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James.Bernier(at)stvinc.c
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 Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 4:45 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Funny how an increase in spending during a "sequester" can wind up causing all these cuts in services. Seems to me Obama is trying to hurt his enemies as much as possible. Did he ever cut the funding for the study of "Why Lesbians are Fat?"
Looks like air shows may be hurting in this country next year...
http://news.yahoo.com/wis-air-show-leads-fight-against-federal-fees-152018958.html
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:13 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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OR did he (Obama) ever bother to consider reducing his very costly air travel by 10%....hell no!
Dennis
From: James P. Bernier <James.Bernier(at)stvinc.com>
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 7:42 AM
Subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows
Funny how an increase in spending during a "sequester" can wind up causing all these cuts in services. Seems to me Obama is trying to hurt his enemies as much as possible. Did he ever cut the funding for the study of "Why Lesbians are Fat?"
Looks like air shows may be hurting in this country next year...
http://news.yahoo.com/wis-air-show-leads-fight-against-federal-fees-152018958.html
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
Download our STVInk App!
Visit us at our website: http://www.stvinc.com
The information contained in this electronic message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are informed that any dissemination, copying or disclosure of the material contained herein, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify STV and purge this message.
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 5:35 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Hmmmm and here I thought the sequester was done by congress.
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 9:11 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: ATC Fees at Air Shows
OR did he (Obama) ever bother to consider reducing his very costly air travel by 10%....hell no!
Dennis
From: James P. Bernier <James.Bernier(at)stvinc.com (James.Bernier(at)stvinc.com)>
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013 7:42 AM
Subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows
Funny how an increase in spending during a "sequester" can wind up causing all these cuts in services. Seems to me Obama is trying to hurt his enemies as much as possible. Did he ever cut the funding for the study of "Why Lesbians are Fat?"
Looks like air shows may be hurting in this country next year...
http://news.yahoo.com/wis-air-show-leads-fight-against-federal-fees-152018958.html
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
Download our STVInk App!
Visit us at our website: http://www.stvinc.com
The information contained in this electronic message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are informed that any dissemination, copying or disclosure of the material contained herein, in whole or in part, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify STV and purge this message.
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[quote][b]
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:05 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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True, but it still begs the question, what "cuts" did Obama make to his
budget? Or did he even consider cutting his spending?
I have heard there was an internal white house memo that stated if the
sequester came to pass, all cuts were to be the most visible and have
the greatest impact on the general public.
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 8/1/2013 8:33 AM, George Coy wrote:
| Quote: |
Hmmmm and here I thought the sequester was done by congress.
*From:*owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *A. Dennis
Savarese
*Sent:* Thursday, August 01, 2013 9:11 AM
*To:* yak-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: ATC Fees at Air Shows
OR did he (Obama) ever bother to consider reducing his very costly air
travel by 10%....hell no!
Dennis
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:*James P. Bernier <James.Bernier(at)stvinc.com
<mailto:James.Bernier(at)stvinc.com>>
*To:* "yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>"
<yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>>
*Sent:* Thursday, August 1, 2013 7:42 AM
*Subject:* ATC Fees at Air Shows
Funny how an increase in spending during a "sequester" can wind up
causing all these cuts in services. Seems to me Obama is trying to
hurt his enemies as much as possible. Did he ever cut the funding for
the study of "Why Lesbians are Fat?"
Looks like air shows may be hurting in this country next year...
http://news.yahoo.com/wis-air-show-leads-fight-against-federal-fees-152018958.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
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Visit us at our website: http://www.stvinc.com <http://www.stvinc.com/>
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not the intended recipient, you are informed that any dissemination,
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part, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:27 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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The proverbial "buck" used to stop on the President's desk, but
now-a-days the buck stops where-ever it can be used for the best
political gain.
The subject being "ATC Fees at Air Shows", I feel it is safe to say that
charges to General Aviation for Air Traffic Control have been a theme
and desire of the present Administration for quite some time, and were
"by and large" endorsed in an interview with President Obama last year.
So "Sequester" or not, this kind of "fund raising" clearly smacks of
something influenced by no less than the President and his view of how
to raise funds. I sincerely doubt that the FAA, on their own, went out
and put this kind of practice into effect, especially across such a
broad stage.
