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MOD 78
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djaflyact

Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 27

Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:40 pm Post subject: MOD 78

Hello Europa Builders,

I've been off this list for a while, but here I am again. I've got the mono wheel motor glider with about 550 hours on it now. I believe mine was the first customer long wing to fly.



Now I am starting the infamous Mod 78. Has anyone successfully done this mod themselves yet? I have just started by pulling the wings and organizing the hangar in anticipation of the big job. The first thing I have noticed is the front pin and socket on the fuselage has significantly more play in it than the original socket. Was this socket replacement due to a structural considerations or just the make the rigging easier? It seems that socket location sets the angle if incidence and I would think there should be virtually no play there. The pin has a shoulder on it and I was thinking that the shoulder was what does the trick. It doesn't seem to, though.



On the other hand, I did see a couple small parts wrapped in the package, so possibly there is some part I am not considering. I have not seen any drawings or pictures of the new socket.



I hope this mod goes well. After getting all the angles and rigging set, its hard to tear that all apart again - especially after flying it for over 10 years now.



Thanks,



Dave Anderson

A227 - Motorglider (no short wings)

Alan Carter

Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:54 am Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Hi David.

Can't help you there, but as you mention wings and pins just a fact I have noticed, I have a little play fore and aft play if I wiggle very gently at the wing tips, don't know why, think? it was the starboard side mostly.

However I have felt the same amount of movement in about 35 out of 40 Europa's, also about the same amount of aircraft had some wear in the Stab hinge line so I assume this is quit normal , So I feel better about it now.

I am not sure if you are referring to this or something else.

Regards.

Alan

alan.twigg775(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:39 am Post subject: MOD 78

Dave, Nev has just completed 78 on my wings which I hope is the next customer Mono Motorglider to take to the air. New sockets came with the kit.

Watched your early inputs, kept me going especially after Europa went bust.

Alan Twigg

Kit 463 in UK

Fuselage prepping for paint, mod 78 in post cure,  ailerons and air brakes installing.



Sent from my iPhone



On 16 Oct 2013, at 07:40, "djaflyact" <djaflyact(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hello Europa Builders,

 I've been off this list for a while, but here I am again. I've got the mono wheel motor glider with about 550 hours on it now. I believe mine was the first customer long wing to fly.

 

 Now I am starting the infamous Mod 78. Has anyone successfully done this mod themselves yet? I have just started by pulling the wings and organizing the hangar in anticipation of the big job. The first thing I have noticed is the front pin and socket on the fuselage has significantly more play in it than the original socket. Was this socket replacement due to a structural considerations or just the make the rigging easier? It seems that socket location sets the angle if incidence and I would think there should be virtually no play there. The pin has a shoulder on it and I was thinking that the shoulder was what does the trick. It doesn't seem to, though.

 

 On the other hand, I did see a couple small parts wrapped in the package, so possibly there is some part I am not considering. I have not seen any drawings or pictures of the new socket.

 

 I hope this mod goes well. After getting all the angles and rigging set, its hard to tear that all apart again - especially after flying it for over 10 years now.

 

 Thanks,

 

 Dave Anderson

 A227 - Motorglider (no short wings)

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410680#410680

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:04 am Post subject: MOD 78

Good news Alan, look forward to you flying at last!

Graham

        From: "alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com" <alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com>

 To: "europa-list(at)matronics.com" <europa-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Wednesday, 16 October 2013, 11:37

 Subject: Re: MOD 78

--> Europa-List message posted by: alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com (alan.twigg775(at)gmail.com)

Dave, Nev has just completed 78 on my wings which I hope is the next customer Mono Motorglider to take to the air. New sockets came with the kit.

Watched your early inputs, kept me going especially after Europa went bust.

Alan Twigg

Kit 463 in UK

Fuselage prepping for paint, mod 78 in post cure,  ailerons and air brakes installing.

