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Original Sight Gauge Replication

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tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:38 pm Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

Gidday,I am interested in installing a fuel sight gauge for "PRE-flight" interpretation. I am wondering if there is any recommendation that makes the setup more effective or accurate. I'm also wondering if there is any value in having two small ball valves to be able to isolate it, both in a rollover or to simply turn it off. I am using flexible Aeroquip fuel hose, and will be using a fuel computer as my primary means of knowing my fuel state, PLUS, I have a Fuel tank capacitance gauge. Maybe with the capacitance I don't need a sight gauge at all, but I have the plumbing in my fuel tank outlet fittings, so it seems sensible to use it.  Any help much appreciated. 

Regards

Tony Renshaw

Sydney Aussie

This is a picture of the small valves I "could" use, and the 1/4" ID line I intend to use on a sight gauge setup. 





[img]cid:80C4C146-DAAB-4F04-9721-B143BEB18999(at)optusnet.com.au[/img]

IMG_6863.jpeg

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pete(at)lawless.info
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:28 am Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

Hi Tony  

   

It would be useful to have a sight gauge that worked in the air as well.  On AC I have a fuel computer and tank capacitance gauge but no sight gauge.  This makes me ask the question ‘What would I do if one or the other showed a sudden loss in volume?’ probably assume it was an instrument problem rather than a major fuel leak?  Under that circumstance a third, all be it somewhat inaccurate, indication would be invaluable.  

   

Regards  

   

Pete  

   

--

jimca(at)ozemail.com.au
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:46 am Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

Tony

I have the original sight gauge and would not do it again

After a few years I added a sight gauge behind the FOs seat that is used for re-fuelling, and it is better than the original. It's calibrated for tail down and tail up. This would serve fine for your use as a " emergency confidence" check in flight.

It just links the reserve outlet to the very top of the tank, a closed circuit.

Don't like the fuel in the reccomended position and the requirement for pipes all the way back to the vent.

Regards

Jim McAvoy



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 27 Nov 2013, at 3:36 pm, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 Gidday,

 I am interested in installing a fuel sight gauge for "PRE-flight" interpretation. I am wondering if there is any recommendation that makes the setup more effective or accurate. I'm also wondering if there is any value in having two small ball valves to be able to isolate it, both in a rollover or to simply turn it off. I am using flexible Aeroquip fuel hose, and will be using a fuel computer as my primary means of knowing my fuel state, PLUS, I have a Fuel tank capacitance gauge. Maybe with the capacitance I don't need a sight gauge at all, but I have the plumbing in my fuel tank outlet fittings, so it seems sensible to use it.  Any help much appreciated. 

 Regards

 Tony Renshaw

 Sydney Aussie

 

 This is a picture of the small valves I "could" use, and the 1/4" ID line I intend to use on a sight gauge setup. 

 

 

 <IMG_6863.jpeg>

max8992

Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:59 am Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

Tony,



I've a fuel gauge on panel but don't trust much the indication it gives so

I've reinstalled the sight gauge behind the port backrest and look at it it

after each flight to verify the quantity of fuel available - so to confirm

my estimation. 

Still have in mind to install a fuel flow to replace the gauge on the

panel...



Max  Cointe

mcointe(at)free.fr

F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear

Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 490 hours



F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4S 

Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1600 heures

-----Message d'origine-----

De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de Jim McAvoy

Envoyé : mercredi 27 novembre 2013 10:46

À : europa-list(at)matronics.com

Objet : Re: Original Sight Gauge Replication






Tony

I have the original sight gauge and would not do it again After a few years

I added a sight gauge behind the FOs seat that is used for re-fuelling, and

it is better than the original. It's calibrated for tail down and tail up.

This would serve fine for your use as a " emergency confidence" check in

flight.

It just links the reserve outlet to the very top of the tank, a closed

circuit.

Don't like the fuel in the reccomended position and the requirement for

pipes all the way back to the vent.

Regards

Jim McAvoy



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 27 Nov 2013, at 3:36 pm, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 Gidday,

 I am interested in installing a fuel sight gauge for "PRE-flight"

interpretation. I am wondering if there is any recommendation that makes the
	


setup more effective or accurate. I'm also wondering if there is any value

in having two small ball valves to be able to isolate it, both in a rollover

or to simply turn it off. I am using flexible Aeroquip fuel hose, and will

be using a fuel computer as my primary means of knowing my fuel state, PLUS,

I have a Fuel tank capacitance gauge. Maybe with the capacitance I don't

need a sight gauge at all, but I have the plumbing in my fuel tank outlet

fittings, so it seems sensible to use it.  Any help much appreciated. 

