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life of the Odyssey
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dlm34077



Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 115
Location: AZ
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:07 pm    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
I have 2 680s running in parallel. they have started my 10 since 4/2008 (700+TT) and show no signs of failing to accept a charge or cranking the engine. How long should these be expected to work? Will they fail in a way that allows me to get back home to the hangar where I have two new 680s waiting? I am off to the Reno Races soon.

N46007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
I was at Aircraft Spruce customer day last year and spoke with the head engineer at Odyssey. He told me if I used the “correct” tricklecharger that the battery would last a good 10 years as a minimum.

From: DLM (dlm34077(at)cox.net)
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 7:06 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: life of the Odyssey


I have 2 680s running in parallel. they have started my 10 since 4/2008 (700+TT) and show no signs of failing to accept a charge or cranking the engine. How long should these be expected to work? Will they fail in a way that allows me to get back home to the hangar where I have two new 680s waiting? I am off to the Reno Races soon.

N46007
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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:12 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
Pascal,

Did they give you the correct charger make an model?
Do not archive

On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:05 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)live.com (rv10flyer(at)live.com)> wrote:
[quote] I was at Aircraft Spruce customer day last year and spoke with the head engineer at Odyssey. He told me if I used the correct tricklecharger that the battery would last a good 10 years as a minimum.

From: DLM (dlm34077(at)cox.net)
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 7:06 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: life of the Odyssey


I have 2 680s running in parallel. they have started my 10 since 4/2008 (700+TT) and show no signs of failing to accept a charge or cranking the engine. How long should these be expected to work? Will they fail in a way that allows me to get back home to the hangar where I have two new 680s waiting? I am off to the Reno Races soon.

N46007
Quote:


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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
Years ago I pulled a four year old PC-625 out of my RV-8A as normal preventative maintenance (replace one of the two batteries every two years). It has been running just fine as my tractor battery for the last 6 years. No trickle charger ever used.

I chose not to have any one battery more than four years old not as insurance for engine start, but as insurance to have adequate amp/hr capacity for loss of alternator, one of one or both of the master relays, or associated common cabling between the alternator and batteries. I have tested the endurance of the electrical system on just battery power and have demonstrated full IFR capability (less lights/strobes/pitot heat) for more than 2 hours, the design point I selected. I duplicated this power distribution design (and a new battery every other year) in the RV-10 also using PC-625 batteries.

Carl

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 5:12 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: life of the Odyssey

Pascal,


Did they give you the correct charger make an model?



Do not archive




On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:05 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)live.com (rv10flyer(at)live.com)> wrote:


I was at Aircraft Spruce customer day last year and spoke with the head engineer at Odyssey. He told me if I used the “correct” tricklecharger that the battery would last a good 10 years as a minimum.



From: DLM (dlm34077(at)cox.net)

Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 7:06 PM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: life of the Odyssey


I have 2 680s running in parallel. they have started my 10 since 4/2008 (700+TT) and show no signs of failing to accept a charge or cranking the engine. How long should these be expected to work? Will they fail in a way that allows me to get back home to the hangar where I have two new 680s waiting? I am off to the Reno Races soon.



N46007
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taildragon(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
Ditto Carl, I pull my Concordes out every four years and into my lawn tractors. They work just great, much better than the spec tractor battery!

Roger
N291RV

From: carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: life of the Odyssey
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2013 10:16:40 -0400
Years ago I pulled a four year old PC-625 out of my RV-8A as normal preventative maintenance (replace one of the two batteries every two years).  It has been running just fine as my tractor battery for the last 6 years.  No trickle charger ever used.
 
I chose not to have any one battery more than four years old not as insurance for engine start, but as insurance to have adequate amp/hr capacity for loss of alternator, one of one or both of the master relays, or associated common cabling between the alternator and batteries.  I have tested the endurance of the electrical system on just battery power and have demonstrated full IFR capability (less lights/strobes/pitot heat) for more than 2 hours, the design point I selected.  I duplicated this power distribution design (and a new battery every other year) in the RV-10 also using PC-625 batteries. 
 
Carl
 
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 5:12 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: life of the Odyssey
 
Pascal,
 

Did they give you the correct charger make an model?

