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Fuse for strobes

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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:22 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds. 



Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would they?



Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures. 



The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker. 



Unless someone out there knows something I don't. 



Gary

Sent from my iPad

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:40 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

Depending on which strobes you installed, the current draw could be 8A 

... or more just for the strobes.  I have no clue what the fuel pump 

draws ..... but I'll bet Garner knows for sure.  I'm guessing it's a 

couple A or more.

Linn

On 9/27/2013 5:15 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds.



 Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would they?



 Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures.



 The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker.



 Unless someone out there knows something I don't.



 Gary

 Sent from my iPad

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 2:26 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

These are the same Aeroflash strobes that 'supposedly' came with the plane. I got them from Garner. 



Gary

Sent from my iPad



On Sep 27, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Depending on which strobes you installed, the current draw could be 8A .... or more just for the strobes.  I have no clue what the fuel pump draws ..... but I'll bet Garner knows for sure.  I'm guessing it's a couple A or more.

 Linn

 

 

 On 9/27/2013 5:15 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:

> 

> 

> A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds.

> 

> Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would they?

> 

> Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures.

> 

> The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker.

> 

> Unless someone out there knows something I don't.

> 

> Gary

> Sent from my iPad

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> -----

> No virus found in this message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> 

>

tigerized(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:04 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

The newly TSO'd Aveo Ultra Galactica wingtip lights (nav & strobe) draw very little current, eliminate the power supplies, are incredibly bright. Why not make a real improvement while you're at it?



Rick Lindstrom

Aveo Engineering Southwest



AA1C, AA5B owner.



Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 27, 2013, at 2:15 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds. 

 

 Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would they?

 

 Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures. 

 

 The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker. 

 

 Unless someone out there knows something I don't. 

 

 Gary

 Sent from my iPad

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

Gary:

 I do not have the Cheetah Manual in front of me but, in the POH for the Traveler four (4) items are tied to the same 5 Amp Circuit Breaker - Fuel Pump, Hobbs Meter, Strobe and Starter.  I personally think that is too many things to a 5 Amp CB.  The POH also says turn OFF the Strobes and Fuel Pump when starting.  That sure sounds like a bit of backpedaling after the schematics were drawn and plane submitted to the FAA for final review, I guess the easiest thing to do was rewrite a few lines in the POH so as to reduce the current load on a 5 Amp CB.

 



I would do as you surmise - Add a separate CB for the Strobes.  But, before doing that check two more things:

 1 - What is the current draw for today's AeroFlash Strobes.  Maybe the current draw is higher because of higher output of the strobe.  

 AND - Just for testing:  Separate the Strobe lines. Put a inline fuse of double the rated strobe current draw - You did say a 10 Amp fuse worked.  The only issue with the fuse or CB size is the size of the supply wires.  A CB or a fuse only protects the feed wire not the item on the end of the wire.  So, if the wire can handle say 12 Amps a 10 Amp CB is acceptable.

 



2 - Since all seams fine for the Ground Check and the In-flight Check.  Maybe the problem is related to vibration and either a Poor Ground causing higher current draw or a wire shorting out with the vibration of the landing.

 



These are the simple things to check.  Of course if the original wiring has dried and cracked that will be harder to trace down.

 



Oh, as you stated, if they are the original strobes how old is original?  As the charge capacitor for the flash tube gets old they dry out and the current draw goes up.  How much I do not know, but, it could take it beyond the rated levels.

 



Barry

  



On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds.

  

 Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would they?

 

 Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures.

 

 The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker.

 

 Unless someone out there knows something I don't.

 

 Gary

 Sent from my iPad

 

 ===========

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

I didn't think they used as much current as the true flashtubes, but I 

may be wrong ...... I guess you'll have to measure the currents to see 

what's up.  Also, there may be more stuff hooked to that fuse than the 

aeroflash and boost pump.  Stuff gets added along the way.

Linn



On 9/27/2013 6:20 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 These are the same Aeroflash strobes that 'supposedly' came with the plane. I got them from Garner.



 Gary

 Sent from my iPad



 On Sep 27, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> wrote:



> 

>

> Depending on which strobes you installed, the current draw could be 8A .... or more just for the strobes.  I have no clue what the fuel pump draws ..... but I'll bet Garner knows for sure.  I'm guessing it's a couple A or more.

