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problem firestar

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dany88

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 25

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:38 am Post subject: problem firestar

It is normal that the left wing of this movement? 

the right wing makes him slightly. 

I can fly like that? 

Today I made â€‹â€‹my second flight and fly the beautiful state kolb firestar, 

just to close the wings I noticed this movement.

watch the video 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVMA3QHOf8E&feature=youtu.be

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tombaisley

Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Posts: 30
Location: afton,ny

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: Re: problem firestar

Do not fly that airplane.

You need to look up inside the wing to determine why that is loose.

beauford173(at)tampabay.r
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:22 am Post subject: problem firestar

Dany:



NO....   Definitely NOT normal.....  Possibly very dangerous.



 I would NOT fly it until the wing covering is opened and the inside structure is inspected....  BOTH wings.

There can be no movement in this structure.  Very important.



Beauford

FF-076

Brandon FL



--

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:20 pm Post subject: problem firestar

At 08:38 AM 1/25/2014 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



It is normal that the left wing of this movement? 

the right wing makes him slightly. 

I can fly like that? 

Today I made â€‹â€‹my second flight and fly the beautiful state kolb firestar, 

just to close the wings I noticed this movement.

watch the video 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVMA3QHOf8E&feature=youtu.be




	


The clevis swivel and pivot bolt looked good.  Could not see if the wing 

link to the knuckle was moving in and out of the wing.  Fold the wing and 

rest the leading edge (front corner) on the floor.  Remove the vertical bolt 

that passes through the swivel clevis and the knuckle.  Move the top of the 

wing at the swivel away from the knuckle. With your hand grasp the joint 

protruding from the wing and give it a good shake.  From this you should be 

able to determine if the movement is from inside the wing.



It may be that the compression strut is loose inside the alignment tube that 

is welded to the inner most steel rib.  A small hole cut into the bottom of 

the wing will expose this area.



As a safety issue, turn the swivel over so the bolt head through the knuckle 

is up and the nut is down.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

dany88

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 25

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:26 am Post subject: Re: problem firestar

Here are two videos I made ... the first show faulty movement the second shows that the structure and ok. So according to me and only to firmly attach the bolts of the structure, perhaps through the years were slightly loose. since I disassembled everything, replace the main bolt with a self-locking so I'm sure you do not loose any more. 

What do you think?



http://youtu.be/MHIv3fZPi1o



http://youtu.be/jMeoG_fxIXA

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:22 am Post subject: problem firestar

dany88



if the movement is between the rear wing attach fitting and the tube it goes 

into, in the wing...  the first thing I would is to prime the bare metal... 

then apply enough coats of paint till is is a tight fit.   then I would take 

a small bit of silicone rubber and with a stick or q tip , put a thin film 

on the inside of the wing tube, and also on the outside of the steel 

fitting,   slide the steel fitting in and bolt in place.



on the swivel fitting that fits on the airframe.   also prime and paint, 

then install a washer and castle nut with a cotter pin.  it should be tight 

enough  so there is no excess movement, but loose enough to allow it to turn 

when you fold the wing.  check the cotter pin every time you fly.



the drag strut inside the wing should be solid with no movement.



boyd



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


"dany88" <danielecafaro(at)alice.it>



Here are two videos I made ... the first show faulty movement the second 

shows that the structure and ok. So according to me and only to firmly 

attach the bolts of the structure, 

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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: problem firestar

I had a similar problem with excessive clearances in the swivel joints on my 

FireFly.



You can see how I fixed it at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly128.html



To remove the excessive clearance between the part in the wing and the socket, 

I would coat inside of the socket and the outside of the swivel end with J-B 

Weld.  Then slide it into place and line up the bolt hole and put the bolt 

into place.  J-B Weld is an iron particle filled epoxy that is very strong.  

When it sets up there should be no play between the swivel end and the socket.



Information about J-B Weld can be found at: http://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-weld/



Jack B Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



........................................................................................

At 03:26 AM 1/26/2014 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Here are two videos I made ... the first show faulty movement the second 

shows that the structure and ok. So according to me and only to firmly 
	


attach the bolts of the structure, perhaps through the years were slightly 

loose. since I disassembled everything, replace the main bolt with a 

self-locking so I'm sure you do not loose any more. 

 	  Quote: 	
		  What do you think?



http://youtu.be/MHIv3fZPi1o



http://youtu.be/jMeoG_fxIXA

dany88

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 25

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:53 am Post subject: Re: problem firestar

do not understand how to go about the main bolt. 

The bushings are brass?

dany88

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 25

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:47 am Post subject: Re: problem firestar

Do you have any idea how I can remove this motion from the hole of the fork to the main pivot?