Since all of our aircraft are "Experimental Exhibition" this topic
probably falls into the realm of being a legitimate topic.
At the prices we are talking about, it would seem that a reasonable
alternative might be to have such large organizations as the EAA go out
and contract their own Air Traffic Control services through a 3rd party
provider just as the FAA does now. I'm sure no vehicle currently
presently exists for that, but if such charges for local services
continue, it might eventually become a topic.
Mark Bitterlich
--
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gill.g(at)gpimail.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:11 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Will the Obama bashers ever give up?
Gill
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:20 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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NOPE.
Pappy
Sent from my iPad from some where on The 3rd rock from the Sun.
On Aug 5, 2013, at 19:08, "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g(at)gpimail.com> wrote:
[quote]
Will the Obama bashers ever give up?
Gill
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 3:22 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Probably not Gill. It's tough to be a liberal these days.
Doc, you're not going to change any minds. Just sayin.
Mark
From: Gill Gutierrez
Sent: Mon 8/5/2013 7:08 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: ATC Fees at Air Shows
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g(at)gpimail.com> Will the Obama bashers ever give up? Gill --
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crobin(at)skyvantage.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:04 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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HAHAHHAA! Â That's funny... Â Oh, wait... Â You're serious? Â 
~C
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Gill Gutierrez <gill.g(at)gpimail.com (gill.g(at)gpimail.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> Yak-List message posted by: "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g(at)gpimail.com (gill.g(at)gpimail.com)>
Will the Obama bashers ever give up?
Gill[b]
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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True
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 5, 2013, at 6:19 PM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
[quote] SPAN.skype_pnh_container_AEEB20B6-2CBF-4F04-8C76-4B754DB03E30 { } SPAN.skype_pnh_container SPAN.skype_pnh_mark { DISPLAY: none !important } (at)media Screen { SPAN.skype_pnh_print_container_1375742317 { DISPLAY: none !important } SPAN.skype_pnh_container { LIST-STYLE: disc none outside; PAGE-BREAK-AFTER: auto !important; Z-INDEX: 0 !important; BORDER-BOTTOM: #000000 0px; POSITION: static !important; TEXT-ALIGN: left !important; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 0px; PAGE-BREAK-BEFORE: auto !important; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px !important; OVERFLOW-X: hidden !important; OVERFLOW-Y: hidden !important; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none !important; FONT-STYLE: normal !important; TEXT-INDENT: 0px !important; MARGIN: 0px; PAGE-BREAK-INSIDE: auto !important; PADDING-LEFT: 0px !important; WIDTH: auto !important; BOTTOM: auto !important; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px !important; DISPLAY: inline !important; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate !important; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica Neue Regular', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif !important; BACKGROUND: no-repeat 0px 0px; 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It's tough to be a liberal these days.
Doc, you're not going to change any minds. Just sayin.
Mark
From: Gill Gutierrez
Sent: Mon 8/5/2013 7:08 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: ATC Fees at Air Shows
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g(at)gpimail.com (gill.g(at)gpimail.com)> Will the Obama bashers ever give up? Gill --
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fish(at)aviation-tech.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Gil,
When Obama, pulls his head from his ####.
Or when he finally starts doing the right thing!
Or possibly when he is impeached for violating federal law!
The list goes on and on and on. . . .
John Fischer
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 5, 2013, at 7:19 PM, "Roger Kemp M.D." <viperdoc(at)mindspring.com (viperdoc(at)mindspring.com)> wrote:
[quote]True
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 5, 2013, at 6:19 PM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
[quote] SPAN.skype_pnh_container_AEEB20B6-2CBF-4F04-8C76-4B754DB03E30 { } SPAN.skype_pnh_container SPAN.skype_pnh_mark { DISPLAY: none !important } (at)media Screen { SPAN.skype_pnh_print_container_1375742317 { DISPLAY: none !important } SPAN.skype_pnh_container { LIST-STYLE: disc none outside; PAGE-BREAK-AFTER: auto !important; Z-INDEX: 0 !important; BORDER-BOTTOM: #000000 0px; POSITION: static !important; TEXT-ALIGN: left !important; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 0px; PAGE-BREAK-BEFORE: auto !important; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px !important; OVERFLOW-X: hidden !important; OVERFLOW-Y: hidden !important; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none !important; FONT-STYLE: normal !important; TEXT-INDENT: 0px !important; MARGIN: 0px; PAGE-BREAK-INSIDE: auto !important; PADDING-LEFT: 0px !important; WIDTH: auto !important; BOTTOM: auto !important; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px !important; DISPLAY: inline !important; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate !important; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica Neue Regular', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif !important; BACKGROUND: no-repeat 0px 0px; 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It's tough to be a liberal these days.
