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Landing on one wheel

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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:15 am Post subject: Landing on one wheel

Hello guys,

My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two years, need an instructor check-up to keep his license. I asked the instructor what my son needed to train for before the check-up.



He answered: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then landing on 3 points, 2 points and one wheel."



"One wheel?" Yes, it is necessary if landing in crosswind, doing a side slip.



Okay, I do a lot of side slips, to get the right speed on final since I never use my flaperons. But, touching the ground side slipping and on one wheel is ... awkward when the wind is not from the side!



But he insists that we do that, as a training. Okay, I tried a couple of times but when landing with a head wind, side slipping on one wheel, there is a lateral pull on the wheel and I don't like it!



I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel pipes and I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I could try to do it when there is a real side wind so that I actually compensate the wind drift with the side displacement, which is the intention. But where I live, the prevailing winds are very much in the direction of the runway and I just can't match the very seldom crosswind with my son's training.



My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the original gear, landing on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway asphalt edge with his right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one the bungee is turned around, was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will I run a risk of it?



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:59 am Post subject: Landing on one wheel

Michel, sounds like you have a great instructor!



Here is one wheel landing   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7aBw90n9U  at 

just over  1 min into this video.



 	  Quote: 	
		  >> I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel 

>> pipes and I am afraid I might bend something<<<


	


Absolute nonsense........... that old fashion gear is 4140  CrMo - Very 

strong gear -

When I read of these mishaps and the gear gets blamed -it might be the pilot 

thats should be for landing so hard they bend  the gear.

I have never bent one and I have had some very rough landing in very rough 

terrain. Mind you I do not land sideways or drop it in 30 feet from the 

ground.

Some of thes damages are hard to fathom...........



Keep up the good work and get your son flying.........



Cheers



Dave

---

_________________
Realtime Kitfox movies to separate the internet chatter from the truth
http://www.youtube.com/user/kitfoxflyer
Hundreds of Kitfox Movies
Most viewed Kitfox on youtube
Most popular on youtube
Highest rated on youtube

mikelaundy(at)yahoo.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:40 am Post subject: Landing on one wheel

Michael,

  

 I am with you on this one, when I learned to fly 50 years ago on Chipmunks as a trainee RAF pilot, we were taught  the"crab" technique for landing in a cross winds.  Later as an RAF flying instructor the "crab" crosswind landing technique was the one we taught our students on the Jet Provost.  I have used that technique ever since when flying  straight wing aircraft.  The only time I used side slipping for  crosswind  landings was when flying swept wing airliners (Boeing 767), as with them "kicking "off drift using a "crab"  tchnique can give an unacceptable rate of roll away from the crosswind, and  heavy aircraft are sluggish to react to control inputs at low speed due to their high inertia. They do of course  have multi wheel bogies to land on!

  

 In my opinion there are hazards with the Kitfox to land side slipping on one wheel.  Its too easy to get a high rate of descent in the slide slip and I find on my KF3 I run out of up elevator at slow speed,  the two combined could easily give a hard landing, and on one wheel that could break something.

  

 The strip I use is frequently out of wind and I sometimes have to land with crosswinds up to 15 mph.  In strong crosswinds I make my approach at 60mph  reducing to around 50mph in the flare and as I run out of up elevator and sense the aircraft starting to sink I give a qick burst of power to add a bit of slipstream effect over the rudder and elevators and kick the drift off with rudder, it works well for me!  

  

 Mike

 Kitfox 3 Rotax 582

 Cornwall UK

  

  

  [quote]    

From: Michel <michel(at)online.no>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2013, 2:15

Subject: Landing on one wheel



 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" <michel(at)online.no (michel(at)online.no)>



Hello guys,

My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two years, need an instructor check-up to keep his license. I asked the instructor what my son needed to train for before the check-up.



He answered: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then landing on 3 points, 2 points and one wheel."



"One wheel?" Yes, it is necessary if landing in crosswind, doing a side slip.



Okay, I do a lot of side slips, to get the right speed on final since I never use my flaperons. But, touching the ground side slipping and on one wheel is ... awkward when the wind is not from the side!



But he insists that we do that, as a training. Okay, I tried a couple of times but when landing with a head wind, side slipping on one wheel, there is a  lateral pull on the wheel and I don't like it!



I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel pipes and I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I could try to do it when there is a real side wind so that I actually compensate the wind drift with the side displacement, which is the intention. But where I live, the prevailing winds are very much in the direction of the runway and I just can't match the very seldom crosswind with my son's training.



My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the original gear, landing on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway asphalt edge with his right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one the bungee is turned around, was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will I run a risk of it?



Cheers,

Michel



--------

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409750#409750http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List



[b]

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:02 am Post subject: Landing on one wheel

Michel:  

I had a Kitfox II. I think the model III ldg gear is stronger. It was typical to have x-wind at my homebase. I used to made one wheel landings very often. No problem at all. As a matter of fact,  I would not do the crab and kick the rudder technique. 

Saludos!

