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woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:22 am Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

I'm at the stage of wiring my stick grips and wondering what sage advice there is on running the wires inside the stick or outside.  I'm leaning inside, but love to hear some feedback.



Thanks in advance.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:37 am Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

Inside man!  Duh! 



do not archive.

On Jul 20, 2013, at 3:22 PM, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I'm at the stage of wiring my stick grips and wondering what sage advice there is on running the wires inside the stick or outside.  I'm leaning inside, but love to hear some feedback.

 

 Thanks in advance.

 

 --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear.  FWF complete.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404980#404980

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:45 pm Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

I ran mine on the inside .... full blown infinity stick grips.  I had to 

'relieve' the sharp bend at the bottom of the straight portion and the 

wire exits through a 1/4" hole at the rear of the mount.

Linn



On 7/20/2013 3:22 PM, woxofswa wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'm at the stage of wiring my stick grips and wondering what sage advice there is on running the wires inside the stick or outside.  I'm leaning inside, but love to hear some feedback.



 Thanks in advance.



 --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear.  FWF complete.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404980#404980





 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:09 pm Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

Absolutely inside.



Marcus

do not archive



On Jul 20, 2013, at 3:22 PM, "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com> wrote:






I'm at the stage of wiring my stick grips and wondering what sage advice there is on running the wires inside the stick or outside.  I'm leaning inside, but love to hear some feedback.



Thanks in advance.



--------

Myron Nelson

Mesa, AZ

Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear.  FWF complete.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=404980#404980

rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

I have the infinity grips. I drilled and put the wires on the inside, 

however I also had an issue and needed to replace one of the switches on the 

grip. It would have been a lot easier to have the wires on the outside. 

Also, if you plan to put a boot over the stick, outside is fine.

Only reason to think outside is time, it is really easy to run the wires up 

the stick and zip tie, but if you do, make sure you cover them with a full 

stick boot.

Pascal

--

bill.peyton

Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 198
Location: St. Louis, MO

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll

I ran mine inside also.  There is no reason not to, and it looks better.  You will have to drill a hole at the top of the stick where the vertical attaches to the main part of the stick.  You don't need a large hole.  I covered the wires with anti chafe skin and left enough slack at the bottom where it exits, to pull the grip up off the stick very easily if they need servicing.  The downside is removing the stick requires disconnecting the wires.  To aid in making this a bit easier, I used a barrier block with screw terminals.  If you put a connector on the end of the wires, you will not be able to pull them all the way back out.

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_________________
Bill
WA0SYV
Aviation Partners, LLC

toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:47 pm Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

Here is a solution for running inside the stick. We welded a doubler on the

stick receiver since we slotted it. This allows complete removal of the

stick with the wiring/CPC connector. Infinity grips used. 

-Chris Lucas

N919AR

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robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:58 pm Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

Inside. In fact even if I had a stick boot (which I never will) I would run them inside. With the Infinity wire bundle there are a LOT of wires. I think we ended up using a common ground so we were able to remove more than a third of the wires leaving extras in case I wanted to expand in the future. This made it a lot easier to fish through the stick. On the tail end we used a D Shell style connector in the rare event we would have to remove the stick. We did the same set up on all the 2 place RV's as we often removed the Co-pilots stick for various reasons. 

One note on grip buttons. If I were to do it over again with all the modern tech and push button items in our cockpit I would now dedicate one button to an OK or Accept button. We get the most random notifications on these glass displays that simply request acknowledgement. It would be nice the flick a pinky to confirm the notification.

One note on the grips themselves. I see so many installs that have the grip facing straight forward. I strongly suggest you sit in your seat properly located forward & aft to see what angle your stick hand lands on the stick. Put the grip in our hand un-mounted or over the stick to see what feels best. Close your eyes and drop your hand into position. Do it several times. You will notice the ideal orientation has significant rotation from directly forward. Mine was about a 40 Degree rotation. No way would straight forward be comfortable for long hand flying. Even worse on takeoff when you often have to flick the trim several times, flip the Flaps Up toggle and push the flip/flop not having the correct & natural orientation on the grip makes for something less than ideal button orientation as well as a less natural placement in your hand. Just something to consider.  



