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New Owner Question

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flyingchemist

Joined: 19 Jul 2013
Posts: 3

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject: New Owner Question

I recently purchased N166JG, a 2007 Lightning built by the previous owner at the factory.  On take-off I have to give it full right rudder as well as some right brake to keep it going approximately straight down the runway.  I would be hesitant to try a take-off from a runway less than about 70 ft wide.  Is this normal?  If not, is there a fix? 



I measured the rudder travel at the top of the rudder.  It is 2 inches left or right from centered.  It seems like it should be more.



Thanks for any advice than can be provided.



Dave(at)SRC





 [quote][b]

_________________
Dave@SRC

dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: New Owner Question

David,

   

  I built my Lightning in 2011.  It has always taken full right rudder on takeoff.  Maybe some brake too.  I just keep it straight.  I hope you got some good transition training.  It surely does not fly like any of the spam cans out there.  Lots of fun.

   

  

    Regards,

   

  Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant

  Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert

  Program and Project Management

  757-784-8113

  N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

  

  

  --

_________________
Dennis

vettin74(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:13 pm Post subject: New Owner Question

Rudder travel should be about 8" left or right measured at the widest part of the rudder. It is typical to run out of rudder on takeoff if you advance the throttle too quickly on take off and dont follow with rudder. Many line up on center line and just push in full trottle than release the brake, the technique is incorrect. Try setting up everything for takeoff at the hold short line. Use a rolling entry to the runway keep the aircraft rolling on centerline and smoothly advance to full throttle while applying rigt rudder. You may use near full rudder at the start of the roll but by 25-30mph the rudder will start to be more powerfull and the rudder released. 

Nick



Sent from my pocket 

On Jul 20, 2013, at 7:00 PM, David Cole <dbcole(at)sbcglobal.net (dbcole(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:

[quote]I recently purchased N166JG, a 2007 Lightning built by the previous owner at the factory.  On take-off I have to give it full right rudder as well as some right brake to keep it going approximately straight down the runway.  I would be hesitant to try a take-off from a runway less than about 70 ft wide.  Is this normal?  If not, is there a fix? 



I measured the rudder travel at the top of the rudder.  It is 2 inches left or right from centered.  It seems like it should be more.



Thanks for any advice than can be provided.



Dave(at)SRC





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[b]

BobHaas

Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 17

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: New Owner Question

Greetings Dave.  There is a  great deal of P factor with the Lightning, how ever My rudder deflects 3 +  inches neat the top of the rudder.  You should not

 need any brake to keep it straight once it starts to roll.  Check the  manual for travel limits.  Bob Haas N330BH. 

    

  From: David Cole (dbcole(at)sbcglobal.net) 

 Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 8:00 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)  

 Subject: New Owner Question

  



  I  recently purchased N166JG, a 2007 Lightning built by the previous owner at the  factory.  On take-off I have to give it full right rudder as well as some  right brake to keep it going approximately straight down the runway.  I  would be hesitant to try a take-off from a runway less than about 70 ft  wide.  Is this normal?  If not, is there a fix? 



I measured the  rudder travel at the top of the rudder.  It is 2 inches left or right from  centered.  It seems like it should be more.



Thanks for any advice  than can be provided.



Dave(at)SRC



  



[quote]



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href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

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[b]

flyingchemist

Joined: 19 Jul 2013
Posts: 3

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: Re: New Owner Question

Full rudder travel at the bottom of the rudder where it is the widest is 5 inches left or right - a good bit less than the 8 inches it should be.  I am not a builder nor a mechanic.  Is there an adjustment that will allow a little more rudder travel?  



Coming back from a fly-in the wind was 7-8 mph 80 degrees from the right.  It took full left rudder to keep it aligned with the runway.  It could not have handled another 2 miles an hour.  



Dave(at)SRC

_________________
Dave@SRC

barnett6088(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: New Owner Question

Dave

I generally follow what Nick said about applying power gradually during the start of the takeoff run.  I line it up while slowly rolling down the center line then smoothly slide in the power over 2 or 3 seconds as I gradually bring in full rudder.  At about 10 knots you have enough airspeed to make the rudder fully effective.  

 

As for staying on the centerline during takeoff a lot of the problem is in the forward cant of the pivot shaft for the nose wheel. As the wheel moves one direction or the other it creates a positive feedback.  In other words the turning force increases the further it turns.  The reverse of a bicycle front wheel.   When you put in rudder to stop the turn and bring it back to the centerline you will find you must decrease the rudder input in advance the straight ahead position or you overshoot to the other side.  Most of us are not that fast so you inevitably weave down the runway a foot or two on either side of the centerline during takeoff.  I noticed in the last newsletter Arion has come out with a vertical pivot shaft for the nose wheel weldment similar the Lancair's and RV's.  I will eventually change my nose wheel mount to that type.  It will make takeoffs a lot smoother.  

