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New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

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Arizona Flyer

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Casa Grande Arizona

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:35 am Post subject: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

The lead acid battery in my Firestar II leaked acid into the fuse and layed on the fabric for days. It did no damage which is a testament to how strong the fabric is. I cleaned it with vinegar & water. The battery was upright and acid was forced out the caps. I had the plane out in the Arizona 90*+ heat for a few days with a white towel over the battery but found the acid leak when the plane was at home under shade and I'm guessing the heat swelled the battery causing the leak? The former owner put in a cheapo from China Mart (Walmart) No way am I putting that battery back in the plane and risk another leak. In research I came upon Lithium Iron batteries. The weight savings is amazing. The old lead acid weighed 11 lbs. and the new Shorai Lithium-Iron Battery LFX14L2-BS12 weighs only 1.46 lbs. It was hard to spend the extra money but I did, $144.00 for battery, and I ordered the balance/storage charger also for $77.00 My Firestar is on the heavy side and I'm glad to take 9.54 lbs. off the weight. These Lithium Iron batteries are said to have more starting power than lead acid for the same amp hour rating. They are said to take more heat and last about 3 times longer, are sealed, and can be positioned any way you want with no danger of leaking. Was wondering if any other Kolb owners have looked into or purchased one of these newer Lithium Iron batteries? It can get confusing with amp hour ratings, but the specs for Rotax starter battery says minimum 16 Ah and higher is better. The old lead acid was 11 Ah and started the 503 just fine. The Lithium Iron I ordered is 14 Ah but puts out more power than lead acid so it should be better. When not using a lead acid it should be kept fully charged, but Lithium should be stored at 70% to 80% charge to extend it's life which is why I ordered the charger/balancer with 'storage' feature. I ordered mine from Rocky Mountain, an ATV/Motorcycle supply place. I found when you look for 'aircraft' Lithium Iron batteries the price goes up of course. Battery Mart carries them for $152.00 but for $144.00 I got mine here... http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/44/54/227/730/5796/31299/Shorai-Lithium-Iron-Battery

_________________
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:21 am Post subject: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

this is the  type of battery I am using.. 

http://www.arizonabattery.com/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=58&category_id=b291dca6cea297f2a41f49052a63d38d& 

.  I found one of these in an ups   (uninterruptable power supply )  that 

had a split down one side across several cells and there was no leaks or 

damage to the ups.  at $40.00  it is cheap.   .... when I first built my 

mkiii I  bought a "quick start"  from harbor freight for about $35.00 and 

used the battery in my plane.  it was still working 5 or 6 years later..   I 

ordered a replacement battery from harbor frt for the quick start,,,  seems 

it was only 16 dollars.  so I ordered 2,,,  one for the plane and one to put 

back in the quick start,   it took a long time on the boat from china. 

seems the freight was under 10 dollars for both.  the second is going on 6 

years..   if you order from Arizona battery,  it will be there in 3 days or 

so verses the 3 months from china.



the Lithium iron sounds intriguing.   if they last 3 times longer,  it is 

still quite a bargain,   provided 3 times means 3 x 5 years,,,  not 3 x 1 

year.  and the weight savings is good...    my plane could loose that much 

weight if I would put less popcorn in my mouth....



boyd young



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


--

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:13 am Post subject: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

I'm very interested in how things go with the lithium battery. The weight savings is huge I have been considering them for a few years now. Our planes fly better the lighter they are so this is a big deal. Cookies are my downfall so pilot weight is most likely going to continue to be a problem. I talked to Steve Bennett at Great Plains about them, we decided that with my single compufire ignition system that I would wait a bit longer to switch. If I had to disconnect the battery in flight my alternator would not provided the proper power to keep the spark going. 



I'm in Florida for the winter and have removed my redrive from the plane so that I can send it back to Valley Engineering for a free upgrade. The upgrade is lightening the redrive by 6-8 oz. My redrive is a pre production version. Every ounce helps. Last time I weighed my redrive VW powered MKIIIC it was 598lbs. Lighter redrive, lighter battery, four small bolts that are too long, etc., maybe be a few less cookies, who knows how light it could be. 