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Oct 2013, at 07:40, "djaflyact" <djaflyact(at)gmail.com (djaflyact(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: "djaflyact" <djaflyact(at)gmail.com (djaflyact(at)gmail.com)>

 Hello Europa Builders,

 I've been off this list for a while, but here I am again. I've got the mono wheel motor glider with  about 550 hours on it now. I believe mine was the first customer long wing to fly.

 Now I am starting the infamous Mod 78. Has anyone successfully done this mod themselves yet? I have just started by pulling the wings and organizing the hangar in anticipation of the big job. The first thing I have noticed is the front pin and socket on the fuselage has significantly more play in it than the original socket. Was this socket replacement due to a structural considerations or just the make the rigging easier? It seems that socket location sets the angle if incidence and I would think there should be virtually no play there. The pin has a shoulder on it and I was thinking that the shoulder was what does the trick. It doesn't seem to, though.

 On the other hand, I did see a couple small parts wrapped in the package, so possibly there is some part I am not considering. I have not seen any drawings or pictures of the new  socket.

 I hope this mod goes well. After getting all the angles and rigging set, its hard to tear that all apart again - especially after flying it for over 10 years now.

 Thanks,

 Dave Anderson

 A227 - Motorglider (no short wings)

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410680#410680

&onics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com========================<brsp;  --> <a href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" =======

djaflyact

Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 27

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Well..... I didn't notice the two little boxes with bearings that must be pressed into the sockets. That is the difference, because with those in there, the fit to the pin is very good. That issue is solved.



I'll just say this for the record. The aviation business has always amazed me. When a company makes a mistake in design, the customer ends up paying the price to resolve the issue. It almost makes you wonder if companies will make mistakes on purpose so they can make money on the users fixing their design screw ups. I know the Europa is a good airplane and I am sure they did not do this on purpose, but I just shelled out a huge amount of money for what is essentially very little hardware to fix a design problem they created. To make matters worse, if this doesn't go right, I could end up destroying my airplane.



The airplane is great to fly. It is extremely fuel efficient. With the 914 engine, it climbs like a U2 and goes as high as I want to go. If you lose and engine, all you think about is what caused it and not the urgency of landing in a field.  It is the first general aviation airplane I have flown that I need to pay attention to how high I am going, because even in cruise climb of about 95 knots, it climbs about 800fpm all the way to 18,000 feet. Now if I can just make the wing strong enough to keep me from worrying about it breaking!



I attempted to attach a picture of the forward socket with the little bearing next to it.



I'll post updates as the mod goes forward. My plan is to start it on Monday.



The spar is the wing, therefor it is extremely important to get this right. The rest is fluff.



Dave

A227

914 Motorglider 500TT

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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: MOD 78

Good to see you back Dave.   Have often wondered what happened to you and if 

you were still flying your long wing.  It's great to know that you have.



Best of luck doing the mod, I'm sure you will make a success of it.



Cheers



Kingsley in Oz



do not archive

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:12 am Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Hi Dave,



We have a mono airplane & bought the glider wings to be able to switch between airplane & motorglider.  We have  500 hours on the airplane but haven't done much work on the glider wings.



We started Mod 78 and completed laying up the ropes (2 people can do 1 spar in a long day).  Be sure to use Bud Yerly's notes in addition to the instructions from Europa.  We had to redo the first spar because the orientation of the mold was not clear & we had the bump up instead of down.  Clearance is very tight.  



After that, at Bud's suggestion, we checked clearances using the intensifier board as a template and found that the new wing spar will not fit - it contacts the flap actuator rod.  This is only an issue for the mono airplane configuration (flaps actuated with gear retraction).  Apparently the factory tested the mod on a pure mono glider and on a tri-gear airplane but not on a mono airplane. 



Because we (like you) don't want to screw up the wonderful flying characteristics of our Europa, and we have the added issue of re-engineering the flap actuator rod, we have stopped work on Mod 78 and are thinking of selling the glider wings.  