> Linn

> On 9/27/2013 5:15 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:

>> 

>>

>> A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds.

>>

>> Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would they?

>>

>> Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures.

>>

>> The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker.

>>

>> Unless someone out there knows something I don't.

>>

>> Gary

>> Sent from my iPad

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> -----

>> No virus found in this message.

>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>>

>>

>

>

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

n32romeo(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

According to the Aeroflash website, the factory ones for our planes draw 1.8amps at 12 volts per side.  So 3.6amps for the set.  

  http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_wing_tip.php

  When I installed them some 15 years ago I used the spare fuse location (which when I pulled off the factory sticker that said "Spare", was labeled "Strobe" underneath).  They are by themselves with a 5amp fuse and I never had any problems, till a power supply died this year.

  Rich Harrison

  '76 AA-1B

  

  

  --

n32romeo(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 9:16 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

Whoops, I mistaken this with the  the switch location.  Looking at a  picture of my panel the fuse is shared with the fuel pump.  Still, no issues since I installed the strobes.

  Rich

  

  

  --

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:02 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

http://www.aveoengineering.com/index.php/photo-gallery-ultra-galactica

Based on its size (I don't think it will fit under the nav lens) and the fact that the strobe faces backward, and that it costs twice as much as the other strobes, it isn't likely I could sell many. 



Gary

Sent from my iPad



On Sep 27, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Rick Lindstrom <tigerized(at)gmail.com (tigerized(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Rick Lindstrom <tigerized(at)gmail.com (tigerized(at)gmail.com)>



The newly TSO'd Aveo Ultra Galactica wingtip lights (nav & strobe) draw very little current, eliminate the power supplies, are incredibly bright. Why not make a real improvement while you're at it?



Rick Lindstrom

Aveo Engineering Southwest



AA1C, AA5B owner.



Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 27, 2013, at 2:15 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>



A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds. 



Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would they?



Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures. 



The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker. 



Unless someone out there knows something I don't. 



Gary

Sent from my iPad





	


http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List



http://www.matro=================================================

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:03 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

Extra stuff added to the only planes I've had fuses blow?  Not likely. 



Gary

Sent from my iPad



On Sep 27, 2013, at 6:07 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I didn't think they used as much current as the true flashtubes, but I may be wrong ...... I guess you'll have to measure the currents to see what's up.  Also, there may be more stuff hooked to that fuse than the aeroflash and boost pump.  Stuff gets added along the way.

 Linn

 

 On 9/27/2013 6:20 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:

> 

> 

> These are the same Aeroflash strobes that 'supposedly' came with the plane. I got them from Garner.

> 

> Gary

> Sent from my iPad

> 

> On Sep 27, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Linn Walters <flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com> wrote:

> 

>> 

>> 

>> Depending on which strobes you installed, the current draw could be 8A .... or more just for the strobes.  I have no clue what the fuel pump draws ..... but I'll bet Garner knows for sure.  I'm guessing it's a couple A or more.

>> Linn

>> 

>> 

>> On 9/27/2013 5:15 PM, Gary L Vogt wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds.

>>> 

>>> Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would they?

>>> 

>>> Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures.

>>> 

>>> The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker.

>>> 

>>> Unless someone out there knows something I don't.

>>> 

>>> Gary

>>> Sent from my iPad

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> -----

>>> No virus found in this message.

>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> -----

> No virus found in this message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:05 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

In an AA5x series, the strobes, fuel pump and starter are on the same 5amp fuse. Look at my wiring diagram on my web site, click on Technical stuff. 



Gary

Sent from my iPad



On Sep 27, 2013, at 7:02 PM, n32romeo(at)AOL.COM (n32romeo(at)AOL.COM) wrote:

[quote] According to the Aeroflash website, the factory ones for our planes draw 1.8amps at 12 volts per side.  So 3.6amps for the set.  

  http://www.aeroflash.com/aeroflash_wing_tip.php

  When I installed them some 15 years ago I used the spare fuse location (which when I pulled off the factory sticker that said "Spare", was labeled "Strobe" underneath).  They are by themselves with a 5amp fuse and I never had any problems, till a power supply died this year.