Doc, you're not going to change any minds. Just sayin.
Mark
From: Gill Gutierrez
Sent: Mon 8/5/2013 7:08 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: ATC Fees at Air Shows
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Gill Gutierrez" <gill.g(at)gpimail.com (gill.g(at)gpimail.com)> Will the Obama bashers ever give up? Gill --
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A35plt
Joined: 14 Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Wiesbaden, Germany
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| Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:40 pm Post subject: Re: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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EAA Oshkosh is a privately owned business is my understanding. EAA is owned by the poberezny family IIRC. The government is not in the business of providing free support to a privately owned, for profit event. It can be argued that because of sales taxes generated by fuel sales, etc that ATC support should be provided. This doesn't work in the real world. Go to any Car or Gun show, for example, and you will find that even though there is local law enforcement there they are being paid by the event to be there to work.
I am no Obama fan but the constant hysterical blaming of Obama only weakens arguments as well as making it that much harder to take the Republicans seriously. Who elected Obama? The Republicans did IMHO by not having stellar candidates to run against him. Mccain=Nut Job, Romney= Obviously a part of big business / financial interests at a time when distrust of the financial industry is at an all time low.
If the Repubs don't want Hillary elected they had better get on the ball finding a good candidate. Right now all I hear is crickets on that subject...
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:29 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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It's debatable whether this is a valid YAK-List topic but we've strayed
over that boundary many times.
I am not sure whether the EAA is a "privately owned business" per se.
That's a legal topic I would rather not broach, but let's for a moment
assume you are correct, because in my opinion it really doesn't matter
anyway.
KOSH is a public use airport with a Control Tower. It is owned by the
COUNTY and not the "EAA". That control tower is authorized and managed
by the FAA.
This FAA managed Control Tower is required to provide AIR TRAFFIC
CONTROL to all aircraft taking off from, and arriving to that specific
airport. This is not an OPTIONAL FUNCTION, as in "Car or Gun Show
Security", so that comparison does not "fly"! In any case, that Control
Tower is RESPONSIBLE FOR FLIGHT SAFETY UNDER FEDERAL LAW.
Every single towered airport keeps a count of every take-off and landing
performed. Those numbers are used to determine manning levels at the
tower. If you have a lot of activity at the airport, be it General
Aviation, Military, or Commercial, the FAA will increase or decrease
manning levels accordingly.
There are many cases where airport activity increases dramatically for a
number of reasons. When that happens, and that activity is known in
advance, the FAA increases manning levels accordingly, regardless of the
reason. This happens all the time, all over the country, EVERY SINGLE
DAY.
As I said, the FAA provides Air Traffic Control in order to provide
mandated FLIGHT SAFETY to folks in the air, and the general public on
the ground as mandated by FEDERAL LAW. They are funded by the Federal
Government through a number of means in order to meet this REQUIREMENT.
That funding does not include charging the Aviation Public directly for
their services, which is why the EAA is taking the FAA to court.
Keep in mind that these kinds of charges have never been made before, to
the EAA or anyone else. It is a direct attempt at "Usage Charges",
which President Obama during a direct interview said that he and his
administration supported. If you consider that fact to be: "constant
hysterical blaming of Obama", then so be it.
The FAA has never done this before, the FAA is under control of the
present administration, the present administration has promoted "Usage
Charges" to General Aviation. Now normally I would think 2+2=4
However, you are implying that 2+2= "constant hysterical blaming of
Obama"
Really? Good luck with that.
The subject is ATC Fees at Air Shows. It really should be: "Usage
Charges of any type to General Aviation". Oshkosh was just the opening
shot. More is sure to follow. I can't imagine why any General Aviation
pilot or aircraft owner would think that this kind of thing makes sense
and would support it in any way, shape, or form, PARTICULARLY when the
EAA was involved, which is an organization that does nothing but support
the folks on the Yak-List.