Jim & Heather Butcher

N241BW

klinefelter.kevin(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:02 am Post subject: MOD 78

Jim and Heather,

I hope you succeed in getting motorglider ability with your Mono-wheel. I still dream of long wings for mine.(let me know if you decide to sell them).

Perhaps you could change to electric flaps? Or some kind of quick release to get the flap rod clearance needed when the long wings are on.

Last week I shut down my 914 at 16,000 and feathered the Airmaster for a long glide. Not sure what the L/D is but it seems pretty decent to this old Hang Glider pilot. Did my first engine off landing too. 

Dave, have you ever computed the L/D of your long wings?



Kevin 

N211KA 550 hours



On Oct 17, 2013, at 5:12 AM, "h&jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi Dave,

 

 We have a mono airplane & bought the glider wings to be able to switch between airplane & motorglider.  We have  500 hours on the airplane but haven't done much work on the glider wings.

 

 We started Mod 78 and completed laying up the ropes (2 people can do 1 spar in a long day).  Be sure to use Bud Yerly's notes in addition to the instructions from Europa.  We had to redo the first spar because the orientation of the mold was not clear & we had the bump up instead of down.  Clearance is very tight.  

 

 After that, at Bud's suggestion, we checked clearances using the intensifier board as a template and found that the new wing spar will not fit - it contacts the flap actuator rod.  This is only an issue for the mono airplane configuration (flaps actuated with gear retraction).  Apparently the factory tested the mod on a pure mono glider and on a tri-gear airplane but not on a mono airplane. 

 

 Because we (like you) don't want to screw up the wonderful flying characteristics of our Europa, and we have the added issue of re-engineering the flap actuator rod, we have stopped work on Mod 78 and are thinking of selling the glider wings.  

 

 Jim & Heather Butcher

 N241BW

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=410737#410737

djaflyact

Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 27

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Thanks for the inputs. I got the idea to use the "intensifier board" as a template to check the clearance with the tank and all inside the airplane. Also, the mold metal needs to be fixed tightly to the wood part as if I use it now, the spar will be slightly larger. There is a small gap in places. I will be very careful with this to make sure it works.



I've flown it for 10 years now. I don't think it has the 27 to 1 glide ratio, but possibly 24:1. It certainly is a better option for safety when flying over the mountains. I can plan my flights to always be able to make it to an airport. My best flight in thermals near Minden has been climbing from 9,000 to 16,300 feet. I could have gone higher, but it was time to land. The biggest problem with the airplane is parking it at a transient airport. The wing span has been an issue at times. It will fit in a tiedown, but I have had issues with some airport managers about parking it.



It has gone through a series of avionics changes over the years - starting with vacuum gyros and ending up with  the Dynon Skyview with a panel mounted iPad Mini with WingX Pro and an iLevil AHRS and ADS B. Sure wish we had that technology in the airlines. It is frustrating to taxi in the fog as I did this morning in Paris and not have the geo referenced airport diagram. There is a safety possibility there that is easy for me to provide as an individual, yet I can't use it due to the big certification issue.



Anyway - thanks for all the inputs. Onward and upward!  Dave

neveyre(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:15 pm Post subject: MOD 78

Hi Dave, [& Ron P and any other interested parties]



Couple of tricks with this,

Buy a cheap 4'' angle grinder, grinding the carbon off the spar will **** it completely ! Use 40 grit discs, don't let the heat build up, don't keep the grinder in one place for too long, wear disposable overalls, good goggles and mask, do the grinding outside with your back to the wind ! Finnish with a Permagrit block, or 40 grit paper on a board.

Ignore the instructions re cutting the carbon tows. You will need  7 bundles of 16 tows, 17' long.