  Rich Harrison

  '76 AA-1B

  

  

  --

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:15 pm Post subject: Fuse for strobes

They are new strobe kits from Fletchair.  The blown fuse only seems to happen during the landing phase. Even when leaving the fuel pump on for the whole flight. Too much vibration on two different planes with the same kits?  Not likely. 

My guess is the new strobes draw more current. How much?  I'll have find out. It's 20AWG wire from the fuse to where it separates for each wing/strobe. Then 20AWG wire to each wing tip. 



Gary

Sent from my iPad



On Sep 27, 2013, at 6:06 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Gary:

 I do not have the Cheetah Manual in front of me but, in the POH for the Traveler four (4) items are tied to the same 5 Amp Circuit Breaker - Fuel Pump, Hobbs Meter, Strobe and Starter.  I personally think that is too many things to a 5 Amp CB.  The POH also says turn OFF the Strobes and Fuel Pump when starting.  That sure sounds like a bit of backpedaling after the schematics were drawn and plane submitted to the FAA for final review, I guess the easiest thing to do was rewrite a few lines in the POH so as to reduce the current load on a 5 Amp CB.

 



I would do as you surmise - Add a separate CB for the Strobes.  But, before doing that check two more things:

 1 - What is the current draw for today's AeroFlash Strobes.  Maybe the current draw is higher because of higher output of the strobe.  

 AND - Just for testing:  Separate the Strobe lines. Put a inline fuse of double the rated strobe current draw - You did say a 10 Amp fuse worked.  The only issue with the fuse or CB size is the size of the supply wires.  A CB or a fuse only protects the feed wire not the item on the end of the wire.  So, if the wire can handle say 12 Amps a 10 Amp CB is acceptable.

 



2 - Since all seams fine for the Ground Check and the In-flight Check.  Maybe the problem is related to vibration and either a Poor Ground causing higher current draw or a wire shorting out with the vibration of the landing.

 



These are the simple things to check.  Of course if the original wiring has dried and cracked that will be harder to trace down.

 



Oh, as you stated, if they are the original strobes how old is original?  As the charge capacitor for the flash tube gets old they dry out and the current draw goes up.  How much I do not know, but, it could take it beyond the rated levels.

 



Barry

  



On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 5:15 PM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds.

  

 Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would they?

 

 Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures.

 

 The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker.

 

 Unless someone out there knows something I don't.

 

 Gary

 Sent from my iPad

 

 ===========

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 



===================================

t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List

===================================

cs.com

===================================

matronics.com/contribution

===================================



	


[b]

n76lima(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:51 am Post subject: Fuse for strobes

 	  Quote: 	
		  A few months ago I installed Aeroflash strobes on a 79 Cheetah. Worked fine on the ground. Worked fined in flight right up >until landing. When the fuel pump was turned on, the fuse blew. Duplicated the problem twice. Installed a 6amp fuse. Same >thing. Installed an 8amp fuse. Same thing. Installed a 10amp and it holds. 


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Possible scenario is that the fuel pump draws too much current. New strobes would not be drawing too much current?  Would >they?


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Last week I installed the same strobe kit on a 77 Tiger. Same exact fuse failures. 

The only real solution is to move the strobes to their own fuse/circuit breaker. 

Unless someone out there knows something I don't. 

Gary

Sent from my iPad


	


Sure sounds like they have changed the strobe power requirements.  How unlikely is it that 2 planes would have the same high current fuel pump problem?  Given that the fuel pump is an interrupter design, it only draws current for an instant when the points make contact and the electromagnet is energized.  The rest of the time the points are open and the spring is pulling the plunger to push the fuel.  And as the pumps age, the points burn and pit, eventually drawing LESS AND LESS current, due to the resistance of the contact points rising.



I'd try the strobe power supplies individually with a small ammeter to get a reading on the actual current draw.



Alternatively, see if you can get a "slo-blo" fuse, since the pump requires only pulses of electricity.  Could also change to a CB, which takes longer to trip than the fuse blowing.



But I'm leaning toward strobe power supply (just one drawing too much is all it takes) causing the problem.



--Bob Steward

Birmingham, AL

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