--
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Firedog(at)visi.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:03 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Mark,
Well stated...Thank you for reminding all of us about FAA tower staffing and
responsibilities.
ras
--
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rijaeger(at)wausau.k12.wi
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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As usual, Mark has a great grip on some solid facts here. No organization will ever be perfect in everyone's eyes - EAA included. But they do strive to be the best and make their membership happy / proud of what they / we do. As far as I know - EAA is not a "business." It was founded by Paul Poberezny as a club on the basis that aviation ROCKS and should be within reach of the "common man" w/ a vision and drive - not just surgeons, CEO's and assorted "big-leaguer's." Additionally, if you read the yearly financial report, they deal routinely in 7 and 8 figures regarding cost and OUTput. I went to my 28th consecutive OSH / AirVenture this year and found it to be healthy and refreshing - despite a still-struggling national economy and complete lack of current military hardware. Occasionally, during my 10-day stay, I strayed off-field for a change of pace for a bite. When locals engaged me in conversation regarding the event, I was stunned how much erroneous / negative hype was out there. I heard things like EAA got too "greedy" and now that the FAA has stepped in, EAA is "penalizing" it's members w/ excessive ticket prices, parking prices and off-the-scale food prices. INCORRECT. I was routinely excited to correct that misinformation when the opportunity arose. The ticket prices have not escalated past the usual minimal yearly increase - nor did parking. Our membership dues have not risen more than $10 in 20 years. And food this year - besides being the most diverse ever offered on the field - was priced just as if you went to those venues OFF field...Subway, Machine Shed, A & W, Etc. When is the last time you got a cheeseburger for $3 (at) EAA? Conversely, businesses NEAR EAA look forward to those 10 days as a time to gouge. The Hilton getting $400 / night? Heck, I stay at the dorms which were $15 / night "back in the day" and just went to $70 / night this year. Every time I've written EAA I've received a personal reply. I wrote Paul back in the 90's to say "thanks for all you've done" and he invited me to work w/ him on his PT-23 restoration. I worked side-by-side w/ one of the most sincere & dedicated aviators ever.
I don't know. I'm a fan I guess. Every time I chat w/ someone who traveled hundreds or thousands of miles - or even around the world to partake in AirVenture, I almost feel guilty it's only 90 miles away by car and 35 minutes by air. But maybe instead of guilty...I should just feel "blessed."
EAA isn't perfect. Neither is America. But MY "perfection" will never be YOUR perfection and vice versa. Hopefully, we can all live relatively happily w/ the way things are - and if / when we see them endangered, be proactive instead of simply passively disgusted. There will ALWAYS be room for improvement. But before we start pointing fingers though, let's look a little deeper for the facts.
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
It's debatable whether this is a valid YAK-List topic but we've strayed
over that boundary many times.
I am not sure whether the EAA is a "privately owned business" per se.
That's a legal topic I would rather not broach, but let's for a moment
assume you are correct, because in my opinion it really doesn't matter
anyway.
KOSH is a public use airport with a Control Tower. It is owned by the
COUNTY and not the "EAA". That control tower is authorized and managed
by the FAA.
This FAA managed Control Tower is required to provide AIR TRAFFIC
CONTROL to all aircraft taking off from, and arriving to that specific
airport. This is not an OPTIONAL FUNCTION, as in "Car or Gun Show
Security", so that comparison does not "fly"! In any case, that Control
Tower is RESPONSIBLE FOR FLIGHT SAFETY UNDER FEDERAL LAW.
Every single towered airport keeps a count of every take-off and landing
performed. Those numbers are used to determine manning levels at the
tower. If you have a lot of activity at the airport, be it General
Aviation, Military, or Commercial, the FAA will increase or decrease
manning levels accordingly.
There are many cases where airport activity increases dramatically for a
number of reasons. When that happens, and that activity is known in
advance, the FAA increases manning levels accordingly, regardless of the
reason. This happens all the time, all over the country, EVERY SINGLE
DAY.
As I said, the FAA provides Air Traffic Control in order to provide
mandated FLIGHT SAFETY to folks in the air, and the general public on
the ground as mandated by FEDERAL LAW. They are funded by the Federal
Government through a number of means in order to meet this REQUIREMENT.
