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RichGurr

Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Florida

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:31 am Post subject: Things needed for the build

I have my RV 10 fast build kit set for delivery in August.  My wife and I will

 be flying to Osh and camping in the North 40 for a week to take a few 

courses and shop for needed items.  I want to make a list of tools and things that I should get while there.  I will have the complete kit minus the FWF kit.  

I have a shop with all the basic mechanic tools, for working on cars and things.  Any  recommendations .  Thanks

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:17 am Post subject: Things needed for the build

All the good tool shops offer "RV Tool Kits". They publish a list of tools. I sort of remember Vans having a list of tools needed. Most of them will work with you for adding or deleting as you need. Their kits are substantial discount over buying separately.

 

Avery Tools http://www.averytools.com/



Cleaveland Tools http://www.cleavelandtoolstore.com/



Isham Tools http://www.planetools.com/

 



I'm probably forgetting others with kits.



Other sources, Brown Tools, The Yard, Aircraft Tool Supply, US Aircraft Tools.



You will need more clecos (3/32 and 1/8") than anyone offers in the kits, especially up to point where tail and fuselage are joined. You would find a complete 0-60 numbered drill set from Harbor Freight useful for the occasional times you need a size that is not in any of the kits.

 

After that you won't need that many.  I'm sure that some builders would be happy to unload some clecos. Some of us have a hard time getting rid of any tools, long after they are no longer needed.



All of the kits will have a generic 3/8" air drill, preferably with a keyless chuck. 

 

For the majority of drilling you don't need the size or weight of a 3/8" drill, and most of the generics don't have a light pull, easy to control trigger. I didn't upgrade until after developing trigger finger syndrome on my middle finger.

 http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=7300R is a relatively low cost, light wt Chicago Pneumatics drill. Excellent trigger. While I prefer a keyless chuck, it would add weight and cost, and the vast majority of your drilling will be either 3/32 or 1/8" (#30&#40).

 

Oh, also consider getting a few chucking reamers. Specifically #41 and #30.  #41 is closer to 3/32 than #40, and dimpling enlarges the hole anyway, so you get better rivet fit, and you can just ream all the prepunched holes without even using drill bit. A reamed hole needs less deburring, is rounder, etc.

 http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=15365



I'm sure others will offer more suggestions.



If you haven't found some of the excellent builder websites, start with Tim Olson's

 http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/index.html



He has links to others.



Kelly

40866



90% done, 90% to finish

 

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 6:31 AM, RichGurr <carriageco(at)sbcglobal.net (carriageco(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "RichGurr" <carriageco(at)sbcglobal.net (carriageco(at)sbcglobal.net)>

 

 I have my RV 10 fast build kit set for delivery in August.  My wife and I will

  be flying to Osh and camping in the North 40 for a week to take a few

 courses and shop for needed items.  I want to make a list of tools and things that I should get while there.  I will have the complete kit minus the finish kit.

 I have a shop with all the basic mechanic tools, for working on cars and things.  Any  recommendations .  Thanks

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403791#403791

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm

  

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:18 am Post subject: Re: Things needed for the build

Take a look at the Avery or Cleaveland RV toolkits on their websites and subtract out the things you already have.



Some of the extras I purchased over time:

tungsten bucking bar (best tool purchase I made)

pneumatic squeezer

additional 300 or so 3/32 (silver) clecos

extra #30 & #40 bits 

long #10 & #12 bits

long backrivet set

.2495 & .311 reamers

odd ball bits (#27, #28, #31)

tube flaring tool

tube bending tool

tank 3/32 dimple dies

safety wire pliers



I already had a Dremel, but I highly recommend one.  For a hand squeezer, I also recommend Cleaveland's "Main Squeeze" with at least a 3" yoke and a longeron yoke (they also fit on the pneumatic squeezer).

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Last edited by tsts4 on Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:22 am; edited 2 times in total

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:34 am Post subject: Things needed for the build

Would not build a van plane without pneumatic squeezer. I say it is impossible to build without it. 



Do not archive. 



Rob Kermanj

Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 2, 2013, at 6:31 AM, "RichGurr" <carriageco(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I have my RV 10 fast build kit set for delivery in August.  My wife and I will

 be flying to Osh and camping in the North 40 for a week to take a few 

 courses and shop for needed items.  I want to make a list of tools and things that I should get while there.  I will have the complete kit minus the finish kit.  

 I have a shop with all the basic mechanic tools, for working on cars and things.  Any  recommendations .  Thanks

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403791#403791

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:38 am Post subject: Things needed for the build

Yes, definitely a tungsten bucking bar. I use mine at least 90% of the time and all the rest occasionally.