Robin



--

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll

My plane is definitely function first, beauty last. I ran the wires, in a protective covering, on the outside.

Adding to Robin's comment, one nice feature of the Tosten grip is that the hold down screw rides in a groove. With it snug but not tight the grip rotates naturally with your hand, as you move the stick.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll

Thanks for the replies.



I went for the inside option tied to a bus terminal mounted on the gear tree.  I ran enough slack to just clip off ring terminals and re-crimp several times if I ever have to remove.



My stick grips are unique.  To have a little flavor of the day job, I used a battle worn salvage Boeing 737 yoke.  I cut off the uprights to make them my stick grips.  My trim, A/P disco, and PTT will all be original Boeing on the left grip.  I'm still looking for another trim switch module to install in the right.  To attach the grips to the sticks I hillbilly engineered an interface from a stack of the scrap spar spacers.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:07 am Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

While usually Robin and I are on the same page, here I differ a bit.

I think too much is made of the rotating of the grip. Yeah, you will want it

rotated slightly, but I don't think any major rotation is warranted.

I would probably be more likely to recommend AGAINST going

very far in rotation and here's why...



When flying the RV-10, even during landing, I rarely use more than

2 or 3 fingertips on the stick....LITERALLY.  You just give it gentle

nudges with 1 or 2 fingers and it does what you want.  Honestly

I never ever have the need to grab the grip with a full hand on most

flights.  You could throw an mis-shapen blob of rocks on the end of

the stick and I could fly with it, because gripping it is just not

something you would do for hours on end. Your forearm rests

on your legs and it's very comfortable to fly.  I could fly with it

cockeyed by 40 degrees, 90 degrees, or 180 degrees.



But, when the rubber meets the road, and you DO need to grip it

hard, that's likely going to be during a time of trouble....some time when

you're going to actually exert yourself to push or pull or yank and bank

like during some event or bad turbulence.  At that point I would

recommend that the yoke be rotated in the direction that gives you

the most arm "solid" control ability.  Sit at your desk right now,

and try to push yourself back from your desk with your fist, and

see what position your arm wants to be in.  Mine certainly doesn't

have full strength at 40 degrees offset.  In fact, it's probably

not many degrees off straight...maybe 5-10 at most.



So my position on it is basically....rotate the grip so that if you needed

to do a hard push to override an autopilot or break a stall or

perform a hard maneuver, you could do it with a locked wrist and

be comfortable.  And, beyond that, don't worry about it much because

if you're giving the stick your full grip during normal maneuvers

you're probably trying too hard...it's a plane that can be flown

with fingertips and trim alone.



As Dave Mason sung years ago..... "We just disagree", Robin. 

No worries though....this one falls into that "do whatever you wish"

category as far as I'm concerned.  I'm just providing the counterpoint.



Tim

On 7/21/2013 4:58 PM, Robin Marks wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Inside. In fact even if I had a stick boot (which I never will) I would run them inside. With the Infinity wire bundle there are a LOT of wires. I think we ended up using a common ground so we were able to remove more than a third of the wires leaving extras in case I wanted to expand in the future. This made it a lot easier to fish through the stick. On the tail end we used a D Shell style connector in the rare event we would have to remove the stick. We did the same set up on all the 2 place RV's as we often removed the Co-pilots stick for various reasons.

 One note on grip buttons. If I were to do it over again with all the modern tech and push button items in our cockpit I would now dedicate one button to an OK or Accept button. We get the most random notifications on these glass displays that simply request acknowledgement. It would be nice the flick a pinky to confirm the notification.