 

Good luck with your new Lightning.  Gary Barnett N335AL SN133

 

Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 17:00:06 -0700

From: dbcole(at)sbcglobal.net

Subject: New Owner Question

To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com



I recently purchased N166JG, a 2007 Lightning built by the previous owner at the factory.  On take-off I have to give it full right rudder as well as some right brake to keep it going approximately straight down the runway.  I would be hesitant to try a take-off from a runway less than about 70 ft wide.  Is this normal?  If not, is there a fix? 



I measured the rudder travel at the top of the rudder.  It is 2 inches left or right from centered.  It seems like it should be more.



Thanks for any advice than can be provided.



Dave(at)SRC





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st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List

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http://forums.matronics.com

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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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[b]

dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:09 pm Post subject: New Owner Question

If you are having the rudder hitting the edge of the vertical stabilizer, then there is an issue.

   

  1. Look at the bottom bracket that connects the rudder to the vertical stabilizer.  

  2. There should be two stop bolts in the bracket. If they are not there, they should be installed, look at the installation instructions on the flylightning.net web site.

  3.  If they are there and the rudder is hitting the edge of the vertical stabilizer before the stop bolts hit their stops, then material needs to be sanded off the vertical stabilizer so you get full rudder travel.

   

  Again, look at the installation instructions that can be found here:

   

  http://www.flylightning.net/Owners.htm

   

  I hope this helps.

   

  

    Regards,

   

  Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant

  Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert

  Program and Project Management

  757-784-8113

  N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

  

  

  --

_________________
Dennis

dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: New Owner Question

I directed you to the build manual and after looking at it, I can't find the instructions I just gave you in the build manual.  I built my plane at Green Landings Flight Center and I remember doing these steps when I did the rudder install.  Maybe Mark or Nick can find the correct instructions, I did not find them.  The two stop bolts should be installed in the bracket and the rudder should not hit the vertical stabilizer at full travel.

   

  

    Regards,

   

  Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant

  Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert

  Program and Project Management

  757-784-8113

  N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

  

  

  --

_________________
Dennis

vettin74(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:19 pm Post subject: New Owner Question

166JG would not have the stops, it is to early of an airframe. The rudder may rub along the vertical tail skins but the skins shouldnt keep it from moving far enough, would mostly just rub the finish. It may be hard to explain on an email so i will send a picture in the morning of where you may have to check for clearance and what to adjust.

Nick



Sent from my pocket 

On Jul 21, 2013, at 4:17 PM, "Dennis W. Wilt" <dwwilt(at)AOL.COM (dwwilt(at)AOL.COM)> wrote:

[quote] I directed you to the build manual and after looking at it, I can't find the instructions I just gave you in the build manual.  I built my plane at Green Landings Flight Center and I remember doing these steps when I did the rudder install.  Maybe Mark or Nick can find the correct instructions, I did not find them.  The two stop bolts should be installed in the bracket and the rudder should not hit the vertical stabilizer at full travel.

   

  

    Regards,

   

  Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant

  Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert

  Program and Project Management

  757-784-8113

  N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

  

  

  --

dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject: New Owner Question

Thanks Nick.



Blue Skies,



Dennis W. Wilt

N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 21, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Nick Otterback <vettin74(at)yahoo.com (vettin74(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:



[quote]166JG would not have the stops, it is to early of an airframe. The rudder may rub along the vertical tail skins but the skins shouldnt keep it from moving far enough, would mostly just rub the finish. It may be hard to explain on an email so i will send a picture in the morning of where you may have to check for clearance and what to adjust.

Nick



Sent from my pocket 

On Jul 21, 2013, at 4:17 PM, "Dennis W. Wilt" <dwwilt(at)AOL.COM (dwwilt(at)AOL.COM)> wrote:

[quote] I directed you to the build manual and after looking at it, I can't find the instructions I just gave you in the build manual.  I built my plane at Green Landings Flight Center and I remember doing these steps when I did the rudder install.  Maybe Mark or Nick can find the correct instructions, I did not find them.  The two stop bolts should be installed in the bracket and the rudder should not hit the vertical stabilizer at full travel.

   

  

    Regards,

   

  Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant

  Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert

  Program and Project Management

  757-784-8113

  N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

  

  

  --

_________________
Dennis

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