JosÃ©



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 3, 2013, at 12:39 PM, Michael Laundy <mikelaundy(at)yahoo.co.uk (mikelaundy(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:

[quote]Michael,

  

 I am with you on this one, when I learned to fly 50 years ago on Chipmunks as a trainee RAF pilot, we were taught  the"crab" technique for landing in a cross winds.  Later as an RAF flying instructor the "crab" crosswind landing technique was the one we taught our students on the Jet Provost.  I have used that technique ever since when flying  straight wing aircraft.  The only time I used side slipping for  crosswind  landings was when flying swept wing airliners (Boeing 767), as with them "kicking "off drift using a "crab"  tchnique can give an unacceptable rate of roll away from the crosswind, and  heavy aircraft are sluggish to react to control inputs at low speed due to their high inertia. They do of course  have multi wheel bogies to land on!

  

 In my opinion there are hazards with the Kitfox to land side slipping on one wheel.  Its too easy to get a high rate of descent in the slide slip and I find on my KF3 I run out of up elevator at slow speed,  the two combined could easily give a hard landing, and on one wheel that could break something.

  

 The strip I use is frequently out of wind and I sometimes have to land with crosswinds up to 15 mph.  In strong crosswinds I make my approach at 60mph  reducing to around 50mph in the flare and as I run out of up elevator and sense the aircraft starting to sink I give a qick burst of power to add a bit of slipstream effect over the rudder and elevators and kick the drift off with rudder, it works well for me!  

  

 Mike

 Kitfox 3 Rotax 582

 Cornwall UK

  

  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

From: Michel <michel(at)online.no (michel(at)online.no)>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com) 

Sent: Thursday, 3 October 2013, 2:15

Subject: Landing on one wheel



 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" <michel(at)online.no (michel(at)online.no)>



Hello guys,

My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two years, need an instructor check-up to keep his license. I asked the instructor what my son needed to train for before the check-up.



He answered: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then landing on 3 points, 2 points and one wheel."



"One wheel?" Yes, it is necessary if landing in crosswind, doing a side slip.



Okay, I do a lot of side slips, to get the right speed on final since I never use my flaperons. But, touching the ground side slipping and on one wheel is ... awkward when the wind is not from the side!



But he insists that we do that, as a training. Okay, I tried a couple of times but when landing with a head wind, side slipping on one wheel, there is a  lateral pull on the wheel and I don't like it!



I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel pipes and I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I could try to do it when there is a real side wind so that I actually compensate the wind drift with the side displacement, which is the intention. But where I live, the prevailing winds are very much in the direction of the runway and I just can't match the very seldom crosswind with my son's training.



My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the original gear, landing on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway asphalt edge with his right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one the bungee is turned around, was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will I run a risk of it?



Cheers,

Michel



--------

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409750#409750http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List







D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

x-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Landing on one wheel

Thank you Dave, Mike and Jose, for your answers. Dave, I have seen your videos many times before!  But you land on grass and you are a lucky guy! My Kitfox hates asphalt. 



Dave and Jose, you seem to think that the original Kitfox gear is strong enough to take that side pull of the side slip landing on one wheel. That is reassuring.



Mike, you are unfortunate to have so much crosswind in Cornwall. But I also suppose you land on grass. Fifteen knots crosswind on asphalt and I weather-vane like nothing! For me, 12 knots is my maximum crosswind landing on asphalt. If there is more than that, I land on the crossing taxiway, something my airfield's supervisor said I could as long as the other traffics are well informed of my intentions! 



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:33 am Post subject: Landing on one wheel

Landing is something that brings great satisfaction as the skill is developed.  The procedure of landing on a single wheel is different from "landing in a crab configuration".  Land straight ahead with a slight wing low and slight rudder correction.  A two wheel, one main and tail, is common with any crosswind component; keeping the direction of travel straight ahead. I believe it is called in our training a forward slip. 

  

I hope this helps. 

  

John Kerr 



 

   

From: "Michel" <michel(at)online.no>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2013 3:15:13 AM

Subject: Landing on one wheel



--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" <michel(at)online.no>



Hello guys,

My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two years, need an instructor check-up to keep his license. I asked the instructor what my son needed to train for before the check-up.



He answered: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then landing on 3 points, 2 points and one wheel."



"One wheel?" Yes, it is necessary if landing in crosswind, doing a side slip.



Okay, I do a lot of side slips, to get the right speed on final since I never use my flaperons. But, touching the ground side slipping and on one wheel is ... awkward when the wind is not from the side!



But he insists that we do that, as a training. Okay, I tried a couple of times but when landing with a head wind, side slipping on one wheel, there is a lateral pull on the wheel and I don't like it!



I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel pipes and I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I could try to do it when there is a real side wind so that I actually compensate the wind drift with the side displacement, which is the intention. But where I live, the prevailing winds are very much in the direction of the runway and I just can't match the very seldom crosswind with my son's training.



My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the original gear, landing on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway asphalt edge with his right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one the bungee is turned around, was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will I run a risk of it?



