turning prop wrong direction |
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Now Doc there you go again show you prejudice. Its obvious the prop turner was taken in by the sleek and lean lines of the CJ plus its canted wings ala US Corsair and just naturally swung the prop the wrong way. Now I happen to know that the sub species (Chinkgerbilus) that is centered in the area of Nanchang, are quite smart as rodents go, and could quickly return to a normal orientation if spun backward, unlike the Ruskiegerbilus from the west of the Ural mountains, which are notorious for its females being over weight BTW. Also BTW Chinkgerbilus are not effected by MMO. While its be known that they get a slight "buzz" from it, their real down fall (if you could call it that) is sake. That is the Chinese sake to be precise (also used a jet fuel).
Given time and the proper direction this engine should have started. Me thinks other factors were involved. I.E. was the fuel valve turned on?
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 5/15/2013 4:56:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, viperdoc(at)mindspring.com writes:
| Quote: |
Guys,
Ya’ll are completely missing point here. He pulled the prop backwards 10 times. You are not thinking of the Chinese gerbils. He has gotten those little buggars completely confused running around in the accessory case now. They do not know which way to run. They are screwed like a Chinese Fire Drill. They don't know whether to blow air in the compressor or suck air through the start valve. They are totally disoriented now. With 9 turns of the prop backwards they could have recovered from but oh no not ten! I have been told you are going to have to use the left leaning gerbil up the exhaust trick.
Never tried that though since my stacks all read exhaust only on the placard. Rich says it worked on his CJ but that is hearsay but hell, he’s had his tail off in Gasden for a couple of years now. Just have to take his word for it. MMO might fix it too. Get those Gerbils drunk on MMO and you never know what they’ll do from there! It’s like Vodka Friday in Russia when that happens!
Just my 2 cents,
Gives new meaning to CHECK 6 when CJ are in the pattern doesn’t it?
:^))
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:14 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Yak-List: Turning prop wrong direction
I'd like to add to Dennis's remarks. On the Chinese made air start valve (on CJs) there is no little lever, BUT there are 2 small rectangular slots. You can put a small flat screw blade in the slot and open the air valve that. This is the very same thing that little lever does on the Russian valves. Also - if you have an alternator and NOT a generator, if the battery is dead, yes you can start the engine, BUT you may not have enough juice in the battery to get the alternator to running. Thus the battery stays dead. Numerous other problems can result.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 5/15/2013 2:18:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net writes:
| Quote: |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>
Actually the air start valve has nothing to do with turning the prop
backwards.
Many of the air start valves on the firewall have a lever on the side
just for situations like this. It's for manually opening the valve when
electrically it won't open. Turn on the main air and simply flip the
lever on the air start valve and the valve will open.
Low battery voltage (less than 23 volts) will cause the air start
solenoid not to open sometimes. So first check your battery voltage.
Sometimes "popping" the start button rapidly will force the electrical
solenoid to activate and open the air start valve.
If your battery voltage is at 24 or above, if the air start valve still
will not open, then typically the air start valve is gunked up. This
causes it not to activate. You can try removing it from the firewall
and flushing it out, then drying it out thoroughly and reinstalling it.
If this doesn't work, call Doug and order a new one.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/15/2013 12:57 PM, altman51 wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "altman51" <waltman51(at)comcast.net>
I am a new CJ operator. Recently was starting my CJ and had head buried in the cockpit. A friend was proping for me and turned 6 times wrong direction.
Now the start valve will not open. Any suggestions - information on what happened, etc?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400696#400696
< ies ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site p;
|
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
8 |
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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hess737(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:38 pm Post subject: Turning prop wrong direction |
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Mongoose flies !!!
Richard HessC 404-964-4885
On May 15, 2013, at 16:54, "Roger Kemp MD" <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com (viperdoc(at)mindspring.com)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Guys,
Ya’ll are completely missing point here. He pulled the prop backwards 10 times. You are not thinking of the Chinese gerbils. He has gotten those little buggars completely confused running around in the accessory case now. They do not know which way to run. They are screwed like a Chinese Fire Drill. They don't know whether to blow air in the compressor or suck air through the start valve. They are totally disoriented now. With 9 turns of the prop backwards they could have recovered from but oh no not ten! I have been told you are going to have to use the left leaning gerbil up the exhaust trick.
Never tried that though since my stacks all read exhaust only on the placard. Rich says it worked on his CJ but that is hearsay but hell, he’s had his tail off in Gasden for a couple of years now. Just have to take his word for it. MMO might fix it too. Get those Gerbils drunk on MMO and you never know what they’ll do from there! It’s like Vodka Friday in Russia when that happens!
