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Light Frame Rust

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Larlaeb

Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 75
Location: League City, Texas United States

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:07 am Post subject: Light Frame Rust

Hi All,

I have some places on the frame where some rust stain is showing through the paint.  The paint in most areas isn't chipping off and this looks almost like a stain on the paint.  See attached picture.  I'm curious about the best way to deal with this.  I'd obviously like to avoid any radical stripping until I'm ready to replace the fabric which is still in good shape.  



Locally I've been told everything from a light sanding and repaint with a rust resistant paint to treating it with a 'rust converter' and then repaint with an epoxy based paint.  If this has been discussed before I can do a more through search of the list.



Thanks,

Allan



Kolb MKIII

50 Hours

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Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:07 am Post subject: Light Frame Rust

Allen,



  From what I understand, the proper way to deal with "light" rust corrosion is with a quality

rust converter.  There are many brands available.  



See:  



http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/MetalCoatings/rust-converter.htm



  I have seen A&P's use them at annual inspections on rust spots exactly like yours.  The

stuff works extremely well.



Mike Welch



On Aug 22, 2013, at 10:07 AM, Larlaeb <larlaeb(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi All,

 I have some places on the frame where a some rust stain is showing through the paint.  The paint isn't chipping off and this looks almost like a stain on the paint.  See attached picture.  I'm curious about the best way to deal with this.  I'd obviously like to avoid any radical stripping until I'm ready to replace the fabric which is still in good shape.  

 

 Locally I've been told everything from a light sanding and repaint with a rust resistant paint to treating it with a 'rust converter' and then repaint with an epoxy based paint.  If this has been discussed before I can do a more through search of the list.

 

 Thanks,

 Allan

 

 Kolb MKIII

 50 Hours

racerjerry

Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Light Frame Rust

CURIOUS - Is this rust underneath EPOXY primer?

_________________
Jerry King

Larlaeb

Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 75
Location: League City, Texas United States

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:55 am Post subject: Re: Light Frame Rust

My understanding is it was powder coated then primed and painted but I don't know what kind of paint. (Not my build).  I'm trying to find out though.

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: Light Frame Rust

If it was powder coated it is unlikely that it would be painted, too. Powder coating steel typically involves a phosphoric acid cleaning, the powder is applied by electrostatic deposition and then baked to fuse the powder into a continuous plastic coating. Therein lies the problem, once the coating is pierced in any way, or if the phosphoric acid dip is eliminated or too long a time passes between the dip and the coating operation corrosion is sealed under the coating and the staining shown in your pictures results. 

 Up to you as to how you repair it but AC 43-13 1b is a good place to start.



Rick Girard





On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Larlaeb <larlaeb(at)gmail.com (larlaeb(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larlaeb" <larlaeb(at)gmail.com (larlaeb(at)gmail.com)>

  

 My understanding is it was powder coated then primed and painted but I don't know what kind of paint. (Not my build).  I'm trying to find out though.

 

 

 

 

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-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

Rick Lewis

Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Location: Kingston, Tn.

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Light Frame Rust

I have seen a few spots of rusts also at the weld joints on my powder coated cage, I mean crap what do I do now.  I was told the tubes were oil filled to prevent corrosion, at least that's what Donnie told me before I bought my kit... Donnie's gone now from Kolb.....

_________________
Rick Lewis

(VW Watercooled Engine)

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:53 pm Post subject: Light Frame Rust

On 08/24/2013 04:25 PM, Rick Lewis wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have seen a few spots of rusts also at the weld joints on my powder coated cage, I mean crap what do I do now.  I was told the tubes were oil filled to prevent corrosion, at least that's what Donnie told me before I bought my kit... Donnie's gone now from Kolb.....



 --------

 Rick Lewis



 (VW Watercooled Engine)



If the rust has made it through to the powder coat from inside the tube, 
	


you've got more  serious issues than what paint to use. 



The acro guys treat the interior of the tubes with linseed oil, weld the 

entire structure shut, & weld in an inflation valve & air gauge. If the 

gauge drops to nothing, they know that the fuselage has cracked somewhere.



Charlie

beauford173(at)tampabay.r
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 2:17 pm Post subject: Light Frame Rust

Brother Lewis:



To the best of my limited knowledge, there is only one way to tell whether

the tubes in your cage are filled with oil, or not.  Each discrete tube

segment of your cage

would have a sealing rivet plugging the drilled hole where someone injected

the Tube Seal, linseed oil, or whatever.  There is no other method I know of

to get oil inside the cage tubes...   As far as I know, no drilled holes, no

plug rivets, no oil inside.  Houdini remains dead.



If this is not accurate, I am sure some of our fellow Kolbers will set me

straight... sans delay...  



Worth what ye paid fer it...



Riveted, soggy, beauford

FF-076

Brandon, FL

"...please, more rain, Drill Sergeant..."



----------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------



--

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:38 pm Post subject: Light Frame Rust

To the best of my limited knowledge, there is only one way

to tell whether the tubes in your cage are filled with oil,

or not.  Each discrete tube segment of your cage would have

a sealing rivet plugging the drilled hole where someone

injected the Tube Seal, linseed oil, or whatever.  There is

no other method I know of

to get oil inside the cage tubes...   As far as I know, no

drilled holes, no

plug rivets, no oil inside.  Houdini remains dead.



If this is not accurate, I am sure some of our fellow

Kolbers will set me straight... sans delay...  



Worth what ye paid fer it...



Riveted, soggy, beauford

FF-076

Brandon, FL

"...please, more rain, Drill Sergeant..."



 

Beauford T/Kolbers:



Having had the opportunity of inspecting several Kolb

airframes that were not tube sealed, prior to completion of

my first Kolb, an Ultrastar, in 1984, I decided to by a

quart of Ray Stitt's Tube Seal and pickup a hypodermic

needle and syringe from my local veterinarian.  All three of

my Kolbs have been tube sealed.  1/8" holes were sealed with

sealed end pop rivets.



BTW, there was considerable rust inside most of the 4130

tubes in both airframes we cut up.



Still have some tube seal left after treating three

airframes.



Almost impossible to make a perfectly sealed weld joint on

an airframe.  If there is a pin hole or a crack, the tube

seal will work its way out and seal the problem.  There will

also be a tell tale black sign where the problem is.



My airframe is nearly 23 years old and has more than 3,200

flight hours on it.  No cracks, but have had a pin hole or

two in the welds.



john h

mkIII

Butte, MT

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:50 pm Post subject: Light Frame Rust

Almost impossible to make a perfectly sealed weld joint on

an airframe.  If there is a pin hole or a crack, the tube

seal will work its way out and seal the problem.  There will

also be a tell tale black sign where the problem is.

Gang:



Should have proof read this one before I hit the send

button.



Forget the paragraph above.  Should have read:



"Tube seal will indicate a pin hole and/or a crack. It will

seal a pin hole, but not a crack.  There will be a tell tale

black residue to indicate there is a problem."



Thanks,



john h

mkIII

Butte, MT

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Ducati SS

Joined: 15 Oct 2009
Posts: 93

Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Light Frame Rust

After seeing a Firestar cage with the lower rear tubes rusted thru I decided to drill all the lower tubes in my Firefly and treat them with Corrosion X. When I inserted the aerosol tube in the 3/32 hole and pressurized the 2 lower rear tubes I could hear pressure escaping out the rear of the tube. The area that is flattened for the boom thru bolt is not sealed and I would think that any Kolb washed or exposed to rain would slowly take on water in the lower rear tubes.

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