Pneumatic and hand squeezer. 



DRDT=2 Dimpler is very useful and much faster than a hammer style C-Frame.

 He won't need tank dimple dies if getting quick build wings.



Long and offset backrivet set are handy, wouldn't consider essential.



I also use http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=635 round bucking bar for back riveting where it isn't easy to use back rivet plate.

 

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 7:18 AM, tsts4 <tsts4(at)verizon.net (tsts4(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: "tsts4" <tsts4(at)verizon.net (tsts4(at)verizon.net)>

 

 Take a look at the Avery or Cleaveland RV toolkits on their websites and subtract out the things you already have.

 

 Extras I purchased over time:

 tungsten bucking bar (best tool purchase I made)

 pneumatic squeezer

 additional 300 or so 3/32 (silver) clecos

 extra #30 & #40 bits

 long #10 & #12 bits

 long backrivet set

 .2495 & .311 reamers

 odd ball bits (#27, #28, #31)

 tube flaring tool

 tube bending tool

 tank 3/32 dimple dies

 safety wire pliers

 

 I already had a Dremel, but I highly recommend one.  For a hand squeezer, I also recommend Cleaveland's "Main Squeeze" with at least a 3" yoke and a longeron yoke.

 

 --------

 Todd Stovall

 aka Auburntsts on EAA, AOPA, Purple Pilots, VAF, and RVairspace

 RV-10 N728TT

 Empacone, Wings, Fuse, Finishing

 www.mykitlog.com/auburntsts

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403798#403798

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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-- 



 - sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm

  

  [quote][b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

taildragon(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:58 am Post subject: Things needed for the build

I have a DRDT=2 Dimpler for sale if anyone is interested.

Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2013 07:38:05 -0700

Subject: Re: Re: Things needed for the build

From: apilot2(at)gmail.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Yes, definitely a tungsten bucking bar. I use mine at least 90% of the time and all the rest occasionally.

Pneumatic and hand squeezer. 

DRDT=2 Dimpler is very useful and much faster than a hammer style C-Frame

RichGurr

Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Florida

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:05 am Post subject: Re: Things needed for the build

Thanks for the help.  I have compiled a list. As far as the drills, what RPMs are preferred for the build.  Is slower ie 2000 or higher ie 3600 a better choice. Do you see much difference between the Harbor Freight drills compared to the ones at Cleaveland, or other suppliers.  How many cleco, approximately, do I need for the job.

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:38 am Post subject: Things needed for the build

For aluminum the higher speed is better. For steel and stainless, slower 

is better. I now think 2 different drills are better than just one.

Harbor freight drill bits are good for occasional use. Aircraft drill 

bits from the good suppliers last much longer.

I lost count on clecos.



On 7/3/2013 6:05 AM, RichGurr wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks for the help.  I have compiled a list. As far as the drills, what RPMs are preferred for the build.  Is slower ie 2000 or higher ie 3600 a better choice. Do you see much difference between the Harbor Freight drills compared to the ones at Cleaveland, or other suppliers.  How many cleco do I need, approximately, do I need foe the job.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403856#403856






	


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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:46 am Post subject: Re: Things needed for the build

I agree with Kelly on what he says about drill speeds. However, 99% of the drilling on the kit is enlarging existing holes not making new ones in raw material (although there are times when you do that).  So, IMO drill speed really didnâ€™t make a difference.  I did my tailcone and wings with a pneumatic, but most of the fuse was done with a combination of corded and cordless electric drills. Where the pneumatics shine is in size and weight as their compact size lets you get into tighter places and the lighter weight is less fatiguing.   Canâ€™t speak to Harbor Freight vs. any of the major suppliers for drills, but I tend to steer clear of Harbor Freight for anything other than items I consider to be expendable/throw-away stuff.  IOW I tend to spend more in order to get quality tools   As for Clecos, most the kits come with around 375â€”Iâ€™d go up  to at least 500.  However, truth in lending, Iâ€™m anal about clecoing things together.  I tend to cleco a lot of holes when I drill or rivet as I want things nice and tight.  Probably overkill but it gave me piece of mind.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:39 am Post subject: Things needed for the build

If you have a chance, try to use some of these tools before selecting 

and buying.  Oshkosh may give you an opportunity to do that.