 One note on the grips themselves. I see so many installs that have the grip facing straight forward. I strongly suggest you sit in your seat properly located forward & aft to see what angle your stick hand lands on the stick. Put the grip in our hand un-mounted or over the stick to see what feels best. Close your eyes and drop your hand into position. Do it several times. You will notice the ideal orientation has significant rotation from directly forward. Mine was about a 40 Degree rotation. No way would straight forward be comfortable for long hand flying. Even worse on takeoff when you often have to flick the trim several times, flip the Flaps Up toggle and push the flip/flop not having the correct & natural orientation on the grip makes for something less than ideal button orientation as well as a less natural placement in your hand. Just something to consider.



 Robin

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll

Infinity grip with the wires on the outside. Full boot cover from Flightline Interiors. Very slightly rotated.

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:39 am Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

I tried to strike a reasonable balance between beauty and function.  

Actually I just got lazy.



Tosten grips and external wire run without a boot.  Looks utilitarian 

but neat to my eyes.  No regrets until this thread.



I chose the Tosten grip because the Infinity had 1 or two more functions 

than I could see using.  I also  liked the rotating ability because the 

most comfortable position is far from straight ahead as someone else has 

noted.  Rotating is even better and the Tosten does that very well.



After 2 years of flying I use the mic button and trim hat  all the 

time.  But since the AP is normally connected, I use the the AP disco 

100% and the Transponder ident 50% of the time.  Don't use the flip flop 

at all.  Can't think of another function I would actually use if on the 

stick.



Bill "only slightly embarrassed as I look at my taped up stick move all 

by itself" Watson

On 7/21/2013 7:37 PM, Bob Turner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My plane is definitely function first, beauty last. I ran the wires, in a protective covering, on the outside.

 Adding to Robin's comment, one nice feature of the Tosten grip is that the hold down screw rides in a groove. With it snug but not tight the grip rotates naturally with your hand, as you move the stick.



 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 10:58 am Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

On 7/22/2013 2:38 PM, Bill Watson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

snip

 	  Quote: 	
		   I chose the Tosten grip because the Infinity had 1 or two more 

 functions than I could see using.  I also  liked the rotating ability 

 because the most comfortable position is far from straight ahead as 

 someone else has noted.  Rotating is even better and the Tosten does 

 that very well.

I just didn't like the looks of the Tosten, although the swivel function 

was pretty neat.

 	  Quote: 	

 After 2 years of flying I use the mic button and trim hat  all the 

 time.  But since the AP is normally connected, I use the the AP disco 

 100% and the Transponder ident 50% of the time.  Don't use the flip 

 flop at all.  Can't think of another function I would actually use if 

 on the stick.

Part of the reason for my choosing the Infinity is .... I'll have 

aileron and rudder trim driven by model airplane servos.  Maxed out the 

switches with only one momentary switch not spoke for.  I figured that I 

could let switches go unused Vs. adding switches later .......

One comment on running the huge number of wires .... I have all wires 

running through a DB-25 that connects to a harness.  The harness is 3 

DB-25s, one mounted each side behind the pilot/copilot calf and one in 

the center tunnel for distribution .... all in parallel.  I can easily 

install a switch to break the copilots ground rendering that stick inop 

... just haven't found a good place to put the switch.

Linn .... through the stick.

 	  Quote: 	

 Bill "only slightly embarrassed as I look at my taped up stick move 

 all by itself" Watson

 On 7/21/2013 7:37 PM, Bob Turner wrote:

> 

>

> My plane is definitely function first, beauty last. I ran the wires, 

> in a protective covering, on the outside.

> Adding to Robin's comment, one nice feature of the Tosten grip is 

> that the hold down screw rides in a groove. With it snug but not 

> tight the grip rotates naturally with your hand, as you move the stick.

>

> --------

> Bob Turner

> RV-10 QB

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

hotwheels

Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 240

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll

I have Tosten grips and like them a lot. I ran the wires inside the stick (a pain) and then decided to use the Flightline stick covers. Does wiring inside or outside matter? Not much. Once you get in the plane and close the door, all you see is the panel and outside. 