Set up 3 doors end to end on trestles to give you a 18'+ bench, alongside the wing, cover it in polythene. Set up the two reels of  carbon on some sort of spindle at the wing tip end of the bench. Pull 2 tows off the reels and tape to the far  [root ] end of the bench, tape the reel end of the tows to the bench at the 17' mark, cut and pull out another pair, tape both ends of each pair, repeat until you have 8 sets of pairs [16 tows] spread out so they are about 1'' wide. Unstick the tape and fold the [ 8 layers of ] tape over to hold the bundle together. Move it to one side of the bench, tape the bundle down with tension in it to keep the fibres straight. Repeat this six times so you have the 7 bundles of 16 tows, 17' long.

True up the alloy flange of the mould, you may need to add more screws. Cover the mould with packing tape, wax and release with PVA release. Bolt mould to the tang [ KINK IN MOULD IS ON BOTTOM ] with a released 1/2'' bolt, washers. Wind some PVC tape on the shank of the bolt to take up the bore of the bush hole in the spar. Trap peel ply between tang and mould, with enough hanging out the side to be able to wrap over the new rovings and onto the top of the tang. Open up the hole in the Intensifier to allow it to drop over the nut on the bolt holding the mould to the tang. Tape / wax the Intensifier. Get G [C ?] Clamps ready, at least 6, with wood packing etc... do a couple of dry runs....

2 person job.... mix the epoxy in small batches [200 grms] tape a bundle to what will be the ''wet area'' of the polythene covered bench, held in tension to keep the fibres straight, and wet out the tows with a foam roller, work up and down the tows so you have a 1'' wide flat ''tape'' of rovings, go up and down with the foam roller several times so it is fully saturated. Peel the bundle off the bench and pull it through fingers and thumb to remove excess resin, and let it neck down to be a 5/16'' rope. Cut the rope as described in the Instructions [ taper], wet out the peel ply in the mould so it is up against the side, lay the rope into the mould, start up against the outside wall of the mould, filling in and upwards, keep the ropes as straight as you can [ no twisting of the ropes].Force them tight with a mixing stick, ensure there are no voids. Person 1 tends to the ropes in the mould while Person 2 mixes epoxy and wets out the bundles.  When the cavity is full, flop the peel ply over and wet out onto the top surface of the tang, cover with polythene, fit the Intensifier and clamp it all down firmly. 

Instructions tell you to cut the new tip of the tang off on the Stb tang.... ??? I made a end wall to the mould for the Stb tang to the correct dimensions so you are moulding the rovings to the required shape, keeps continuity of the rovings and is faster to do than sawing through the cured carbon / epoxy !! 

Hope this helps, get back to me if any of this is not clear ?

Got a few tricks / tips for the wrap part of the Mod, will post those later

djaflyact

Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 27

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Thanks Nev! I am copying your notes and taking them to the hangar. I am getting a bit lost in the terms "tows". "rovings". I'm a bit confused about the packing of the carbon fibre in the mold. Does it wedge into the narrow end and stop, or does it loop and come back out? I am guessing it wedges in, but I am not sure what the significance of the 17 foot length is. It would be great if Europa had a video of the installation of the carbon into the mold.



I am committed to the project now. I've been thinking for month about how hard it would be to remove the bushings from the spar tang. It went very well with heat and it looks like I will be actually grinding tomorrow or the next day on the first victim. I bought a 6 inch pneumatic grinder and hope that will work, but I might be able to fit a 4 inch head on it if necessary.



I did a test fit of the intensifier board and it looks like I have plenty of clearance from the tank and the items below.



Is it necessary to remove the fibre glass layers from the root rib, or could I sand and glass over them - making it thicker and heavier, but avoids grinding at the root rib - along with the  glass used to secure the wing root fairing.



Thanks!   Dave

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djaflyact

Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 27

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:36 pm Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Sorry - didn't mean to post such a big picture file. Oops!



Dave

djaflyact

Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 27

Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Update on Mod 78.



Taking my time and being careful makes this go smoothly so far. I did not intend to grind today, but ended up completing about 1/8th of the dirty stinkings job. So far, so good.



Dave

A227

Motorglider

550 Hrs

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neveyre(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:53 am Post subject: MOD 78

Hi Dave,

  Tows / rovings, sorry, same thing.