I started my build with a no longer offered 5 day "build the tail kit" 

class where I had the chance  to try a variety of tools - e.g. 4 

different manual rivet squeezers, power squeezers, countersinks, etc.  I 

had no idea there was so much variation even between quality tools.  I 

came away with a distinct preference for a brand of manual squeezers 

(and a classmate had a distinctly different preference). I'm not sure 

that pneumatic cleco guns are all that popular.... I used one that 

convinced me I didn't want one, I used a second and it became a good friend.



There are not a lot of opportunities to try before you buy and my guess 

is that most of us don't get the chance.  No worries since whatever you 

end up with is likely to become 'the best tool for the job' no matter what.



As others have said, definitely get a power squeezer, a DRT2 (sic), and 

at least one good pneumatic drill with a hand twist chuck. Whether you 

use an electric drill or not, get a lightweight electric driver.  

General purpose tools include a good drill press, floor standing if you 

can, and a good band saw.   You also need a bench grinder with 1 or 2 

Scotchbrite wheels on it for deburring.  This should be mounted on a 

pedestal rather than a bench for easy handling of the aluminum.  A good 

heavy vice is more than handy throughout the build.



I bought a lot of HF stuff and still do but good is not equal to HF.  

Single use and disposable = HF but that can definitely have a place in 

your project (see fiberglass work).



Bill "missing the build just a little but I'm done" Watson

RichGurr

Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Florida

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Things needed for the build

I agree about the Harbor Freight tools, usual I buy for a one time project.  I can shop prices before Osh now to check for the best deals.

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Things needed for the build

No one mentioned the obvious - you need an air compressor. 'Oil free' are useful if you are going to use it for painting, but they're also much louder than oil lubricated ones. Look at the cubic ft per minute numbers. Some of the smaller ones cannot keep up if you're doing a lot of drilling, and definitely can't keep up with spray painting.



Shop supplies: boelube or cutting oil for drilling hard metals, lube oil for air tools, thread sealant for pipe threads, scotch brite pads, felt tip pens, etc.



Center punch for starting the process of removing rivets, 1/8 and 3/32 pin punches for the same reason!



I found a scotch bright grinding wheel much more useful than I ever thought.



Also, stuff gets lost. Almost everyone ends up buying an assortment of rivets, bolts, nuts, etc. And get some "opps" rivets from Vans.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: Things needed for the build

The "oops" rivet selection from Avery worked better for me, because I 

used the NAS1097-3 size to install nutplates by countersinking for that 

tiny head instead of dimpling. Makes a much nicer install. The liquid 

Boelube is excellent for drilling stainless steel, like firewall. It 

also is great for first time install of screw/bolt into a new nutplate. 

Oil lube compressor IMHO is far better than oiless, because you do so 

much work needing compressed air, and unless compressor is in another 

room/noise cabinet the oiless noise will drive you crazy. I got 30 gal 

Husky. I think Lowes may have a bit nicer 30 gal now.  Some of the kits 

come with Scotchbrite wheel. Builder's hardware kit for those extra 

bolts and screws you always need will save time.



On 7/3/2013 1:43 PM, Bob Turner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 No one mentioned the obvious - you need an air compressor. 'Oil free' are useful if you are going to use it for painting, but they're also much louder than oil lubricated ones. Look at the cubic ft per minute numbers. Some of the smaller ones cannot keep up if you're doing a lot of drilling, and definitely can't keep up with spray painting.



 Shop supplies: boelube or cutting oil for drilling hard metals, lube oil for air tools, thread sealant for pipe threads, scotch brite pads, felt tip pens, etc.



 Center punch for starting the process of removing rivets, 1/8 and 3/32 pin punches for the same reason!



 I found a scotch bright grinding wheel much more useful than I ever thought.



 Also, stuff gets lost. Almost everyone ends up buying an assortment of rivets, bolts, nuts, etc. And get some "opps" rivets from Vans.



 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403887#403887






	


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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:47 pm Post subject: Things needed for the build

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 No one mentioned the obvious - you need an air compressor. 'Oil free' are useful if you are going to use it for painting, but they're also much louder than oil lubricated ones. Look at the cubic ft per minute numbers. Some of the smaller ones cannot keep up if you're doing a lot of drilling, and definitely can't keep up with spray painting.

Yes, I got a pretty large one from Home Depot/Lowes.  My sense is that 
	


oil free is for casual use - building the '10 is not casual - but I 

don't really know.  The one thing I was absolutely not going to do was 

paint... but I ended up painting.  Instead of creating a clean, dry air 

supply, I went with a turbine HVLP system.  But I digress, that's all 

waaaay down the line so don't get hung up on finishing at the start, 

just get what you need for a lot of aluminum work.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Center punch for starting the process of removing rivets, 1/8 and 3/32 pin punches for the same reason!