Cheers,

Michel



--------

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewt=               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS======





 [quote][b]

kerrjohna(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: Landing on one wheel

Landing is something that brings great satisfaction as the skill is developed.  The procedure is different from "landing in a crab configuration".  Land straight ahead with a slight wing low and slight rudder correction.  A two wheel, one main and tail, is common with any crosswind component; keeping the direction of travel straight ahead.

  From: "Michel" <michel(at)online.no>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2013 3:15:13 AM

Subject: Landing on one wheel

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" <michel(at)online.no>

Hello guys,

My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two years, need an instructor check-up to keep his license. I asked the instructor what my son needed to train for before the check-up.

He answered: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then landing on 3 points, 2 points and one wheel."

"One wheel?" Yes, it is necessary if landing in crosswind, doing a side slip.

Okay, I do a lot of side slips, to get the right speed on final since I never use my flaperons. But, touching the ground side slipping and on one wheel is ... awkward when the wind is not from the side!

But he insists that we do that, as a training. Okay, I tried a couple of times but when landing with a head wind, side slipping on one wheel, there is a lateral pull on the wheel and I don't like it!

I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel pipes and I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I could try to do it when there is a real side wind so that I actually compensate the wind drift with the side displacement, which is the intention. But where I live, the prevailing winds are very much in the direction of the runway and I just can't match the very seldom crosswind with my son's training.

My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the original gear, landing on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway asphalt edge with his right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one the bungee is turned around, was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will I run a risk of it?

Cheers,

Michel

--------

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopi               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -<=====

 [quote][b]

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:05 am Post subject: Landing on one wheel

Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man, landing is the first...



Sent from my iPhone



On Oct 4, 2013, at 10:55 AM, kerrjohna(at)comcast.net (kerrjohna(at)comcast.net) wrote:

[quote]Landing is something that brings great satisfaction as the skill is developed.  The procedure is different from "landing in a crab configuration".  Land straight ahead with a slight wing low and slight rudder correction.  A two wheel, one main and tail, is common with any crosswind component; keeping the direction of travel straight ahead.



  From: "Michel" <michel(at)online.no (michel(at)online.no)>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2013 3:15:13 AM

Subject: Landing on one wheel



--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" <michel(at)online.no (michel(at)online.no)>



Hello guys,

My son, who has not been flying our Kitfox 3 for two years, need an instructor check-up to keep his license. I asked the instructor what my son needed to train for before the check-up.



He answered: "Climbing 500 ft in 360 degrees turn, then the opposite, then landing on 3 points, 2 points and one wheel."



"One wheel?" Yes, it is necessary if landing in crosswind, doing a side slip.



Okay, I do a lot of side slips, to get the right speed on final since I never use my flaperons. But, touching the ground side slipping and on one wheel is ... awkward when the wind is not from the side!



But he insists that we do that, as a training. Okay, I tried a couple of times but when landing with a head wind, side slipping on one wheel, there is a lateral pull on the wheel and I don't like it!



I don't like it because I still have the old fashion gear made of steel pipes and I am afraid I might bend something. Of course, I could try to do it when there is a real side wind so that I actually compensate the wind drift with the side displacement, which is the intention. But where I live, the prevailing winds are very much in the direction of the runway and I just can't match the very seldom crosswind with my son's training.



My question then is: Has any of you had problems with the original gear, landing on one wheel? I know of a Kitfox that has hit a taxiway asphalt edge with his right hand wheel and the tube under the seat, the one the bungee is turned around, was bended. I don't want to get the same! Will I run a risk of it?



Cheers,

Michel



--------

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopi               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -<=====



  	  Quote: 	
		  



D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

x-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

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ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Landing on one wheel

 	  jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com wrote: 	
		  Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man, landing is the first... 	




Â¡Estupendo, Jose! I think I'll have that written on my dashboard! 



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

mikelaundy(at)yahoo.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:41 pm Post subject: Landing on one wheel

If I can add to that a few thoughts from my airforce days:

  

 "Its better to be down here wishing you were up there, than up there wishing you were down here"

  

 The 3 useless things for a pilot-

  

 Altitude above you

 Runway behind you

 Fuel in the tanker

  

 There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots.

  

 Mike 

 (an old bald plot)

  

 Kitfox 3, Rotax 582

  

 Cornwall UK

 

  [quote]    

From: Michel <michel(at)online.no>

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Saturday, 5 October 2013, 10:48

Subject: Re: Landing on one wheel



 

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Michel" <michel(at)online.no (michel(at)online.no)>

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Flying is the second greatest thrill known to man, landing is the first...


	




Â¡Estupendo, Jose! I think I'll have that written on my dashboard! 



Cheers,

Michel



--------

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409923#409923



http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox--> http://forum            - List Contribution Web Site -



[b]

lkc(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:52 am Post subject: Landing on one wheel

The greatest thrill I've ever had is when my flight instructor took me up in my KF 5 to do what he called full power stalls.  We went full power while loosing 100-200 ft of altitude... then pulled back on the  stick... the stall came at just about vertical... which is when we went into a right spin, taking 3/4 of a rotation to correct.  I went home that day literally shaking with excitement.



--------

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