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Jane_03
Joined: 24 Dec 2013
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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I have a hardtop roof, I brought it at the end of last winter, I have a storage rack for the hard top and this the first winter of putting it on, how would other TF owners suggest that I need to manage rooftop self storage in Brendale?
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:45 pm Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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Hi Folks:
The email, below, has something to do with a thread Dennis Thate started 3
years ago. Don't recommend clicking on the url, although I did before I
realized that the post is not legitimate.
Matt needs to check into this one.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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John Hauck
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lownslow
Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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mind if I jump in here with a question?
I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed) without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold but would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share....
Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
Mike
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rowedenny
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:54 pm Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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Plumb a motorcycle radiator inside your cockpit with a 12 volt fan on it.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
| Quote: | On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:49 PM, "lownslow" <mnmcouillard(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
mind if I jump in here with a question?
I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed) without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold but would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share....
Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:07 pm Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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I'm not sure how cold is too cold? I decided that rather than try to winterize my engine, I would just fly it every once and a while. Moisture is not one of our problems here. I have an "electric vest" (Chili vest is the brand, but there are many new items on the market now that are designed for motor cycle gear, that weren't available when I bought my vest. There is everything from pants to gloves, and at not that bad a price. All of which either run off your plane battery or regular batteries.)
Myself, I hate to be bundled up to where I can't move, so the vest works great. I just wear the vest, plug it into a cigar lighter plug on the plane, Wear a "wild rag" (Silk cowboy scarf), or a gaiter would do, a pair of insulated bibs from Cabela's. I use a pair of neophreme bogs on my feet and slip a rag wool stocking cap over my headset. I just finished an hour and half flight checking out the Coyote populations and doing some touch and goes in the pattern. I stayed quite warm except for my left wrist, which had been in a draft where my enclosure is gaped.
My enclosure wraps around the pilot's seat but is open at the back. So basically all it does is keep the wind off me. The outside temps were at 41 degrees when I landed.
When I had the air cooled two strokes on the plane I had fashioned a heater that would pipe in the air from the engine. Quite frankly the Chilli vest made all that work unnecessary. If I were to fly for a longer period of time, the first thing that would get cold would be my feet, but I can stand an hour and half with no discomfort.
I my opinion if you can keep the wind off you, dressing properly is a whole lot easier than all the engineering you would have to do, and you would still wear the same amount of clothes that I just described. You however may disagree.
Larry
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 1:49 PM, lownslow <mnmcouillard(at)yahoo.com (mnmcouillard(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "lownslow" <mnmcouillard(at)yahoo.com (mnmcouillard(at)yahoo.com)>
mind if I jump in here with a question?
I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed) without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold but would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share....
Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248
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russk50(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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I'm sure John H will tell you about his Chili vest! -- elec. heated vests, gloves, sox, cushions etc are all great.
On Dec 27, 2013, at 3:49 PM, lownslow wrote:
| Quote: |
mind if I jump in here with a question?
I'm curious about heater setups, since it came up in this thread. I have a Mk III C with a Rotax 670 being installed and since I am in Colorado I wanted to see if there is an effective way to pipe heat into the cockpit (it's fully enclosed) without a lot of fuss and engineering. Would anyone that's done it share your results and satisfaction with your setup? I'd appreciate it. I guess from the few discussions I've had with other Kolb owners, I had ruled it out as something that doesn't work well, so had resigned myself to wearing a warm set of extreme sport coveralls and maybe not fly some days that are too cold but would love to get educated from some of the others on this list who may have enjoyed success in this realm. I'm a newbie here and have only had my Kolb for 3 months. It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK, he may also have some wisdom to share....
Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=416248#416248
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK,
he may also have some wisdom to share....
Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
Mike
Hi Mike/Kolbers:
I made 3.5 flights to Alaska. First flight was without heat of any kind
except what clothing I could put on my body to keep warm.
After the first flight I discovered an electric vest made in England for
motorcycle endurance riders called a Chili Vest. 12vdc power with a digital
electronic thermostat that worked excellent. Powered right off the aircraft
battery. Needed minimum clothing and was able to stay comfortable in the
cockpit at freezing temps.
Could have fabricated a hot water heater, but never liked the idea of
plumbing hot water into the cockpit.
Some Kolbers have fabricated hot air heaters from the air cooled Rotax.
They'll pop up here and give you some info I am sure.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
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rowedenny
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 338
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:47 pm Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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I'm liking the clothing suggestions a lot better than my cockpit radiator idea, like someone said, it's a crap pile of work to reengineer the cooling system to that degree.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
| Quote: | On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:07 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:
It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK,
he may also have some wisdom to share....
Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
Mike
Hi Mike/Kolbers:
I made 3.5 flights to Alaska. First flight was without heat of any kind
except what clothing I could put on my body to keep warm.