 	  Quote: 	
		   Regards

 Tony Renshaw

 Sydney Aussie

 

 This is a picture of the small valves I "could" use, and the 1/4" ID line

I intend to use on a sight gauge setup. 
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 <IMG_6863.jpeg>

_________________
Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:01 am Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

Tony

have a look at this, works reliably. The large breather pipe helps filling too, the air can get out easier

unlike the standard 1/4" pipe which causes fuel to splutter out of the filler.

Graham

        From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com>

 

  

 

Gidday,I am interested in installing a fuel sight gauge for "PRE-flight" interpretation. I am wondering if there is any recommendation that makes the setup more effective or accurate. I'm also wondering if there is any value in having two small ball valves to be able to isolate it, both in a rollover or to simply turn it off. I am using flexible Aeroquip fuel hose, and will be using a fuel computer as my primary means of knowing my fuel state, PLUS, I have a Fuel tank capacitance gauge. Maybe with the capacitance I don't need a sight gauge at all, but I have the plumbing in my fuel tank outlet fittings, so it seems sensible to use it.  Any help much  appreciated. 

Regards

Tony Renshaw

Sydney Aussie

This is a picture of the small valves I "could" use, and the 1/4" ID line I intend to use on a sight gauge setup. 





[img]cid:1.1256741978(at)web87704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com[/img]

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asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:47 am Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

Some time back there was a discussion of using a pressure transducer on the tank outlet fitting for sensing the hydrostatic pressure, which can then be calibrated for fuel volume. This is what I plan on doing. In order to work properly, the tank vent line has to be connected to the other side of the transducer so it can get the correct differential pressure. I believe Paul McAllister did something similar to this.

  



On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 6:00 AM, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		  Tony

  have a look at this, works reliably. The large breather pipe helps filling too, the air can get out easier

  unlike the standard 1/4" pipe which causes fuel to splutter out of the filler.

Graham

  



        From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com (tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com)>

   

  

 

Gidday,I am interested in installing a fuel sight gauge for "PRE-flight" interpretation. I am wondering if there is any recommendation that makes the setup more effective or accurate. I'm also wondering if there is any value in having two small ball valves to be able to isolate it, both in a rollover or to simply turn it off. I am using flexible Aeroquip fuel hose, and will be using a fuel computer as my primary means of knowing my fuel state, PLUS, I have a Fuel tank capacitance gauge. Maybe with the capacitance I don't need a sight gauge at all, but I have the plumbing in my fuel tank outlet fittings, so it seems sensible to use it.  Any help much  appreciated. 

Regards

Tony Renshaw

Sydney Aussie

This is a picture of the small valves I "could" use, and the 1/4" ID line I intend to use on a sight gauge setup. 

  





[img]cid:1.1256741978(at)web87704.mail.ir2.yahoo.com[/img]

IMG_6863.jpeg

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100.31 KB

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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:31 am Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

Hello everyone,

I have been using this in my aircraft since 2004.  Tony K did the original design work and it is based on a PIC micro processor.  It is calibrated in 1/10th increments from empty to full and displays on a 10 segment LED or an analogue display.

  



There isn't any PCB design and most people who have built them seemed to have trouble in getting them up an running.  It's not complex to build but they do require a bit of tinkering to get them working, installed and calibrated. In my case I set up a water manometer on my bench to get it debugged and working.

  



The only issue I have had is that despite having a static vent on the differential side, the gauge does read high when climbing and low when descending and it takes a few minutes to stabilize in these scenarios. It hasn't been enough of a problem for me to bother with trying to fix it. Other than this it has functioned reliably for the last 9 years.

  



I use this in conjunction with my fuel totalizer and I do not have a sight gauge.

I do have the source code so I could burn some PIC's for people, but before doing this I will need Tony K's permission.  I guess if there was enough interest I could create a PCB design and build a batch of them.  I will need to think on this some more before I sign up for this. 

  



Regards, Paul



  [quote][b]

jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:18 pm Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

What has always puzzled me.

According to the specifications of the sensor the uncertainty in the 

initial zero offset is +/- about 25 % of our full scale of 0.5 psi (35 

cm of water). Which in the general case would require a generous bias 

(using an opamp) to the output of the instrumentation amplifier. 

