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bsponcil(at)belinblank.or
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 Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:51 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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Walking around OSH I noticed Continental is supposedly starting production on a 240HP air cooled, direct drive diesel motor (TD-300 see attachment). Seems a bit heavy but otherwise it appears to be a potential fit for the RV-10 airframe. I'm wondering if anyone has considered this engine for their -10.
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: TD-300 |
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Two reasons it won't work. "Only 230 hp", and weight is more than Cont IO-550, at least 50 lbs heavier than Lyc IO-540. W&B won't work with that much wt out front.
While the hp would be sufficient, especially if it was turbo-charged, you would need the wt to be equal to or less than Lyc O-540. You would also need someone to build an engine mount for it.
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:50 AM, <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org (bsponcil(at)belinblank.org)> wrote:
| Quote: | Walking around OSH I noticed Continental is supposedly starting production on a 240HP air cooled, direct drive diesel motor (TD-300 see attachment). Seems a bit heavy but otherwise it appears to be a potential fit for the RV-10 airframe. I'm wondering if anyone has considered this engine for their -10.
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
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[quote][b]
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Kelly McMullen
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:52 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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Right on Kelly.... but for quite a while refueling would certainly be an issue.... who has diesel at the airport.
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: TD-300
Two reasons it won't work. "Only 230 hp", and weight is more than Cont IO-550, at least 50 lbs heavier than Lyc IO-540. W&B won't work with that much wt out front.
While the hp would be sufficient, especially if it was turbo-charged, you would need the wt to be equal to or less than Lyc O-540. You would also need someone to build an engine mount for it.
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:50 AM, <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org (bsponcil(at)belinblank.org)> wrote:
| Quote: | Walking around OSH I noticed Continental is supposedly starting production on a 240HP air cooled, direct drive diesel motor (TD-300 see attachment). Seems a bit heavy but otherwise it appears to be a potential fit for the RV-10 airframe. I'm wondering if anyone has considered this engine for their -10.
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
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| Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank" rel="nofollo==
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Don A. McDonald
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:54 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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Right on Kelly..... as usual.... but for quite a while refueling would be a definite challenge.... who has diesel at the airport.
From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: TD-300
Two reasons it won't work. "Only 230 hp", and weight is more than Cont IO-550, at least 50 lbs heavier than Lyc IO-540. W&B won't work with that much wt out front.
While the hp would be sufficient, especially if it was turbo-charged, you would need the wt to be equal to or less than Lyc O-540. You would also need someone to build an engine mount for it.
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 8:50 AM, <bsponcil(at)belinblank.org (bsponcil(at)belinblank.org)> wrote:
| Quote: | Walking around OSH I noticed Continental is supposedly starting production on a 240HP air cooled, direct drive diesel motor (TD-300 see attachment). Seems a bit heavy but otherwise it appears to be a potential fit for the RV-10 airframe. I'm wondering if anyone has considered this engine for their -10.
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
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Don A. McDonald
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cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:27 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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It runs on JetA, which for some will still be a snag, but the weight-power and install issues are huge. Probably wont be cheap either, but it's a start
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rv10flyer
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
Posts: 364
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:46 am Post subject: Re: TD-300 |
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It was FAA certified in April 2013. No thanks, I won't support communist China if I have a choice.
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:12 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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At the airport it is called Jet A and virtually all aircraft diesel engines are designed to run on it. Yes, it has somewhat different additives, but is a real close cousin to Diesel #2. It could be a problem at airports that don't have any turbine powered customers, but a lot of crop dusters, King Airs, Caravans, TBM's etc are creating demand for jet fuel at many "small" airports. I don't see fueling as much of a limitation. Wt, Bal, and mounting are likely to be the deal killers.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:52 AM, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Right on Kelly.... but for quite a while refueling would certainly be an issue.... who has diesel at the airport.
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- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
[quote][b]
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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bsponcil(at)belinblank.or
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:27 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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I could be wrong but the dry weight of the lyc IO-540 is something like 440lbs which would make the TD-300 20lbs heavier rather than 50. And by the time you throw in the accessories I?m guessing that difference narrows a bit more. These motors are flying in front of 182s so it doesn't seem like they could be THAT far out in terms of W&B. I would say the biggest hurdle would be fabricating a cowling. As someone else said, at least it?s a start.
-Brian
[quote]--
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:07 am Post subject: Re: TD-300 |
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I see the power is very similar to an IO-540 at the same RPM.
Anyone know why the rpm's are limited to such a low value? Too much spinning mass?
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:08 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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The biggest hurdle is the price tag. With the lawyers controlling what we pay for aviation related components the price of any new engine will be governed by liability cost.
