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stratobee
Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 159
Location: Los Angeles
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 Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 1:31 pm Post subject: How much power does the pressurisation use? |
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I was thinking about the Boeing 787 the other day that pressurises the cabin with electric pumps and how that could also work for the old pain-in-the-re** hydraulic pumps that cost a fortune to overhaul and never work properly. How much power is needed to pressurise the cabin of a 680FP/FPL/685/690/695?
Does anyone have an idea?
Wouldn't it be ideal to get rid of all that hydraulic nonsense, then upgrade the alternators only and have them drive an electric pressurisation pump.
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moe-rosspistons(at)hotmai
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:31 pm Post subject: How much power does the pressurisation use? |
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Hi Adam,
I have no idea as to just how much horsepower the pressurisation pumps use, however I can not tell the difference in either performance or fuel burn (at the same altitude of course) regardless of whether my 680F(p) is being pressurized or not. Having said that the POH prohibits use of pressurization on take off and landing. The motor for the pressurization is a Vickers P/N MF033BOO7B . Currently I am having one overhauled at Western Airparts and will ask them next week when I talk to them.
Given the small number of aircraft out there with this system that are not turbocharged (where bleed air can be used) it would not be finically feasable for anyone to get an STC. As far as I know all of these aircraft have generators (100 amp or smaller) that are gear driven, and that conversion alone would be a major undertaking.
Regards,
Moe
N680RR
680F(p)
PS rumor has it that you bought an star a few months back.
| Quote: | Subject: How much power does the pressurisation use?
From: adam(at)adamfrisch.com
Date: Fri, 31 May 2013 14:31:06 -0700
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
--> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com>
I was thinking about the Boeing 787 the other day that pressurises the cabin with electric pumps and how that could also work for the old pain-in-the-re** hydraulic pumps that cost a fortune to overhaul and never work properly. How much power is needed to pressurise the cabin of a 680FP/FPL/685/690/695?
Does anyone have an idea?
Wouldn't it be ideal to get rid of all that hydraulic nonsense, then upgrade the alternators only and have them drive an electric pressurisation pump.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401699#401699
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rpmcommander(at)GMAIL.COM
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 6:17 pm Post subject: How much power does the pressurisation use? |
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Adam, anytime you have a "FAA-certified" wheel turning that fast, (as in a pressurization pump) its going to cost alot.
I would venture that the B-787 electric cabin supercharger individually probably costs exponentially more than multiples (maybe even scores) of the old hydraulic pumps. I own the MRRPM Conversions with 4 turbo's per airplane, using bleed air pressurization thus getting rid of those problemsome Hyd pumps. That may be your best option.
I am sure it is possible for a turbo to be added to a IGSO to run the pressurization, I agree with Moe, Just not sure there is a market for such an expense.
I would recommend looking at the several MRRPM conversions available on the "For Sale" market hovering near $220k +$40k
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 5:31 PM, stratobee <adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam(at)adamfrisch.com (adam(at)adamfrisch.com)>
I was thinking about the Boeing 787 the other day that pressurises the cabin with electric pumps and how that could also work for the old pain-in-the-re** hydraulic pumps that cost a fortune to overhaul and never work properly. How much power is needed to pressurise the cabin of a 680FP/FPL/685/690/695?
Does anyone have an idea?
Wouldn't it be ideal to get rid of all that hydraulic nonsense, then upgrade the alternators only and have them drive an electric pressurisation pump.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=401699#401699
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Paul Gendron for
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andy(at)58November.com
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:19 pm Post subject: How much power does the pressurisation use? |
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It is rare for a pressurization conversion to work. I have seen guys going
broke over trying to upgrade King Air A90's in the past
Andy
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cloudcraft(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:55 pm Post subject: How much power does the pressurisation use? |
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For some reason the figure of 35hp sticks my mind when it comes to running the New York Airbrake positive displacement hydraulic pumps. Morris will know.
That being said, there is a reason the first generation of pressurized aircraft used cabin superchargers: there wasn't a better source of compressed air for the cabin.
That was well said about FAA approved parts that spin at high RMPs being expensive.
Don't think it's going to be practical beyond an experimental category to spin the cabin supercharger with anything other than 3000psi of hydraulic pressure, as intriguing as an electric motor sounds, but if you pursue it keep us informed.
Running a stock 680F-series with simpler hydraulic pumps (and switching to 5606 fluid) would solve some present day headaches.
Keith S. Gordon
on the fly
-------- Original message --------
From: andy downs <andy(at)58November.com>
Date:
To: commander-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Commander-List: How much power does the pressurisation use?
--> Commander-List message posted by: "andy downs" <andy(at)58november.com>
It is rare for a pressurization conversion to work. I have seen guys going
broke over trying to upgrade King Air A90's in the past
Andy
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