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flyingchemist
Joined: 19 Jul 2013 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:02 pm Post subject: New Owner Question |
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I recently purchased N166JG, a 2007 Lightning built by the previous owner at the factory. On take-off I have to give it full right rudder as well as some right brake to keep it going approximately straight down the runway. I would be hesitant to try a take-off from a runway less than about 70 ft wide. Is this normal? If not, is there a fix?
I measured the rudder travel at the top of the rudder. It is 2 inches left or right from centered. It seems like it should be more.
Thanks for any advice than can be provided.
Dave(at)SRC
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dwwilt
Joined: 06 Dec 2010 Posts: 192
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:21 pm Post subject: New Owner Question |
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David,
I built my Lightning in 2011. It has always taken full right rudder on takeoff. Maybe some brake too. I just keep it straight. I hope you got some good transition training. It surely does not fly like any of the spam cans out there. Lots of fun.
Regards,
Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant
Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert
Program and Project Management
757-784-8113
N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)
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vettin74(at)yahoo.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:13 pm Post subject: New Owner Question |
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Rudder travel should be about 8" left or right measured at the widest part of the rudder. It is typical to run out of rudder on takeoff if you advance the throttle too quickly on take off and dont follow with rudder. Many line up on center line and just push in full trottle than release the brake, the technique is incorrect. Try setting up everything for takeoff at the hold short line. Use a rolling entry to the runway keep the aircraft rolling on centerline and smoothly advance to full throttle while applying rigt rudder. You may use near full rudder at the start of the roll but by 25-30mph the rudder will start to be more powerfull and the rudder released.
Nick
Sent from my pocket
On Jul 20, 2013, at 7:00 PM, David Cole <dbcole(at)sbcglobal.net (dbcole(at)sbcglobal.net)> wrote:
[quote]I recently purchased N166JG, a 2007 Lightning built by the previous owner at the factory. On take-off I have to give it full right rudder as well as some right brake to keep it going approximately straight down the runway. I would be hesitant to try a take-off from a runway less than about 70 ft wide. Is this normal? If not, is there a fix?
I measured the rudder travel at the top of the rudder. It is 2 inches left or right from centered. It seems like it should be more.
Thanks for any advice than can be provided.
Dave(at)SRC
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BobHaas
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 17
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: New Owner Question |
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Greetings Dave. There is a great deal of P factor with the Lightning, how ever My rudder deflects 3 + inches neat the top of the rudder. You should not
need any brake to keep it straight once it starts to roll. Check the manual for travel limits. Bob Haas N330BH.
From: David Cole (dbcole(at)sbcglobal.net)
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 8:00 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com (lightning-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: New Owner Question
I recently purchased N166JG, a 2007 Lightning built by the previous owner at the factory. On take-off I have to give it full right rudder as well as some right brake to keep it going approximately straight down the runway. I would be hesitant to try a take-off from a runway less than about 70 ft wide. Is this normal? If not, is there a fix?
I measured the rudder travel at the top of the rudder. It is 2 inches left or right from centered. It seems like it should be more.
Thanks for any advice than can be provided.
Dave(at)SRC
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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flyingchemist
Joined: 19 Jul 2013 Posts: 3
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:10 am Post subject: Re: New Owner Question |
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Full rudder travel at the bottom of the rudder where it is the widest is 5 inches left or right - a good bit less than the 8 inches it should be. I am not a builder nor a mechanic. Is there an adjustment that will allow a little more rudder travel?
Coming back from a fly-in the wind was 7-8 mph 80 degrees from the right. It took full left rudder to keep it aligned with the runway. It could not have handled another 2 miles an hour.
Dave(at)SRC
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barnett6088(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:09 pm Post subject: New Owner Question |
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Dave
I generally follow what Nick said about applying power gradually during the start of the takeoff run. I line it up while slowly rolling down the center line then smoothly slide in the power over 2 or 3 seconds as I gradually bring in full rudder. At about 10 knots you have enough airspeed to make the rudder fully effective.
As for staying on the centerline during takeoff a lot of the problem is in the forward cant of the pivot shaft for the nose wheel. As the wheel moves one direction or the other it creates a positive feedback. In other words the turning force increases the further it turns. The reverse of a bicycle front wheel. When you put in rudder to stop the turn and bring it back to the centerline you will find you must decrease the rudder input in advance the straight ahead position or you overshoot to the other side. Most of us are not that fast so you inevitably weave down the runway a foot or two on either side of the centerline during takeoff. I noticed in the last newsletter Arion has come out with a vertical pivot shaft for the nose wheel weldment similar the Lancair's and RV's. I will eventually change my nose wheel mount to that type. It will make takeoffs a lot smoother.