Ofcourse, maybe Honeywell is way too pessimistic in its specification. 

Tony K must have decided so?



Jan de Jong



On 11/27/2013 7:30 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hello everyone,



 I have been using this in my aircraft since 2004.  Tony K did the 

 original design work and it is based on a PIC micro processor.  It is 

 calibrated in 1/10th increments from empty to full and displays on a 

 10 segment LED or an analogue display.



 There isn't any PCB design and most people who have built them seemed 

 to have trouble in getting them up an running. It's not complex to 

 build but they do require a bit of tinkering to get them working, 

 installed and calibrated. In my case I set up a water manometer on my 

 bench to get it debugged and working.



 The only issue I have had is that despite having a static vent on the 

 differential side, the gauge does read high when climbing and low when 

 descending and it takes a few minutes to stabilize in these scenarios. 

 It hasn't been enough of a problem for me to bother with trying to fix 

 it. Other than this it has functioned reliably for the last 9 years.



 I use this in conjunction with my fuel totalizer and I do not have a 

 sight gauge.



 I do have the source code so I could burn some PIC's for people, but 

 before doing this I will need Tony K's permission.  I guess if there 

 was enough interest I could create a PCB design and build a batch of 

 them.  I will need to think on this some more before I sign up for 

 this. 



 Regards, Paul

asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:19 pm Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

I don't remember which chip TonyK used originally, but there are MEMS

based membrane pressure sensors out there with 0.5 psi full scale (or

even smaller scales). I plan to do this with a Atmel controller, and

when I get around to it, I will post it here for everyone's benefit.



Here is one: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Microstructures-Inc/SM5852-003-G-3-NR/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhQj7WZhFIAE1JN4kSCAy2w%2fQb30WxsAg%3d

On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 What has always puzzled me.

 According to the specifications of the sensor the uncertainty in the initial

 zero offset is +/- about 25 % of our full scale of 0.5 psi (35 cm of water).

 Which in the general case would require a generous bias (using an opamp) to

 the output of the instrumentation amplifier. Ofcourse, maybe Honeywell is

 way too pessimistic in its specification. Tony K must have decided so?



 Jan de Jong

 On 11/27/2013 7:30 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:

>

> Hello everyone,

>

> I have been using this in my aircraft since 2004.  Tony K did the original

> design work and it is based on a PIC micro processor.  It is calibrated in

> 1/10th increments from empty to full and displays on a 10 segment LED or an

> analogue display.

>

> There isn't any PCB design and most people who have built them seemed to

> have trouble in getting them up an running. It's not complex to build but

> they do require a bit of tinkering to get them working, installed and

> calibrated. In my case I set up a water manometer on my bench to get it

> debugged and working.

>

> The only issue I have had is that despite having a static vent on the

> differential side, the gauge does read high when climbing and low when

> descending and it takes a few minutes to stabilize in these scenarios. It

> hasn't been enough of a problem for me to bother with trying to fix it.

> Other than this it has functioned reliably for the last 9 years.

>

> I use this in conjunction with my fuel totalizer and I do not have a sight

> gauge.

>

> I do have the source code so I could burn some PIC's for people, but

> before doing this I will need Tony K's permission.  I guess if there was

> enough interest I could create a PCB design and build a batch of them.  I

> will need to think on this some more before I sign up for this. 

>

> Regards, Paul

>

jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:51 pm Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

Tony K used the original large version of 26PC01??? , now available as 

26PC01SMT at both Mouser and Digikey.

Two important properties:

- temperature compensation for the range 0 to 50 degrees C

- fuel compatible (fluorosilicone seal I believe)



On 11/28/2013 1:18 AM, Andrew Sarangan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I don't remember which chip TonyK used originally, but there are MEMS

 based membrane pressure sensors out there with 0.5 psi full scale (or

 even smaller scales). I plan to do this with a Atmel controller, and

 when I get around to it, I will post it here for everyone's benefit.



 Here is one: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Microstructures-Inc/SM5852-003-G-3-NR/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhQj7WZhFIAE1JN4kSCAy2w%2fQb30WxsAg%3d

 On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> wrote:

> 

> What has always puzzled me.

> According to the specifications of the sensor the uncertainty in the initial

> zero offset is +/- about 25 % of our full scale of 0.5 psi (35 cm of water).

> Which in the general case would require a generous bias (using an opamp) to

> the output of the instrumentation amplifier. Ofcourse, maybe Honeywell is

> way too pessimistic in its specification. Tony K must have decided so?