 

Do not archive

 

 
On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:05 PM, Pascal <[url=mailto:rv10flyer(at)live.com]rv10flyer(at)live.com[/url]> wrote:


I was at Aircraft Spruce customer day last year and spoke with the head engineer at Odyssey. He told me if I used the correct tricklecharger that the battery would last a good 10 years as a minimum.

 

From: [url=mailto:dlm34077(at)cox.net]DLM[/url]

Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 7:06 PM

To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com[/url]

Subject: RV10-List: life of the Odyssey

 
I have 2 680s running in parallel. they have started my 10 since 4/2008 (700+TT) and show no signs of failing to accept a charge or cranking the engine. How long should these be expected to work? Will they fail in a way that allows me to get back home to the hangar where I have two new 680s waiting? I am off to the Reno Races soon.

 

N46007
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deej(at)deej.net
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:55 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
On 9/9/2013 11:05 PM, Pascal wrote:

Quote:
I was at Aircraft Spruce customer day last year and spoke with the head engineer at Odyssey. He told me if I used the “correct” tricklecharger that the battery would last a good 10 years as a minimum.





    That makes no sense to me.  Did he also say you had to use a "special" alternator to use these batteries in an airplane?

-Dj

[quote]--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

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partner14



Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
I also have 2 680's, and I also agree with Pascal.... putting it on a battery minder every month or so, or when not flying for a period, also helps. Flying since 6-09 and have had no issues.... that being said, I bought one new 680 which I will probably install soon so that I will end up with one new and one older.... with the idea of replacing one about every 5 years.
Don Mc
Vetterman flyin was great.

From: DLM <dlm34077(at)cox.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 9, 2013 9:06 PM
Subject: life of the Odyssey


I have 2 680s running in parallel. they have started my 10 since 4/2008 (700+TT) and show no signs of failing to accept a charge or cranking the engine. How long should these be expected to work? Will they fail in a way that allows me to get back home to the hangar where I have two new 680s waiting? I am off to the Reno Races soon.

N46007
[quote]http://www.matronics.com/Naviga_blank" href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com</ rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contri===

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Don A. McDonald
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gengrumpy



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
I concur with his assessment.

I also have dual 680s and both are on a trickle charger designed for aircraft gel cell batteries by Battery Minder. I pulled my original ones at 6 years, just because, and use them in the hangar for misc power requirements. Both are still running sound and solid.
grumpy
do not archive

On Sep 9, 2013, at 10:05 PM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)live.com (rv10flyer(at)live.com)> wrote:
[quote] I was at Aircraft Spruce customer day last year and spoke with the head engineer at Odyssey. He told me if I used the correct tricklecharger that the battery would last a good 10 years as a minimum.

From: DLM (dlm34077(at)cox.net)
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 7:06 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: life of the Odyssey


I have 2 680s running in parallel. they have started my 10 since 4/2008 (700+TT) and show no signs of failing to accept a charge or cranking the engine. How long should these be expected to work? Will they fail in a way that allows me to get back home to the hangar where I have two new 680s waiting? I am off to the Reno Races soon.

N46007
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partner14



Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:10 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
That's because there is a difference between a battery tender and a battery minder.


From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: life of the Odyssey


On 9/9/2013 11:05 PM, Pascal wrote:

Quote:
I was at Aircraft Spruce customer day last year and spoke with the head engineer at Odyssey. He told me if I used the “correct” tricklecharger that the battery would last a good 10 years as a minimum.





That makes no sense to me. Did he also say you had to use a "special" alternator to use these batteries in an airplane?

-Dj

[quote]--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

http://www.matronics.c==================

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Don A. McDonald
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
Indeed there is.  I ruined 2  PC-680s using the 'wrong' trickle charger.  A "Battery Tender" brand charger as I recall. 

The problem, as I recall, is that certain older types of 'trickle' chargers are unable to fully charge a somewhat discharged AGM (Odyssey type) battery.   If you attempt to use your battery on the  bench and then put it on that type of trickle charger as I did, you will quickly or slowly kill it.

The 'smarter' trickle chargers such as I presume the Batter Minder is, will work okay I guess.

My solution has been to use a 10 amp smart charger from Walmart for all charging of any and all 12 volt batteries.  It has settings for 3 types including AGM batteries.  I charges at a high rate then goes into trickle mode once fully charged.   It costs <$40.  I've considered keeping a 2nd one for convenience.  Don't operate it outside in the rain.