Carl
Still dreaming of 91/96UL wide distribution to drive down fuel cost
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bsponcil(at)belinblank.org
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 11:27 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: TD-300
I could be wrong but the dry weight of the lyc IO-540 is something like 440lbs which would make the TD-300 20lbs heavier rather than 50. And by the time you throw in the accessories I?m guessing that difference narrows a bit more. These motors are flying in front of 182s so it doesn't seem like they could be THAT far out in terms of W&B. I would say the biggest hurdle would be fabricating a cowling. As someone else said, at least it?s a start.
-Brian
[quote]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:09 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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The Lycoming Operator's Manual puts the IO540-D4A5 engine dry wt as 402 lbs, so yes the wt difference is at least 40 or more lbs. Very significant.
On 7/31/2013 8:26 AM, bsponcil(at)belinblank.org (bsponcil(at)belinblank.org) wrote:
[quote]
I could be wrong but the dry weight of the lyc IO-540 is something like 440lbs which would make the TD-300 20lbs heavier rather than 50. And by the time you throw in the accessories I?m guessing that difference narrows a bit more. These motors are flying in front of 182s so it doesn't seem like they could be THAT far out in terms of W&B. I would say the biggest hurdle would be fabricating a cowling. As someone else said, at least it?s a start.
-Brian
[quote]--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:10 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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Diesels are "torque" producers at low rpm, unlike gas engines that tend
to produce more power the higher rpm you can spin them.
On 7/31/2013 9:07 AM, Bob Turner wrote:
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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psychobob96(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:17 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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Most diesels are limited to a low RPM because of the stresses involved with compression ignition engine. Even most truck/equipment/industrial diesels redline below 2000RPM. On Jul 31, 2013 9:10 AM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>
I see the power is very similar to an IO-540 at the same RPM.
Anyone know why the rpm's are limited to such a low value? Too much spinning mass?
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=405721#405721
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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le, List Admin.
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Bajajim
Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:29 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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My Cummings 6.7 redlines at 3,100 Dodge Pickup…
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jason Wodack
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 9:17 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: TD-300
Most diesels are limited to a low RPM because of the stresses involved with compression ignition engine. Even most truck/equipment/industrial diesels redline below 2000RPM.
On Jul 31, 2013 9:10 AM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:01234567
[quote][b]
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psychobob96(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:55 am Post subject: TD-300 |
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Sorry Jim, didn't specify. I was speaking of Heavy truck diesels, heavy equipment, and industrial engine applications.
Jason On Jul 31, 2013 10:37 AM, "JimVillani" <Jim(at)jimvillani.com (Jim(at)jimvillani.com)> wrote:[quote]
My Cummings 6.7 redlines at 3,100 Dodge Pickup…
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jason Wodack
Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 9:17 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: TD-300
Most diesels are limited to a low RPM because of the stresses involved with compression ignition engine. Even most truck/equipment/industrial diesels redline below 2000RPM.
On Jul 31, 2013 9:10 AM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:0 12345 67
8
[b]
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Gordon Anderson
Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Switzerland
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:13 pm Post subject: TD-300 |
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Just for fun can any of you lucky enough to be "on location" find out what prop it was certified with? At 17:1 compression ratio a direct drive engine will give a prop a real hard time, which is why Hartzell developed a special one for the SMA engine some years ago. Lots of carbon and $$$ to match, which helped neither W&B nor the pocketbook.
Gordon Anderson
41015 Switzerland
On 31.07.2013, at 16:11, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]At the airport it is called Jet A and virtually all aircraft diesel engines are designed to run on it. Yes, it has somewhat different additives, but is a real close cousin to Diesel #2. It could be a problem at airports that don't have any turbine powered customers, but a lot of crop dusters, King Airs, Caravans, TBM's etc are creating demand for jet fuel at many "small" airports. I don't see fueling as much of a limitation. Wt, Bal, and mounting are likely to be the deal killers.
On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 5:52 AM, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Right on Kelly.... but for quite a while refueling would certainly be an issue.... who has diesel at the airport.
|
--
- sent from the microchip implanted in my forearm
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napolin(at)me.com
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| Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:43 pm Post subject: TD-300 |
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A composite MT prop would make up for some of the weight difference and for the rest you might need 5 or 10 lbs in the tail
I remember attending a presentation by Deltahawk maybe 5 years ago. They claimed that the MT prop worked with their engine where as the standard metal props did not. No idea if thats true or not at this point.
Nikolaos Napoli
On Jul 31, 2013, at 11:26 AM, bsponcil(at)belinblank.org (bsponcil(at)belinblank.org) wrote:
[quote]
I could be wrong but the dry weight of the lyc IO-540 is something like 440lbs which would make the TD-300 20lbs heavier rather than 50. And by the time you throw in the accessories I?m guessing that difference narrows a bit more. These motors are flying in front of 182s so it doesn't seem like they could be THAT far out in terms of W&B. I would say the biggest hurdle would be fabricating a cowling. As someone else said, at least it?s a start.
-Brian
[quote]--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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