Just my 2 cents,
Gives new meaning to CHECK 6 when CJ are in the pattern doesn’t it?
:^))
Doc
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 2:14 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Turning prop wrong direction
I'd like to add to Dennis's remarks. On the Chinese made air start valve (on CJs) there is no little lever, BUT there are 2 small rectangular slots. You can put a small flat screw blade in the slot and open the air valve that. This is the very same thing that little lever does on the Russian valves. Also - if you have an alternator and NOT a generator, if the battery is dead, yes you can start the engine, BUT you may not have enough juice in the battery to get the alternator to running. Thus the battery stays dead. Numerous other problems can result.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 5/15/2013 2:18:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net) writes:
| Quote: |
--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
Actually the air start valve has nothing to do with turning the prop
backwards.
Many of the air start valves on the firewall have a lever on the side
just for situations like this. It's for manually opening the valve when
electrically it won't open. Turn on the main air and simply flip the
lever on the air start valve and the valve will open.
Low battery voltage (less than 23 volts) will cause the air start
solenoid not to open sometimes. So first check your battery voltage.
Sometimes "popping" the start button rapidly will force the electrical
solenoid to activate and open the air start valve.
If your battery voltage is at 24 or above, if the air start valve still
will not open, then typically the air start valve is gunked up. This
causes it not to activate. You can try removing it from the firewall
and flushing it out, then drying it out thoroughly and reinstalling it.
If this doesn't work, call Doug and order a new one.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/15/2013 12:57 PM, altman51 wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "altman51" <waltman51(at)comcast.net (waltman51(at)comcast.net)>
I am a new CJ operator. Recently was starting my CJ and had head buried in the cockpit. A friend was proping for me and turned 6 times wrong direction.
Now the start valve will not open. Any suggestions - information on what happened, etc?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400696#400696
< ies ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site p;
|
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
8
[b]
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 2:16 pm Post subject: Turning prop wrong direction |
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As a P.S. note to what Dennis and Pappy said,
If you manage to get a new air start valve without the little lever,
simply take the old one apart, and put the guts of the new one back into
the old one, so you can keep the manual start lever. Isn't that hard to
do.
Mark
--
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altman51
Joined: 17 Sep 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: Turning prop wrong direction |
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Thanks guy, this is all helpful. Keep it coming, I am learning...
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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed May 15, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: Turning prop wrong direction |
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Actually pappy all QDF-1 start solenoid valves start their lives with the "little lever" on them. It's only when they get to the PLAAF units do the levers get removed. In over 20 years of importing new and overhauled QDF-1 valves I have never received one that did not have a lever on it. The fact that there are still some flying here in the US without levers attests to the longevity possible if one keeps his pneumatic system clean and dry.
Doug
On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 12:13 PM, <cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] I'd like to add to Dennis's remarks. On the Chinese made air start valve (on CJs) there is no little lever, BUT there are 2 small rectangular slots. You can put a small flat screw blade in the slot and open the air valve that. This is the very same thing that little lever does on the Russian valves. Also - if you have an alternator and NOT a generator, if the battery is dead, yes you can start the engine, BUT you may not have enough juice in the battery to get the alternator to running. Thus the battery stays dead. Numerous other problems can result.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 5/15/2013 2:18:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net) writes:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
Actually the air start valve has nothing to do with turning the prop
backwards.
Many of the air start valves on the firewall have a lever on the side
just for situations like this. It's for manually opening the valve when
electrically it won't open. Turn on the main air and simply flip the
lever on the air start valve and the valve will open.
Low battery voltage (less than 23 volts) will cause the air start
solenoid not to open sometimes. So first check your battery voltage.
Sometimes "popping" the start button rapidly will force the electrical
solenoid to activate and open the air start valve.
If your battery voltage is at 24 or above, if the air start valve still
will not open, then typically the air start valve is gunked up. This
causes it not to activate. You can try removing it from the firewall
and flushing it out, then drying it out thoroughly and reinstalling it.
If this doesn't work, call Doug and order a new one.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
[url=tel:334-285-6263]334-285-6263[/url]
[url=tel:334-546-8182]334-546-8182[/url] (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 5/15/2013 12:57 PM, altman51 wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "altman51" <waltman51(at)comcast.net (waltman51(at)comcast.net)>
I am a new CJ operator. Recently was starting my CJ and had head buried in the cockpit. A friend was proping for me and turned 6 times wrong direction.
Now the start valve will not open. Any suggestions - information on what happened, etc?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=400696#400696
>
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et="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
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