Bill "with all his 12 volt batteries in tip top shape" Watson

On 9/10/2013 12:10 PM, Don McDonald wrote:

[quote] That's because there is a difference between a battery tender and a battery minder.




From: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> (deej(at)deej.net)
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2013 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: life of the Odyssey


On 9/9/2013 11:05 PM, Pascal wrote:

Quote:
I was at Aircraft Spruce customer day last year and spoke with the head engineer at Odyssey. He told me if I used the “correct” tricklecharger that the battery would last a good 10 years as a minimum.





    That makes no sense to me.  Did he also say you had to use a "special" alternator to use these batteries in an airplane?

-Dj

Quote:
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87
Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

http://www.matronics.c==================



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Bob Turner



Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
I am on my second PC-925 (I think that is the model) and am slightly unhappy. Both batteries seem to have lost about 20% of their capacity. e.g., if I turn on the landing lights, within a few seconds the voltage drops to 12.4 volts. After that, the voltage drop with time is normal. It is as if I lost the top 20% of capacity. Yes, I bought and use the charger recommended and sold by Odyssey.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
Bob, when possible can the model trickle-charger be identified so the discussion can morph to "The most effective" make & model?
John 40600 On Sep 10, 2013 12:29 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

I am on my second PC-925 (I think that is the model) and am slightly unhappy. Both batteries seem to have lost about 20% of their capacity. e.g., if I turn on the landing lights, within a few seconds the voltage drops to 12.4 volts. After that, the voltage drop with time is normal. It is as if I lost the top 20% of capacity. Yes, I bought and use the charger recommended and sold by Odyssey.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
My charger is the Odyssey OMAX-12A, recommended for the PC-925.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:17 pm    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
Measuring battery capacity by voltage is only valid if there is no load on
the battery. See page 4 of the link:
http://www.odysseybattery.com/documents/US-ODY-OM-011_0213.pdf

The other value of using Odyssey batteries is the exceptionally long shelf
life. In most practical applications this eliminates any need for trickle
charging. If you discharge the battery running the panel or such with no
engine, then any standard charger for a short period of time will bring up
the charge. I never leave a charger on the batteries.

If you beat an Odyssey battery into the ground by leaving a master on for
several days the battery is gone - replace it. You might breathe some life
into it with a charger but the capacity is gone. Use it in a tractor or as
a bench battery. You want the real deal in your airplane.

Carl

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:55 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
I'm sure this isn't news to many here, but there is a lot of discussion on batts and chargers in the Aeroelectric list archive. Plenty of data points and model numbers. Try a search using "Odyssey & charger".


On 9/10/2013 3:55 PM, John Cox wrote:

[quote]
Bob, when possible can the model trickle-charger be identified so the discussion can morph to "The most effective" make & model?
John 40600 On Sep 10, 2013 12:29 PM, "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>

I am on my second PC-925 (I think that is the model) and am slightly unhappy. Both batteries seem to have lost about 20% of their capacity. e.g., if I turn on the landing lights, within a few seconds the voltage drops to 12.4 volts. After that, the voltage drop with time is normal. It is as if I lost the top 20% of capacity. Yes, I bought and use the charger recommended and sold by Odyssey.

--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB




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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
On 09/10/2013 02:38 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
Quote:
Indeed there is. I ruined 2 PC-680s using the 'wrong' trickle
charger. A "Battery Tender" brand charger as I recall.


So here is my confusion. Say that you use the "correct" type of charger
to fully charge the battery, then you install the battery in the plane
and go fly a 5 hour cross country. Since you do not have a "special"
alternator, is it going to ruin the battery?

What is the fundamental difference in the way that the alternator
charges, versus the Battery Tender, versus the Battery Minder?

-Dj
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
The different battery constructions .... flooded, AGM, gel, ..... have
different charge profiles for optimum life and capacity. There is so
much info out there on the care and feeding of batteries that you won't
find the time to read it all.