I did wire in DB15 connectors and am glad I did so as they've been in and out several times.



Be advised that lots of folks (me included) have had to bend the sticks to allow for adequate fwd clearance. I used a mandrel that my ME buddy made instead of a hydraulic press.



Cheers,

Jay

433RV - Phase 1

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:41 am Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires inside

the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without

unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick,

right?



Carlos  

-----Mensagem original-----

De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de hotwheels

Enviada: 23 de julho de 2013 15:23

Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Assunto: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll






I have Tosten grips and like them a lot. I ran the wires inside the stick (a

pain) and then decided to use the Flightline stick covers. Does wiring

inside or outside matter? Not much. Once you get in the plane and close the

door, all you see is the panel and outside. 



I did wire in DB15 connectors and am glad I did so as they've been in and

out several times.



Be advised that lots of folks (me included) have had to bend the sticks to

allow for adequate fwd clearance. I used a mandrel that my ME buddy made

instead of a hydraulic press.



Cheers,

Jay

433RV - Phase 1





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405158#405158

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:18 am Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

There's no way to get the solder-cup       connectors through the stick socket without really weakening the       socket.  Just drill a hole the size you need for the number of       wires.  I have one stick with the connector on to do testing.        I'll have to pull the wires from the connector and feed them       through the hole and re-insert them back into the housing ....       very carefully!!!!

       

       I'm a NASA certified solderer and have good tools but I HATE solder cup DB connectors.  I       changed out all my solder cup connectors for crimp-on pins.

       

       I had to pull a lot of wires loose from my DB connectors because I       can't see or can't count!!!!              

       

       Using the crimp pins also helps when you want to add a wire to a       connector that's buried down in the innards where you can't solder       well.

       You can get connectors, shells, pins, crimper and removal tool at       http://steinair.com/.  No, I don't get any discount!!! 

       

       If you're replacing solder cups with crimps you can use the shells       you have.  I used DB connectors for all the low current cabling       and Molex for the high current ones.  Molex for the same reasons       ... removeable and crimp.  I have ratcheting crimp tools, one for       lugs one for DB pins and one for molex pins.  Pricey, but well       worth it to make good air-tight connections.  You can't go wrong       using the proper tools.

       Linn

       

       On 7/23/2013 11:39 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:

     

     [quote]        	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)



Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires inside

the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without

unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick,

right?



Carlos  

-----Mensagem original-----

De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)

[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Em nome de hotwheels

Enviada: 23 de julho de 2013 15:23

Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Assunto: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll



--> RV10-List message posted by: "hotwheels" <jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com> (jaybrinkmeyer(at)yahoo.com)



I have Tosten grips and like them a lot. I ran the wires inside the stick (a

pain) and then decided to use the Flightline stick covers. Does wiring

inside or outside matter? Not much. Once you get in the plane and close the

door, all you see is the panel and outside. 



I did wire in DB15 connectors and am glad I did so as they've been in and

out several times.



Be advised that lots of folks (me included) have had to bend the sticks to

allow for adequate fwd clearance. I used a mandrel that my ME buddy made

instead of a hydraulic press.



Cheers,

Jay

433RV - Phase 1





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405158#405158



-----

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

	
     [b]

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:37 am Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

Ok, Linn, I was not only referring to unsoldering but also to “uncrimping”.

What I meant is that, after you ran the fat blue cable inside the stick, and you install the DB connector, you will never be able to pull off the Infinity (or other) grip without cutting the wires…

 

Carlos  

 

P.S. – if you would be interested in crossing the big pond and come to Europe, I could use a NASA certified solderer! I hate installing DB connectors inside the fuselage…

 

 

De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] Em nome de Linn Walters

Enviada: 23 de julho de 2013 17:18

Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Assunto: Re: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll

 

There's no way to get the solder-cup connectors through the stick socket without really weakening the socket.  Just drill a hole the size you need for the number of wires.  I have one stick with the connector on to do testing.  I'll have to pull the wires from the connector and feed them through the hole and re-insert them back into the housing .... very carefully!!!!