After the first flight I discovered an electric vest made in England for
motorcycle endurance riders called a Chili Vest. 12vdc power with a digital
electronic thermostat that worked excellent. Powered right off the aircraft
battery. Needed minimum clothing and was able to stay comfortable in the
cockpit at freezing temps.
Could have fabricated a hot water heater, but never liked the idea of
plumbing hot water into the cockpit.
Some Kolbers have fabricated hot air heaters from the air cooled Rotax.
They'll pop up here and give you some info I am sure.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:47 pm Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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As I mentioned earlier, when I had a two stroke on my Firestar, I built a cowling that captured the heat from the engine after it had made its way through the shroud. I used scat tubing to put it in the cockpit over my head. I still froze my feet, I still had to wear a coat, and I lost about 4MPH by having the back of the wind screen covered.
The "bog" or "Muck" boots are about 3 MM of neophreme, and warm enough for a couple of hours exposure without losing the ability to "feel" the rudder petals. That is just with regular socks. The vest keeps my core temps up, and if I keep my hands out of the slip stream, caused by my poor engineering of my enclosure, I don't have any problem keeping warm long enough to get all the flying that I want.
I do not consider 50 degrees to be cold enough to even hesitate when it comes to flying. Today at 40 degrees I didn't even wear my insulated bib overalls. As long as your core is warm, you will be able to enjoy your flight.
Larry
On Fri, Dec 27, 2013 at 8:47 PM, Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dennis Rowe <rowedenny(at)windstream.net (rowedenny(at)windstream.net)>
I'm liking the clothing suggestions a lot better than my cockpit radiator idea, like someone said, it's a crap pile of work to reengineer the cooling system to that degree.
Dennis "Skid" Rowe
Mk3, 690L-70, Leechburg, PA
> On Dec 27, 2013, at 8:07 PM, "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
>
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
>
>
> It's just now dawning on me, with John Hauck's experience flying up in AK,
> he may also have some wisdom to share....
>
> Thanks so much for all ideas and opinions!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Hi Mike/Kolbers:
>
> I made 3.5 flights to Alaska. First flight was without heat of any kind
> except what clothing I could put on my body to keep warm.
>
> After the first flight I discovered an electric vest made in England for
> motorcycle endurance riders called a Chili Vest. 12vdc power with a digital
> electronic thermostat that worked excellent. Powered right off the aircraft
> battery. Needed minimum clothing and was able to stay comfortable in the
> cockpit at freezing temps.
>
> Could have fabricated a hot water heater, but never liked the idea of
> plumbing hot water into the cockpit.
>
> Some Kolbers have fabricated hot air heaters from the air cooled Rotax.
> They'll pop up here and give you some info I am sure.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
>
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 7:44 am Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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mike and others
on classic, I cut the radiator hoses 3 inches ahead of the radiator, put
in some tees and run some smaller hoses down to a heater core. I picked up
the heater core from Napa, after looking through their book and finding one
that had the connections where I thought would be convenient. I built a
wire frame work on both sides of the core, one to mount a 12 volt computer
fan, and the other side to mount a 2 inch duct to deliver the warm air to
the nose cone area. with no insulation in the cabin area, and not being
100 % air tight,,, I am quite comfortable taking off in the 40 deg range
with a small jacket. flying into or away from the sun will make a
difference. when first installed, I took off in the late afternoon at 20
deg f.. after an hour, I was starting to think that I had some type of air
bubble in the system keeping it from working. when I landed it was 10 deg,
and when I opened the door, I soon realized it was working, it just
could not keep up with the heat loss, and air movement at that temperature.
I mounted the heater core in the very rear of the area behind the fuel tank.
I did not want hot water further forward in the cabin area to prevent burns
in an accident. plus keeping the heater hoses filled with water short,
kept the weight down.
boyd Y
mkiii c
utah
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lownslow
Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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thanks all for your replies
I love this list already--nice, helpful folks and I'm honored to be a part of it
very helpful inputs from all and I'm grateful
confirms my thoughts about trying the clothing route first
thanks to John and others for the recommendation on the chili vest--sounds great and I will investigate this and the other recommendations
thanks!
Mike
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Dennis Kirby
Joined: 05 Dec 2013
Posts: 35
Location: Albuquerque, NM
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:51 am Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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Larry Cottrell wrote:
<< I'm not sure how cold is too cold? ... dressing properly is a whole lot easier than all the engineering you would have to do. Larry >>
Kolb Friends -
I hafta agree with Larry, in that dressing warmly is much easier than plumbing heat into your Kolb cockpit.
Here in the higher elevations of northern New Mexico, I am happy to report that I fly my Mark-3 every month of the year, despite the fact that temps get well below freezing from Nov thru March. I do not have a heater. Instead, I just wear lots of layers - double socks, long johns, scarf, wool cap, ski gloves, etc. My cockpit is semi-open, so whatever the ambient temperature is outside at altitude, that's what's in the cockpit. At least I'm out of the wind - that helps.