The dilemma in flying Vs. trickle charge is simple .... the flying is
only for a few hours at a time (typically) while the trickle chargers
are hooked up for days, weeks, or months. The cheaper chargers really
don't have any 'smarts' to control the charging curve and the charger
will force-feed the battery whether it needs it or not. The voltages at
rest, after being fully charged, vary amongst the different construction
technologies and so the 'one size fits all' charger doesn't work. My
charger has selectable battery types and is also a desulfator. I move
it around my various batteries to keep them happy. My last battery (not
an Odyssey) in the Traumahawk was 8 years old when I replaced it so I
think I may be doing something right. I haven't decided on the battery
for my -10 yet but I will probably lean toward a sealed gel type.
Linn
On 9/11/2013 11:26 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
Quote:


On 09/10/2013 02:38 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
> Indeed there is. I ruined 2 PC-680s using the 'wrong' trickle
> charger. A "Battery Tender" brand charger as I recall.

So here is my confusion. Say that you use the "correct" type of charger
to fully charge the battery, then you install the battery in the plane
and go fly a 5 hour cross country. Since you do not have a "special"
alternator, is it going to ruin the battery?

What is the fundamental difference in the way that the alternator
charges, versus the Battery Tender, versus the Battery Minder?

-Dj


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
I'm no expert but I think you have the trickle vs flying thing right.

I understand the other problem with some trickle chargers (e.g. my old
'Battery Tender') is that they are unable to bring a discharged AGM
battery back to a fully charged state. I guess the charging level is
set such that it won't ruin a battery if hooked up forever. (sorry if I
repeated myself here)

Check out Aeroelectric for more details, numbers, graphs, etc. Bob
Nuckolls experience with the Schumacher line of chargers (Walmart) is
what led me there and it's working well with my collection of AGM and
lead acid batteries. It has a gel setting too.
On 9/11/2013 12:07 PM, Linn Walters wrote:
Quote:


The different battery constructions .... flooded, AGM, gel, ..... have
different charge profiles for optimum life and capacity. There is so
much info out there on the care and feeding of batteries that you
won't find the time to read it all.

The dilemma in flying Vs. trickle charge is simple .... the flying is
only for a few hours at a time (typically) while the trickle chargers
are hooked up for days, weeks, or months. The cheaper chargers really
don't have any 'smarts' to control the charging curve and the charger
will force-feed the battery whether it needs it or not. The voltages
at rest, after being fully charged, vary amongst the different
construction technologies and so the 'one size fits all' charger
doesn't work. My charger has selectable battery types and is also a
desulfator. I move it around my various batteries to keep them
happy. My last battery (not an Odyssey) in the Traumahawk was 8 years
old when I replaced it so I think I may be doing something right. I
haven't decided on the battery for my -10 yet but I will probably lean
toward a sealed gel type.
Linn
On 9/11/2013 11:26 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:
>
>
> On 09/10/2013 02:38 PM, Bill Watson wrote:
>> Indeed there is. I ruined 2 PC-680s using the 'wrong' trickle
>> charger. A "Battery Tender" brand charger as I recall.
>
> So here is my confusion. Say that you use the "correct" type of charger
> to fully charge the battery, then you install the battery in the plane
> and go fly a 5 hour cross country. Since you do not have a "special"
> alternator, is it going to ruin the battery?
>
> What is the fundamental difference in the way that the alternator
> charges, versus the Battery Tender, versus the Battery Minder?
>
> -Dj



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bill.peyton



Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Posts: 198
Location: St. Louis, MO
PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:19 pm    Post subject: Re: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
As I have posted before.
A while ago, I spoke with the Odyssey engineer regarding the proper charge voltage during operational usage. The Odyssey batteries like to see a minimum of 14.2 and ideally around 14.5 volts. Most aircraft regulators are set somewhere between 13.8-14.2. I suspect that a lot of the premature failures are caused by improper operational charge voltage, as well as the improper battery charger for this type of battery. The Odyssey charger starts its charge cycle at around 14.7+ volts, depending how dead the battery is. (see below graph) Some brands of external regulators are adjustable and could be set higher. In the case of the Plane Power internally regulated alternators, it's a little more difficult. The only way to increase the output voltage of the Alternator is to create a voltage drop, such as a diode, in the field line. In the PP case, the field line is used as the voltage "sense" input.
Most all modern avionics are capable of regulating down from 30+ volts. Older avionics maximum operational voltage should be verified prior to increasing your bus voltage.
My Plane Power 60A alternator sits at 14.5 volts during normal flight. I have 185 hours on the battery and just about 1 year. I guess we will see what happens, but so far so good.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: life of the Odyssey Reply with quote
How did you mount the two 680s...just looking at dimentions, I don't thinbk they will sit side by side in the stock battery tray.

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