I never used a center punch for rivet removal!  I should have.  I just 
	


relied on the little hole on the top of each rivet to guide the drill.  

It worked, usually.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I found a scotch bright grinding wheel much more useful than I ever thought.

Had never heard of them before but at class, I learned to deburr every 
	


single piece of aluminum as the first step in any assembly. Do the plans 

tell you to do that?  Don't know, but relative to all the anal 

activities you can get involved with, deburring seems to be a  big one 

to me.... priming, not so much (helmet on).

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Also, stuff gets lost. Almost everyone ends up buying an assortment of rivets, bolts, nuts, etc. And get some "opps" rivets from Vans.



Speaking of anal... if you really get into using the right rivet to get 
	


the right sized head in every instance, you quickly discover that Vans 

supplies a limited range of sizes but doesn't include half sizes or 

enough of certain sizes.  My build-the-tail class instructor loved 

watching us struggle with a particular rivet, then pulling out a bottle 

of half size rivets to try.  He knew every single mismatch.  But of 

course, Vans knows what really matters. None of those half size rivets 

were really needed because every single rivet didn't need to be perfect.



Bill "Sorry for getting lost in the weeds here"  Watson

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Things needed for the build

I would suggest biting the bullet and getting a complete RV-10 build kit from one of the tool suppliers (I used Avery). They will include stuff that your not familiar with, but will be invaluable at the right time.



The best thing I got was the Sioux air drill with an optional keyless chuck. The suggestions on extra clecos and drill bits are good. Don't try to save a few bucks on cheap bits - get plenty.

I need to rephrase this - the best thing was the pneumatic squeezer.



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:59 am Post subject: Things needed for the build

Must haves (in my book):

- start with a RV tool kit

- spend the money on the Sioux drill, worth every penny!

- buy a keyless quick change chuck for the drill, you'll save tons of time in bit changes.

- buy a second countersink drill cage, leave one set up for #40 and one for #30.

- pneumatic riveter with deep throat and longeron yokes

- tungsten bucking bar

- the DRDT is very nice too.  Not a must have in my book unless you are building at home, then it is a must have as it makes no sound....

- you can never have too many clecos

- also buy 10-20 of the larger clecos (black, gold)



-Mike

Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 4, 2013, at 9:13 AM, "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I would suggest biting the bullet and getting a complete RV-10 build kit from one of the tool suppliers (I used Avery). They will include stuff that your not familiar with, but will be invaluable at the right time.

 

 The best thing I got was the Sioux air drill with an optional keyless chuck. The suggestions on extra clecos and drill bits are good. Don't try to save a few bucks on cheap bits - get plenty.

 I need to rephrase this - the best thing was the pneumatic squeezer.

 

 John

 

 --------

 #40572 Phase One complete and flying.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403915#403915

karolamy(at)roadrunner.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:44 am Post subject: Things needed for the build

Never saw this mentioned, so in case it wasn't:  One of my MOST used tools was and is a Die Grinder.  Mine I believe is a CP and I've used it so much that it should have died long ago, but still survives as if it were new.  Shaping, fitting, cutting, elongating holes, etc.  If you put it to work for you it may become your best friend quickly!  I also agree with others about the pneumatic squeezers - also a best friend.  Find one that fits your liking and learn how to use it.  It can give you quick, professional, repeatable and consistent rivet sets.  This is my second plane and I don't even own a hand squeezer!  Certainly there were a few areas where I could have used it, but your choice.  Hope that helps…….   Oh, and yes both of these require a compressor - my choice is one with a separate electric motor and separate compressor motor - for the most part they seem much more quiet.  I've painted lots of things with mine and had no bleed in problems with oil or moisture  using a filter/dryer in-line,  before the gun.  



Rich Hansen



RV-6A  Sold

RV-10 forever finishing

RichGurr

Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Florida

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Things needed for the build

I will check out the RV tool kits while at Osh.  As pointed out, I can delete any tools I may have.  Based on everyones input,  a Pneumatic  Squeezer is on the must have list.  Have a safe Independence Day!

rv10flyer

Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:40 am Post subject: Re: Things needed for the build

Stop at KPMH on your way home. I have a DRDT-2, books, trays, oops rivets and many other items left over.

_________________
Wayne G.

RichGurr

Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Things needed for the build

I have read about various colors for clecos.  What color equals the size.  Are silver 40, copper 30 etc.  also, if anyone wants to get rid of some tools collecting dust, I am interested in things I will need for the build.  PM me if you want to depart with something.

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