Good luck with your new Lightning. Gary Barnett N335AL SN133
Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2013 17:00:06 -0700
From: dbcole(at)sbcglobal.net
Subject: New Owner Question
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
I recently purchased N166JG, a 2007 Lightning built by the previous owner at the factory. On take-off I have to give it full right rudder as well as some right brake to keep it going approximately straight down the runway. I would be hesitant to try a take-off from a runway less than about 70 ft wide. Is this normal? If not, is there a fix?
I measured the rudder travel at the top of the rudder. It is 2 inches left or right from centered. It seems like it should be more.
Thanks for any advice than can be provided.
Dave(at)SRC
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dwwilt
Joined: 06 Dec 2010 Posts: 192
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:09 pm Post subject: New Owner Question |
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If you are having the rudder hitting the edge of the vertical stabilizer, then there is an issue.
1. Look at the bottom bracket that connects the rudder to the vertical stabilizer.
2. There should be two stop bolts in the bracket. If they are not there, they should be installed, look at the installation instructions on the flylightning.net web site.
3. If they are there and the rudder is hitting the edge of the vertical stabilizer before the stop bolts hit their stops, then material needs to be sanded off the vertical stabilizer so you get full rudder travel.
Again, look at the installation instructions that can be found here:
http://www.flylightning.net/Owners.htm
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant
Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert
Program and Project Management
757-784-8113
N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)
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dwwilt
Joined: 06 Dec 2010 Posts: 192
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:17 pm Post subject: New Owner Question |
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I directed you to the build manual and after looking at it, I can't find the instructions I just gave you in the build manual. I built my plane at Green Landings Flight Center and I remember doing these steps when I did the rudder install. Maybe Mark or Nick can find the correct instructions, I did not find them. The two stop bolts should be installed in the bracket and the rudder should not hit the vertical stabilizer at full travel.
Regards,
Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant
Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert
Program and Project Management
757-784-8113
N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)
--
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vettin74(at)yahoo.com Guest
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:19 pm Post subject: New Owner Question |
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166JG would not have the stops, it is to early of an airframe. The rudder may rub along the vertical tail skins but the skins shouldnt keep it from moving far enough, would mostly just rub the finish. It may be hard to explain on an email so i will send a picture in the morning of where you may have to check for clearance and what to adjust.
Nick
Sent from my pocket
On Jul 21, 2013, at 4:17 PM, "Dennis W. Wilt" <dwwilt(at)AOL.COM (dwwilt(at)AOL.COM)> wrote:
[quote] I directed you to the build manual and after looking at it, I can't find the instructions I just gave you in the build manual. I built my plane at Green Landings Flight Center and I remember doing these steps when I did the rudder install. Maybe Mark or Nick can find the correct instructions, I did not find them. The two stop bolts should be installed in the bracket and the rudder should not hit the vertical stabilizer at full travel.
Regards,
Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant
Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert
Program and Project Management
757-784-8113
N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)
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dwwilt
Joined: 06 Dec 2010 Posts: 192
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:45 pm Post subject: New Owner Question |
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Thanks Nick.
Blue Skies,
Dennis W. Wilt
N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)
Sent from my iPad
On Jul 21, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Nick Otterback <vettin74(at)yahoo.com (vettin74(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]166JG would not have the stops, it is to early of an airframe. The rudder may rub along the vertical tail skins but the skins shouldnt keep it from moving far enough, would mostly just rub the finish. It may be hard to explain on an email so i will send a picture in the morning of where you may have to check for clearance and what to adjust.
Nick
Sent from my pocket
On Jul 21, 2013, at 4:17 PM, "Dennis W. Wilt" <dwwilt(at)AOL.COM (dwwilt(at)AOL.COM)> wrote:
[quote] I directed you to the build manual and after looking at it, I can't find the instructions I just gave you in the build manual. I built my plane at Green Landings Flight Center and I remember doing these steps when I did the rudder install. Maybe Mark or Nick can find the correct instructions, I did not find them. The two stop bolts should be installed in the bracket and the rudder should not hit the vertical stabilizer at full travel.
Regards,
Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant
Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert
Program and Project Management
757-784-8113
N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)
--
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