That funding does not include charging the Aviation Public directly for
their services, which is why the EAA is taking the FAA to court.
Keep in mind that these kinds of charges have never been made before, to
the EAA or anyone else. It is a direct attempt at "Usage Charges",
which President Obama during a direct interview said that he and his
administration supported. If you consider that fact to be: "constant
hysterical blaming of Obama", then so be it.
The FAA has never done this before, the FAA is under control of the
present administration, the present administration has promoted "Usage
Charges" to General Aviation. Now normally I would think 2+2=4
However, you are implying that 2+2= "constant hysterical blaming of
Obama"
Really? Good luck with that.
The subject is ATC Fees at Air Shows. It really should be: "Usage
Charges of any type to General Aviation". Oshkosh was just the opening
shot. More is sure to follow. I can't imagine why any General Aviation
pilot or aircraft owner would think that this kind of thing makes sense
and would support it in any way, shape, or form, PARTICULARLY when the
EAA was involved, which is an organization that does nothing but support
the folks on the Yak-List.
--
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William Halverson
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:46 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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BZ Mark.
On 8/19/2013 10:25 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:
| Quote: |
It's debatable whether this is a valid YAK-List topic but we've strayed
over that boundary many times.
I am not sure whether the EAA is a "privately owned business" per se.
That's a legal topic I would rather not broach, but let's for a moment
assume you are correct, because in my opinion it really doesn't matter
anyway.
|
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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:11 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Here I tend to agree with Mark, BUT, several problems are apparent, "Sequestration" and the ever creeping expansion of government. This expansion of government, occurs at the local level, when local politicians (mayors or city commissioners) to justify their existence by pushing for control towers, though their federal congressmen, to get the FAA to put in a control tower, even if the amount of traffic didn't justify a control tower. The federal subsidies are to tempting for local politicos to pass up. With in 30 miles of my field are 5 control towers that can not be justified by the amount of traffic. 3 of them are there because of the influence of Emory Riddle at DAB. That's a political considering, not a operational one on any account. Right now because of the sequestration the FAA plans on shutting down 14 control towers in FL, the most of any state, and in my opinion, a good idea.
A pilot dependent on ground control, is a poor pilot in my book. It leads a pilot to not learn SA or develop pilot decision making skills. BTW one of the airports schedule to be closed is OSH. However that was not due for several months, so Mark's point is still valid. Now on those X-country, when you stop to refuel, how many airports do you find that are NOT operated by a private FBO? I fly a B-24 around the country. I often (to often in my opinion) the FBO is part of the local government structure (i.e. a political controlled money making business). I once was at an airport that had a control tower, 10 T hangars, country run FBO (4 employees), and one 5,000' runway. In the 3 days we were there, I saw ONE - repeat ONE - C-150 doing touch and go's One day! Nothing else. In the old days in the private sector, this is called 'feather bedding'. The only thing that stops feather bedding in government is your vote. And yes we can blame this of BO.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 8/19/2013 1:30:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil writes:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>
It's debatable whether this is a valid YAK-List topic but we've strayed
over that boundary many times.
I am not sure whether the EAA is a "privately owned business" per se.
That's a legal topic I would rather not broach, but let's for a moment
assume you are correct, because in my opinion it really doesn't matter
anyway.
KOSH is a public use airport with a Control Tower. It is owned by the
COUNTY and not the "EAA". That control tower is authorized and managed
by the FAA.
This FAA managed Control Tower is required to provide AIR TRAFFIC
CONTROL to all aircraft taking off from, and arriving to that specific
airport. This is not an OPTIONAL FUNCTION, as in "Car or Gun Show
Security", so that comparison does not "fly"! In any case, that Control
Tower is RESPONSIBLE FOR FLIGHT SAFETY UNDER FEDERAL LAW.
Every single towered airport keeps a count of every take-off and landing
performed. Those numbers are used to determine manning levels at the
tower. If you have a lot of activity at the airport, be it General
Aviation, Military, or Commercial, the FAA will increase or decrease
manning levels accordingly.
There are many cases where airport activity increases dramatically for a
number of reasons. When that happens, and that activity is known in
advance, the FAA increases manning levels accordingly, regardless of the
reason. This happens all the time, all over the country, EVERY SINGLE
DAY.