I'm a NASA certified solderer and have good tools but I HATE solder cup DB connectors.  I changed out all my solder cup connectors for crimp-on pins.



I had to pull a lot of wires loose from my DB connectors because I can't see or can't count!!!!   



Using the crimp pins also helps when you want to add a wire to a connector that's buried down in the innards where you can't solder well.

You can get connectors, shells, pins, crimper and removal tool at http://steinair.com/.  No, I don't get any discount!!! 



If you're replacing solder cups with crimps you can use the shells you have.  I used DB connectors for all the low current cabling and Molex for the high current ones.  Molex for the same reasons ... removeable and crimp.  I have ratcheting crimp tools, one for lugs one for DB pins and one for molex pins.  Pricey, but well worth it to make good air-tight connections.  You can't go wrong using the proper tools.

Linn



On 7/23/2013 11:39 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt) Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires insidethe stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off withoutunsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick,right? Carlos     	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll

With crimped pins I don't think you'd need to cut the wires.  After you extracted the pins from the D-sub connector, the diameter of the mass of freed pins would be close to that of the "blue" wire, or at least close enough to allow you to pull it all back up through the stick.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 9:08 am Post subject: Brain trust stick wiring poll

You don't "un-crimp", just simply pull the pins out of the connector. 



Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 23, 2013, at 12:35 PM, "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:

  <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->

Ok, Linn, I was not only referring to unsoldering but also to â€œuncrimpingâ€.

What I meant is that, after you ran the fat blue cable inside the stick, and you install the DB connector, you will never be able to pull off the Infinity (or other) grip without cutting the wiresâ€¦

 

Carlos  

 

P.S. â€“ if you would be interested in crossing the big pond and come to Europe, I could use a NASA certified solderer! I hate installing DB connectors inside the fuselageâ€¦

 

 

De: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] Em nome de Linn Walters

Enviada: 23 de julho de 2013 17:18

Para: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Assunto: Re: Re: Brain trust stick wiring poll

 

There's no way to get the solder-cup connectors through the stick socket without really weakening the socket.  Just drill a hole the size you need for the number of wires.  I have one stick with the connector on to do testing.  I'll have to pull the wires from the connector and feed them through the hole and re-insert them back into the housing .... very carefully!!!!



I'm a NASA certified solderer and have good tools but I HATE solder cup DB connectors.  I changed out all my solder cup connectors for crimp-on pins.



I had to pull a lot of wires loose from my DB connectors because I can't see or can't count!!!!   



Using the crimp pins also helps when you want to add a wire to a connector that's buried down in the innards where you can't solder well.

You can get connectors, shells, pins, crimper and removal tool at http://steinair.com/.  No, I don't get any discount!!! 



If you're replacing solder cups with crimps you can use the shells you have.  I used DB connectors for all the low current cabling and Molex for the high current ones.  Molex for the same reasons ... removeable and crimp.  I have ratcheting crimp tools, one for lugs one for DB pins and one for molex pins.  Pricey, but well worth it to make good air-tight connections.  You can't go wrong using the proper tools.

Linn



On 7/23/2013 11:39 AM, Carlos Trigo wrote:

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		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt> (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt) Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires insidethe stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off withoutunsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick,right? Carlos     	
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		  Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires inside 	
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		  Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires inside 	
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		  Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires inside 	
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		  Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires inside 	
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		  Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires inside 	
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		  Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires inside 	
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		  Those of you that used DB15 and DB 25 connectors and ran the wires inside 	
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		  the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without 	
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		  the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without 	
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		  the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without 	
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		  the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without 	
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		  the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without 	
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		  the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without 	
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		  the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without 	
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		  the stick, I suppose that you are not able to pull the grips off without 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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		  unsoldering the DB connectors, because they don't fit through the stick, 	
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