  Cut the taper on the wet out ''rope'' and tuck it into the narrow end, smooth it down into the mould around the end of the spar and tuck it in the other narrow end, snipping off at the angle again. With the bench set up so the root end of the bench is in line with the wing skin root, you can tug the rope along the bench directly into the mould.

  17' was the length I worked out would give the least waste without having a bench miles long [At Europa they have a  rack of 15 spools which feed through a wet bath of resin, this must be how they worked out you needed 15metres of 15 tows to do the job, can you imagine the mess trying to do that DIY ?] 

  6'' pneumatic sander is ideal, but a 9'' electric one would be too fierce, just go softly softly so as not to create too much heat.

  New spar depth shouldn't be an issue with a pure motorglider, only with Mono retrofits, could be resolved by changing the flap pushrod for a Teleflex type cable, G-YURO had such originally, I could probably work something out if anyone needed to go that way ?

  With the original root rib to spar lay up [ 6 Bids], grind them off the spar completely and feather them off the rib by 1'' per ply, so over a 6'' area. So down to 1 Bid in the corner to nothing off at 6''. Large belt sander and a block by hand to do that, you will see the ''tide mark'' of shiny resin at the end of each ply as you sand through. Scuff sand past that and when you replace those lay ups, finish on the spar as per Manual, and start the lay ups on the rib 9'' from the spar with a 1'' stagger so the last of the 6 plies is 3'' from the spar.

  You will find carbon dust ending up EVERYWHERE ! Do it outside and let your neighbours have some ! 

  Cheers,

  Nev

  

  

  --

djaflyact

Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 27

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Thanks Nev. I have ground one spar tang today. Had to quit due to roasting in the sun and just the mess of it. I'm wondering if anyone has done this mod on a flying airplane. The reason I ask is that the speed brake control tufnol block is right there where the fiberglass is layed up against the root rib. To grind those payers off the root rib, I would ahve to remove the controls for the speed brakes and also the ailerons. What I was hoping to do is leave the fiberglass on the spar out about 2 to 3 inches and then add the new layers as called for in the build manual, but only run them up the root rib where possible. Otherwise, the new plies would essentially splice onto the existing pile on the root rib. Where I can run them up the root rib, it would be thicker than called for in the manual. There is also the issue of the glass that is holding on the wing root fairing, which is why I'm asking about not taking off the layers that are now on the root rib.



I'm still getting lost in the terminology - roves - tows, etc. Is there a source on the internet that defines what these terms mean?



I'm attaching a photo of it now, with the intensifier board on top for scale.



Oh - How far does the carbon fibre cloth go toward the rot rib? ALl the way to the 90 degree corner?



Off to shower off the dust - you are right - it goes everywhere. I am wearing a space suit and I still get it on me.

Dave



PS On one spar, There was a spot of somthing that looks almost like sap in a spot when I was grinding the shear web layers - toward the wing root.  Like a pocket of sap or a pocket of something that was not cured. This is about a 12 year old spar.

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:28 pm Post subject: MOD 78

Dave

I don't think you should shorten the added layups, that runs the risk of creating a sudden change of stiffness which would act as a stress raiser. Not what you want in a spar. 

We need the wing to bend smoothly , mostly out towards the tip where high loading (gust etc) will result in bending and 

gust aleviation. With the original spar too much of the bending occurs in the spar tangs.

All gliders have bendy wings and most of them give a reasonably smooth ride in rough air. You don't get that with an excessively stiff wing. You also get disruption of the laminar flow if the wing doesn't flex. This was explained in Soaring mag 20 years ago (maybe 30!) by Will Schumann. He chopped 2 metres off the tips of an ASW17 Open class glider, (hot ship at the time) The wing then became too stiff and the performance was way below what he  had calculated.