 



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

On Sun, Oct 20, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Arizona Flyer <heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com (heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Arizona Flyer" <heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com (heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 The lead acid battery in my Firestar II leaked acid into the fuse and layed on the fabric for days. It did no damage which is a testament to how strong the fabric is. I cleaned it with vinegar & water. The battery was upright and acid was forced out the caps. I had the plane out in the Arizona 90*+ heat for a few days with a white towel over the battery but found the acid leak when the plane was at home under shade and I'm guessing the heat swelled the battery causing the leak? The former owner put in a cheapo from China Mart (Walmart) No way am I putting that battery back in the plane and risk another leak. In research I came upon Lithium Iron batteries. The weight savings is amazing. The old lead acid weighed 11 lbs. and the new Shorai Lithium-Iron Battery LFX14L2-BS12 weighs only 1.46 lbs. It was hard to spend the extra money but I did, $144.00 for battery, and I ordered the balance/storage charger also for $77.00 My Firestar is on the heavy side and I'm glad to take 9.54!

    lbs. off the weight. These Lithium Iron batteries are said to have more starting power than lead acid for the same amp hour rating. They are said to take more heat and last about 3 times longer, are sealed, and can be positioned any way you want with no danger of leaking. Was wondering if any other Kolb owners have looked into or purchased one of these newer Lithium Iron batteries? It can get confusing with amp hour ratings, but the specs for Rotax starter battery says minimum 16 Ah and higher is better. The old lead acid was 11 Ah and started the 503 just fine. The Lithium Iron I ordered is 14 Ah but puts out more power than lead acid so it should be better. When not using a lead acid it should be kept fully charged, but Lithium should be stored at 70% to 80% charge to extend it's life which is why I ordered the charger/balancer with 'storage' feature. I ordered mine from Rocky Mountain, an ATV/Motorcycle supply place. I found when you look for 'aircraft' Lithium Iron bat!

   teries the price goes up of course. Battery Mart carries them !

  for $152

 

 .00 but for $144.00 I got mine here... http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/44/54/227/730/5796/31299/Shorai-Lithium-Iron-Battery

  

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Arizona Flyer

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Casa Grande Arizona

Posted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:49 am Post subject: Re: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

Rick; I'll post updates of my experience with the new lithium battery here. I've read reviews where people pick up the battery for the first time and is so light they think it's empty, then are amazed at how much power they put out. I fly RC model airplanes all with brushless motors and have a fleet of lithium 'LiPo' batteries so I'm used to them, but this will be the 1st time I use one this large for a full size airplane. I am happy to lose the weight of the lead acid battery. Good luck with your redrive. When I was airplane shopping I strongly considered the Valley Engineering Backyard Flyer 4-stroke ultralight but could not get comfortable with IMO that ugly looking wing on it.

Boyd. Thanks for the info on Arizona battery, I had already ordered my new Shorai when I read it.

_________________
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"

wakataka

Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 48

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:39 am Post subject: Re: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

I just mounted a Shorai 14 amp hour equivalent battery on my other airplane with a Kawasaki 440. I've only got 2 hours on it so far. Last evening, I flooded the engine and had to crank about 10 or 12 times to finally get it running. The battery wasn't fully charged to start with, but it managed a surprising amount of cranking. After 10 or more attempted starts it was just about done (voltage down to 12.7v). If you read the label on the battery, it only has about 4.5 amp hours of energy in it, but it can put out the equivalent starting amps of a 14 amp hour lead acid battery. So if your engine is balky, this battery would probably run down faster than the lead acid battery. It doesn't contain as much total energy. It also cautions you never to drain it all the way down or it can be permanently damaged. Lithium is much less forgiving of abuse than lead acid. But it sure puts out the amps. The starter spins faster on this battery than when I jump it off my truck battery.

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There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

Arizona Flyer

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Casa Grande Arizona

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

That's great info thanks. With my RC airplane lithium batteries I know to never drain them below about 7.2 volts for each cell or they can be ruined. Like you said, they can't take discharge like a lead acid can. Glad my Rotax 503 fires right up. The only time I started running down my lead acid in the Firestar was when I first got it and the 2nd time starting it I forgot to turn the under seat ignition switches on, flipped them on and it fired right up. With lithium, for storage it's also good to bring the voltage down to 70% to 80% of full charge. They don't like to be stored at 100% and will shorten the life, they also tend to puff or swell when stored at 100% That is why I bought the charger/balancer/storage unit specially made for these Shorai lithium batteries. When my new battery & charger was delivered, I picked up the shipping box and it was so light I figured no way is there enough power in here to start a 503 or anything else, I know I will be surprised after I install it...

_________________
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"

Arizona Flyer

Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 31
Location: Casa Grande Arizona

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

Reporting on my new Lithium Iron battery... It's amazing, and is working very well in my FS-II. When I picked up the shipping box on my back porch which held the battery & charger it was so light I didn't think there could be much power in this battery. After opening the box I was shocked at how small it was, more shocked how light it was. I was thinking this could barely power a child's little electric car around the driveway. I thought how could  it start a Rotax 503? I now have 2 flights on it and my 503 is cold blooded so it sometimes takes a bit of cranking to start and this battery shows no sign of wearing down. This Shorai Lithium Iron is fantastic, very pleased with my decision to get this. And it's only 1 1/2 lbs. It's very small and I just got a small cloth strap with Velcro from Ace hardware and was a 2 minute job to install. I picked up the old lead acid battery and it's so heavy and seems like ancient history now. Saved a little more weight by replacing that old big stainless steel strap with the feather weight cloth strap. If you want to save several pounds you've got to try one of these, a lot easier to mount also.