I've flown in single-digit temps (degrees F), and am OK for about an hour. But that's the duration I usually fly, as most of my winter flights are just local.
What is important though, is to have your engine warm enough to start on cold days. I have had a few occasions below 20 degrees where my 912 would not start. To remedy this, I leave a 40-watt bulb tucked under the engine all winter long, between flights. I keep a blanket over the engine to keep the heat in. So now, when I go out to fly in winter, the Rotax starts right up!
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul, in
Sandia Park, NM
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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What is important though, is to have your engine warm enough to start on
cold days. I have had a few occasions below 20 degrees where my 912 would
not start. To remedy this, I leave a 40-watt bulb tucked under the engine
all winter long, between flights. I keep a blanket over the engine to keep
the heat in. So now, when I go out to fly in winter, the Rotax starts right
up!
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul, in
Sandia Park, NM
Dennis K/Kolbers:
I think the key to starting both 2 strokes and 4 stroke Rotax engines is
following the factory recommended procedure and having a "hot" battery.
Never had a problem starting any of my cold 912 series engines.
-Throttle closed.
-Enricher full on.
-Battery fully charged to turn the engine over at or above 200 rpm.
Helps to have good spark plugs and fresh fuel.
I'm ready to fly, but the weather at hauck's holler isn't. Just bumped 40F
at noon today. Outlook is more of and colder temps for the next week.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:02 am Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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I have read both of your thoughts and agree with both of them, however Dennis with his light bulb keeps the oil warm, and that would place less stress on the engine and the parts. It wouldn't take much to either turn the light on before you intend to fly, or put it on a timer to come on sometime in the night and go off in the morning.
I have kept a "maintenance charger" on my battery this winter, and while it had a lot of poop, it still took three tries and a long time grinding to get mine to fire the last time I flew. Of course it is a bit colder here than in Ala.
Larry
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 11:41 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
What is important though, is to have your engine warm enough to start on
cold days. I have had a few occasions below 20 degrees where my 912 would
not start. To remedy this, I leave a 40-watt bulb tucked under the engine
all winter long, between flights. I keep a blanket over the engine to keep
the heat in. So now, when I go out to fly in winter, the Rotax starts right
up!
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul, in
Sandia Park, NM
Dennis K/Kolbers:
I think the key to starting both 2 strokes and 4 stroke Rotax engines is
following the factory recommended procedure and having a "hot" battery.
Never had a problem starting any of my cold 912 series engines.
-Throttle closed.
-Enricher full on.
-Battery fully charged to turn the engine over at or above 200 rpm.
Helps to have good spark plugs and fresh fuel.
I'm ready to fly, but the weather at hauck's holler isn't. Just bumped 40F
at noon today. Outlook is more of and colder temps for the next week.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 12:44 pm Post subject: Kolb Firestar Winter storage |
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I've flown a few places north of Alabama. 
I agree with a warm engine and a hot battery.
1961, Bad Tolz, Germany, my Volvo battery was not strong enough to crank the engine in near zero conditions. A tea kettle of hot water poured over the battery that was mounted in the middle high on the firewall, was enough to wake it up and give me a start.
A lot of Rotax folks have difficulty starting in cool weather because that don't follow the Rotax recommended start sequence.
High of 42F here. We are having a heat wave.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Cottrell
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2014 1:02 PM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage
I have read both of your thoughts and agree with both of them, however Dennis with his light bulb keeps the oil warm, and that would place less stress on the engine and the parts. It wouldn't take much to either turn the light on before you intend to fly, or put it on a timer to come on sometime in the night and go off in the morning.
I have kept a "maintenance charger" on my battery this winter, and while it had a lot of poop, it still took three tries and a long time grinding to get mine to fire the last time I flew. Of course it is a bit colder here than in Ala.
Larry
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 11:41 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
What is important though, is to have your engine warm enough to start on
cold days. I have had a few occasions below 20 degrees where my 912 would
not start. To remedy this, I leave a 40-watt bulb tucked under the engine
all winter long, between flights. I keep a blanket over the engine to keep
the heat in. So now, when I go out to fly in winter, the Rotax starts right
up!
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul, in
Sandia Park, NM
Dennis K/Kolbers:
I think the key to starting both 2 strokes and 4 stroke Rotax engines is
following the factory recommended procedure and having a "hot" battery.
Never had a problem starting any of my cold 912 series engines.
-Throttle closed.
-Enricher full on.
-Battery fully charged to turn the engine over at or above 200 rpm.
Helps to have good spark plugs and fresh fuel.
I'm ready to fly, but the weather at hauck's holler isn't. Just bumped 40F
at noon today. Outlook is more of and colder temps for the next week.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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