Graham





        From: djaflyact <djaflyact(at)gmail.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Tuesday, 22 October 2013, 21:51

 Subject: Re: MOD 78

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "djaflyact" <djaflyact(at)gmail.com (djaflyact(at)gmail.com)>



Thanks Nev. I have ground one spar tang today. Had to quit due to roasting in the sun and just the mess of it. I'm  wondering if anyone has done this mod on a flying airplane. The reason I ask is that the speed brake control tufnol block is right there where the fiberglass is layed up against the root rib. To grind those payers off the root rib, I would ahve to remove the controls for the speed brakes and also the ailerons. What I was hoping to do is leave the fiberglass on the spar out about 2 to 3 inches and then add the new layers as called for in the build manual, but only run them up the root rib where possible. Otherwise, the new plies would essentially splice onto the existing pile on the root rib. Where I can run them up the root rib, it would be thicker than called for in the manual. There is also the issue of the glass that is holding on the wing root fairing, which is why I'm asking about not taking off the layers that are now on the root rib.



I'm still getting lost in the terminology - roves - tows, etc. Is there a source on the internet that  defines what these terms mean?



I'm attaching a photo of it now, with the intensifier board on top for scale.



Oh - How far does the carbon fibre cloth go toward the rot rib? ALl the way to the 90 degree corner?



Off to shower off the dust - you are right - it goes everywhere. I am wearing a space suit and I still get it on me.

Dave



PS On one spar, There was a spot of somthing that looks almost like sap in a spot when I was grinding the shear web layers - toward the wing root.  Like a pocket of sap or a pocket of something that was not cured. This is about a 12 year old spar.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=411138#411138





Attachments: 



http://forums.matronics.com//files/grinding_done_196.jpgst" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List [quote][b]

djaflyact

Joined: 14 Oct 2013
Posts: 27

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Graham,



The idea would be to have the same plies of fiberglass on the spar, but use the existing plies that are on the root rib, buried behind the wing root fairing and control hardware. I would have about a tapered overlap in the corner between the spar tang and the root rib. That is my thought anyway. The only way to get the plies on the root rib off would be to create a huge amount of work over what is already required.



The instructions for the mod seem to be for a wing that has not yet been installed. I hope that I can bond the old plies with new ones and accomplish the same thing as disassembling the entire wing!



Dave

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:52 am Post subject: Re: MOD 78

Dave,



Wow - we were just feeling sorry for ourselves because we have to deal with changes needed on the fuselage.  Working with the fairings & controls already on would be really difficult.  Nev's tips are really helpful.



One thing we did, that wasn't in the instructions, was to make a template for the location of the hole that holds the aileron quick disconnect bracket in the spar.  We were worried that once the bid was on, we'd never find the right spot again    



Jim & Heather

neveyre(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:29 pm Post subject: MOD 78

Hi Dave,

To do the job properly, you are going to have to take out the aileron and airbrake pushrods anyway, so not much more of a job to grind / sweat off the tufnol block at the same time. Take measurements as to where the block is so you can replace it in exactly the same position. Best to keep to what has been tested / proven ?

Make up some sort of jig so you can find the hole for the aileron belcrank pivot after the tang has been covered with the carbon wrap [ you will need a longer bolt 

after the wrap ?]

The Instructions imply the carbon cloth goes into and ends in the corner, I didn't like all that extra stiffness stopping in one place, so I took the 4 side plies [ front and rear face] around the corner, onto the root rib, stepping them off at 2'', 1.5'', 1'', .5'', and finished the 4 wraps in the corner.

Here's the tip regarding laying up the carbon cloth.... carbon is black and shiny when it is dry, and black and shiny when it is wet, so how does the laminator know if he [ or she] has got it all wet ?

Weighing out the cloth and using the same amount of resin is one way, but there may [ will] be areas that will end up too dry, especially if wetting it uphill from underneath....... where a fair amount of resin will go up your arm !

Get some medium weight clear polythene sheet. Wash / wipe any release film contaminates off with paper towel and acetone.

Make a card template for the side plies, and the wrap plies to use to draw round.