As I said, the FAA provides Air Traffic Control in order to provide
mandated FLIGHT SAFETY to folks in the air, and the general public on
the ground as mandated by FEDERAL LAW. They are funded by the Federal
Government through a number of means in order to meet this REQUIREMENT.
That funding does not include charging the Aviation Public directly for
their services, which is why the EAA is taking the FAA to court.
Keep in mind that these kinds of charges have never been made before, to
the EAA or anyone else. It is a direct attempt at "Usage Charges",
which President Obama during a direct interview said that he and his
administration supported. If you consider that fact to be: "constant
hysterical blaming of Obama", then so be it.
The FAA has never done this before, the FAA is under control of the
present administration, the present administration has promoted "Usage
Charges" to General Aviation. Now normally I would think 2+2=4
However, you are implying that 2+2= "constant hysterical blaming of
Obama"
Really? Good luck with that.
The subject is ATC Fees at Air Shows. It really should be: "Usage
Charges of any type to General Aviation". Oshkosh was just the opening
shot. More is sure to follow. I can't imagine why any General Aviation
pilot or aircraft owner would think that this kind of thing makes sense
and would support it in any way, shape, or form, PARTICULARLY when the
EAA was involved, which is an organization that does nothing but support
the folks on the Yak-List.
--
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Adrian Coop Cooper
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 37
Location: Vancouver, BC
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Bill. For the benefit of non social media types like me, please explain the meaning/implication of BZ. Thanks. Coop.
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Coop |
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jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:53 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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|
Now I remember why I resigned from the Yak List...
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
"Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:
[quote]
It's debatable whether this is a valid YAK-List topic but we've strayed
over that boundary many times.
I am not sure whether the EAA is a "privately owned business" per se.
That's a legal topic I would rather not broach, but let's for a moment
assume you are correct, because in my opinion it really doesn't matter
anyway.
KOSH is a public use airport with a Control Tower. It is owned by the
COUNTY and not the "EAA". That control tower is authorized and managed
by the FAA.
This FAA managed Control Tower is required to provide AIR TRAFFIC
CONTROL to all aircraft taking off from, and arriving to that specific
airport. This is not an OPTIONAL FUNCTION, as in "Car or Gun Show
Security", so that comparison does not "fly"! In any case, that Control
Tower is RESPONSIBLE FOR FLIGHT SAFETY UNDER FEDERAL LAW.
Every single towered airport keeps a count of every take-off and landing
performed. Those numbers are used to determine manning levels at the
tower. If you have a lot of activity at the airport, be it General
Aviation, Military, or Commercial, the FAA will increase or decrease
manning levels accordingly.
There are many cases where airport activity increases dramatically for a
number of reasons. When that happens, and that activity is known in
advance, the FAA increases manning levels accordingly, regardless of the
reason. This happens all the time, all over the country, EVERY SINGLE
DAY.
As I said, the FAA provides Air Traffic Control in order to provide
mandated FLIGHT SAFETY to folks in the air, and the general public on
the ground as mandated by FEDERAL LAW. They are funded by the Federal
Government through a number of means in order to meet this REQUIREMENT.
That funding does not include charging the Aviation Public directly for
their services, which is why the EAA is taking the FAA to court.
Keep in mind that these kinds of charges have never been made before, to
the EAA or anyone else. It is a direct attempt at "Usage Charges",
which President Obama during a direct interview said that he and his
administration supported. If you consider that fact to be: "constant
hysterical blaming of Obama", then so be it.
The FAA has never done this before, the FAA is under control of the
present administration, the present administration has promoted "Usage
Charges" to General Aviation. Now normally I would think 2+2=4
However, you are implying that 2+2= "constant hysterical blaming of
Obama"
Really? Good luck with that.
The subject is ATC Fees at Air Shows. It really should be: "Usage
Charges of any type to General Aviation". Oshkosh was just the opening
shot. More is sure to follow. I can't imagine why any General Aviation
pilot or aircraft owner would think that this kind of thing makes sense
and would support it in any way, shape, or form, PARTICULARLY when the
EAA was involved, which is an organization that does nothing but support
the folks on the Yak-List.
--
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