>

> Jan de Jong

> On 11/27/2013 7:30 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:

>> Hello everyone,

>>

>> I have been using this in my aircraft since 2004.  Tony K did the original

>> design work and it is based on a PIC micro processor.  It is calibrated in

>> 1/10th increments from empty to full and displays on a 10 segment LED or an

>> analogue display.

>>

>> There isn't any PCB design and most people who have built them seemed to

>> have trouble in getting them up an running. It's not complex to build but

>> they do require a bit of tinkering to get them working, installed and

>> calibrated. In my case I set up a water manometer on my bench to get it

>> debugged and working.

>>

>> The only issue I have had is that despite having a static vent on the

>> differential side, the gauge does read high when climbing and low when

>> descending and it takes a few minutes to stabilize in these scenarios. It

>> hasn't been enough of a problem for me to bother with trying to fix it.

>> Other than this it has functioned reliably for the last 9 years.

>>

>> I use this in conjunction with my fuel totalizer and I do not have a sight

>> gauge.

>>

>> I do have the source code so I could burn some PIC's for people, but

>> before doing this I will need Tony K's permission.  I guess if there was

>> enough interest I could create a PCB design and build a batch of them.  I

>> will need to think on this some more before I sign up for this. 

>>

>> Regards, Paul

>>

>

>

asarangan(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:04 pm Post subject: Original Sight Gauge Replication

A simpler approach would be to directly connect one of these

differential sensors to a programmable panel meter, like this one:



http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/workshop/ProductNews/panelmeters.html



Then you wouldn't have to build any circuits or boards.



On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Tony K used the original large version of 26PC01??? , now available as

 26PC01SMT at both Mouser and Digikey.

 Two important properties:

 - temperature compensation for the range 0 to 50 degrees C

 - fuel compatible (fluorosilicone seal I believe)



 On 11/28/2013 1:18 AM, Andrew Sarangan wrote:

>

> 

> I don't remember which chip TonyK used originally, but there are MEMS

> based membrane pressure sensors out there with 0.5 psi full scale (or

> even smaller scales). I plan to do this with a Atmel controller, and

> when I get around to it, I will post it here for everyone's benefit.

>

> Here is one:

> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Silicon-Microstructures-Inc/SM5852-003-G-3-NR/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvhQj7WZhFIAE1JN4kSCAy2w%2fQb30WxsAg%3d

> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Jan de Jong <jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl>

> wrote:

>>

>> 

>>

>>

>> What has always puzzled me.

>> According to the specifications of the sensor the uncertainty in the

>> initial

>> zero offset is +/- about 25 % of our full scale of 0.5 psi (35 cm of

>> water).

>> Which in the general case would require a generous bias (using an opamp)

>> to

>> the output of the instrumentation amplifier. Ofcourse, maybe Honeywell is

>> way too pessimistic in its specification. Tony K must have decided so?

>>

>> Jan de Jong

>>

>>

>> On 11/27/2013 7:30 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:

>>>

>>> Hello everyone,

>>>

>>> I have been using this in my aircraft since 2004.  Tony K did the

>>> original

>>> design work and it is based on a PIC micro processor.  It is calibrated

>>> in

>>> 1/10th increments from empty to full and displays on a 10 segment LED or

>>> an

>>> analogue display.

>>>

>>> There isn't any PCB design and most people who have built them seemed to

>>> have trouble in getting them up an running. It's not complex to build

>>> but

>>> they do require a bit of tinkering to get them working, installed and

>>> calibrated. In my case I set up a water manometer on my bench to get it

>>> debugged and working.

>>>

>>> The only issue I have had is that despite having a static vent on the

>>> differential side, the gauge does read high when climbing and low when

>>> descending and it takes a few minutes to stabilize in these scenarios.

>>> It

>>> hasn't been enough of a problem for me to bother with trying to fix it.

>>> Other than this it has functioned reliably for the last 9 years.

>>>

>>> I use this in conjunction with my fuel totalizer and I do not have a

>>> sight

>>> gauge.

>>>

>>> I do have the source code so I could burn some PIC's for people, but

>>> before doing this I will need Tony K's permission.  I guess if there was

>>> enough interest I could create a PCB design and build a batch of them.

>>> I

>>> will need to think on this some more before I sign up for this. 

>>>

>>> Regards, Paul

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

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