Draw on the  finished shape of each lay up onto the poly' with a ball pen, do this for every individual ply, and cut them out with a couple of inches to spare all around. Cut out the same number of blank  pieces the same size

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:54 am Post subject: MOD 78

Nev

I like your technique wetting the carbon, my only difference is that I use industrial cling film instead of polythene.

Much easier to squeegee.

Graham



        From: Neville Eyre <neveyre(at)aol.com>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, 23 October 2013, 22:29

 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: MOD 78

  

 

 Hi Dave,

  To do the job properly, you are going to have to take out the aileron and airbrake pushrods anyway, so not much more of a job to grind / sweat off the tufnol block at the same time. Take measurements as to where the block is so you can replace it in exactly the same position. Best to keep to what has been tested / proven ?

  Make up some sort of jig so you can find the hole for the aileron belcrank pivot after the tang has been covered with the carbon wrap [ you will need a longer bolt 

  after the wrap ?]

  The Instructions imply the carbon cloth goes into and ends in the corner, I didn't like all that extra stiffness stopping in one place, so I took the 4 side plies [ front and rear face] around the corner, onto the root rib, stepping them off at 2'', 1.5'', 1'', .5'', and finished the 4 wraps in the corner.

  Here's the tip regarding laying up the carbon cloth.... carbon is black and shiny when it is dry, and black and shiny when it is wet, so how does the laminator know if he [ or she] has got it all wet ?

  Weighing out the cloth and using the same amount of resin is one way, but there may [ will] be areas that will end up too dry, especially if wetting it uphill from underneath....... where a fair amount of resin will go up your arm !

  Get some medium weight clear polythene sheet. Wash / wipe any release film contaminates off with paper towel and acetone.

  Make a card template for the side plies, and the wrap plies to use to draw round.

  Draw on the  finished shape of each lay up onto the poly' with a ball pen, do this for every individual ply, and cut them out with a couple of inches to spare all around. Cut out the same number of blank  pieces the same size.

  Turn the poly' over onto a poly' covered bench so the pen ink is on the underside, place the precut [ slightly oversize] carbon cloth on top of the  poly', so it overhangs the pen line, and pull the fibres about to get it all square and even. [the carbon is far looser in weave, it goes out of shape easier, but not as soft to go round corners.]

  Wet the carbon cloth initially with a brush, dibbing rather than brushing so as not to disturbthe weave, when it is wet and stuck to the poly', give it a gentle go over with a foam roller. Cover that with one of the plain sheets of poly', and squeegee through the poly' so it goes clear and you can see no dry weave areas thru it. Flip the poly' cloth sandwhich over and squeegee it on the other side until there are no visible dry weave areas, you can chase the exess resin about to wet out any dry areas. Once it looks all wet, squeegee quite hard to wipe out the exess out of the sandwhich, and scoop up that resin off the bench back into your pot.

  Flip the sandwhich back over, and cut through all of it with SHARP scissors, to the pen line which will just about be visable in good light. Bin the offcut, you now have a poor mans prepreg ! Peel off the poly from the side you want to stick it on, and you can carry it onto the job, it won't stretch / sag / and can be placed and removed until you are happy with the position. Squeegee it through the poly and chase out any air.

  Peel off the poly', and then roll over the carbon with a roller made from plain and spring washers, to get all the air out and really mash the cloth onto the surface.

  Wipe off the poly' covered bench to remove all resin, and start again. You will need to put on new gloves for each ply, as you won't be able to smooth / stretch the cloth about with sticky gloves. Reckon on using a couple of gallons of acetone, 2 or three paper towel rolls and 200 gloves for all of this, with all the poly' off cuts and sheets you will fill 3 dustbin liners !

  Do a trial poly' prepreg before the real deal, to get the hang of doing it, really makes it easy compared with trying to juggle with the cloth and wetting on the job. Ensure there are no creases / wrinkles in the poly, tailor the ink lines to miss any.

  Good luck,

  Nev

   

   

   

   

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