_________________
"Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death"

agramjak(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:19 pm Post subject: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

I got one for my FSII as well, worth the few extra $



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Nov 12, 2013, at 2:48 PM, "Arizona Flyer" <heracesthesun(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Reporting on my new Lithium Iron battery... It's amazing, and is working very well in my FS-II. When I picked up the shipping box on my back porch which held the battery & charger it was so light I didn't think there could be much power in this battery. After opening the box I was shocked at how small it was, more shocked how light it was. I was thinking this could barely power a child's little electric car around the driveway. I thought how could  it start a Rotax 503? I now have 2 flights on it and my 503 is cold blooded so it sometimes takes a bit of cranking to start and this battery shows no sign of wearing down. This Shorai Lithium Iron is fantastic, very pleased with my decision to get this. And it's only 1 1/2 lbs. It's very small and I just got a small cloth strap with Velcro from Ace hardware and was a 2 minute job to install. I picked up the old lead acid battery and it's so heavy and seems like ancient history now. Saved a little more weight by replacing that old!

  big stainless steel strap with the feather weight cloth strap. If you want to save several pounds you've got to try one of these, a lot easier to mount also.

 

 --------

 &quot;Life should be lived as a bold adventure, I refuse to tiptoe through life just to arrive safely at death&quot;

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=412889#412889

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

my 503 is cold blooded so it sometimes takes a bit of cranking to start

and this battery shows no sign of wearing down.  



Kolbers:



There is one correct procedure to crank a cold Rotax, 2 or 4 stroke.  If one

doesn't follow the way the book says to crank it, it will be difficult to

start, especially when cold.



Bing carbs used on 2 and 4 stroke Rotax do not have a choke.  They use an

enricher system.  If the throttle is not in the closed position when the

enricher is pulled fully on, the enricher will not work properly.



There is an enricher well in the float bowl and also an enricher jet.  With

throttle closed and enricher fully on, when the engine is cranked it

initially pulls a big slug of fuel out of the enricher well, then continues

to pull fuel through the enricher jet which is larger than the idle jet.

During the start procedure the engine gets more air and fuel which also

causes a faster idle.  Once the engine starts, you can slowly increase

throttle and rpm to whatever the books calls for warm ups.



I have never had a need for primers on any of my aircraft, 2 and 4 stroke,

when I use the recommend start procedure.



Have started all my Rotax engines, well below freezing, with no problems,

pull and electric start.



Thought I would throw that tidbit out to you all.  Your mileage may vary.





john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rowedenny

Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:55 pm Post subject: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

I have had the same results.

Do not archive



Dennis "Skid" Rowe

Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Nov 12, 2013, at 4:46 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

  my 503 is cold blooded so it sometimes takes a bit of cranking to start

 and this battery shows no sign of wearing down.  

 

 

 

 Kolbers:

 

 There is one correct procedure to crank a cold Rotax, 2 or 4 stroke.  If one

 doesn't follow the way the book says to crank it, it will be difficult to

 start, especially when cold.

 

 Bing carbs used on 2 and 4 stroke Rotax do not have a choke.  They use an

 enricher system.  If the throttle is not in the closed position when the

 enricher is pulled fully on, the enricher will not work properly.

 

 There is an enricher well in the float bowl and also an enricher jet.  With

 throttle closed and enricher fully on, when the engine is cranked it

 initially pulls a big slug of fuel out of the enricher well, then continues

 to pull fuel through the enricher jet which is larger than the idle jet.

 During the start procedure the engine gets more air and fuel which also

 causes a faster idle.  Once the engine starts, you can slowly increase

 throttle and rpm to whatever the books calls for warm ups.

 

 I have never had a need for primers on any of my aircraft, 2 and 4 stroke,

 when I use the recommend start procedure.

 

 Have started all my Rotax engines, well below freezing, with no problems,

 pull and electric start.

 

 Thought I would throw that tidbit out to you all.  Your mileage may vary.

 

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

Larlaeb

Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 75
Location: League City, Texas United States

Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: New Firestar battery Lithium Iron 1.46 lbs.

I have used a Lithium battery in my MkIII with a 912UL for the last 5 months or so.  Works great and I have had no starting problems.  I may have a slightly bigger one than mentioned above.  Mine weights almost 2 lbs.

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