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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:52 am Post subject: problem firestar

It's the hole too big? On Jan 27, 2014 12:49 PM, "dany88" <danielecafaro(at)alice.it (danielecafaro(at)alice.it)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "dany88" <danielecafaro(at)alice.it (danielecafaro(at)alice.it)>

 

 Do you have any idea how I can remove this motion from the hole of the fork to the main pivot? 

 

 

 

 

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dany88

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 25

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: problem firestar

the hole is slightly larger, in practice if witcher well the bolt movement disappears, but I'm afraid that by folding the wings and rub the two walls over time can cause damage

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: problem firestar

Been thinking,,, over here we have plastic 1 gallon milk bottles ....  If you cut some o of the very thin plastic from a milk bottle, or a thin plastic Pepsi or coke bottle and put between the universal joint and the frame,,, and under the washer on the inside of the universal,,,,  then when it turns when you fold the wings.  It should cause no wear.  

Boyd On Jan 27, 2014 1:52 PM, "dany88" <danielecafaro(at)alice.it (danielecafaro(at)alice.it)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "dany88" <danielecafaro(at)alice.it (danielecafaro(at)alice.it)>

 

 the hole is slightly larger, in practice if witcher well the bolt movement disappears, but I'm afraid that by folding the wings and rub the two walls over time can cause damage

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=417697#417697

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:29 pm Post subject: problem firestar

Yes, I used very thin brass shim stock.  This will not remove all of the 

wear because the bolt and hole both wear.  It is never good for steel to 

wear on steel.  In this case there is wear on the bolt too.  The shim stock 

can remove the wear from the hole but can not remove the wear from the 

bolt.



That is why I proposed the second method to fix the problem.  By tapering 

the hole through the clevis and compressing and neoprene "O" ring, one can 

compress into the wear on the bolt.  In doing so the bolt and the clevis 

hole do not touch and there is no further wear.  The taper can easily be 

formed by using a small grinding wheel mounted in a Dremel tool.  See 

http://www.dremel.com/en-us/tools/Pages/CategoryProducts.aspx?catid 13

If you are concerned about wear on the back side of the clevis place a thin 

brass shim stock washer between the clevis and the flange on the fuselage 

cage.  Do not over tighten and use some thick grease lubricant on the "O" 

ring and the washer. 



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



.....................................................................

At 02:53 AM 1/27/2014 -0800, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



do not understand how to go about the main bolt. 

The bushings are brass?

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:44 am Post subject: problem firestar

Boyd,



Checked out possibilities at McMaster Carr.  (http://www.mcmaster.com)



Looked at Teflon washers.  Part number 95630A505, Low-Friction PTFE Flat 

Washer, 1/2" Screw Size, 1.5" OD, .017"-.023" Thick Packages of 10 for 

$15.71



And sheets.  One side is etched for bonding with adhesive. The other side 

has a smooth finish.  Part number 8711K91,  Sheets Made with Teflon® PTFE, 

Adhesive Ready, .015" Thick, 6" x 6" $7.81 per sheet



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2014 15:19:26 -0700

From: B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>



Been thinking,,, over here we have plastic 1 gallon milk bottles ....  If 

you cut some o of the very thin plastic from a milk bottle, or a thin 

plastic Pepsi or coke bottle and put between the universal joint and the 

frame,,, and under the washer on the inside of the universal,,,,  then when 

it turns when you fold the wings.  It should cause no wear.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:55 am Post subject: problem Firestar

Kolbers:



 I don't think Homer Kolb intended anything between the universal and the

airframe, especially paint, plastic washers, and "o" rings, especially

paint.  The end of the universal should be clean as well as the contact

point on the airframe, with a light coat of grease to prevent rust and

assist in rotation during wing fold.



Normally during welding the universal joints, the flat end piece warps a

bit.  When I had a problem with a loose joint on an early Kolb I built, I

discovered the paint and primer had worn off after my initial adjustment and

installation, and the end of the universal was slightly domed/convex.  I

removed it, got the appropriate tools, whacked it a couple times creating a

slightly concave end piece.  Now I had two pieces that mated on flat

surfaces.  Next I used a combination of thick (1/16") and thin (1/32") AN

washers to adjust out the slop that I got when the castellated nut was lined

up for the cotter pin.  You know how that works.  One slot is too tight and

the next is too loose.  I have a lot of hours, compared to most Kolbs, on my

MKIII, and I have snug rear attach points on my wings that will rotate

without causing any damage to wing or airframe.  A lot of force can be

applied to these parts when rotating the wing if the connection is too

tight.



I personally would not use plastic or rubber to snug up these connections.

My personal opinion only.  Don't recommend anyone else doing it the way I

did, but my way has proven to work well over many hours and many years.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:27 am Post subject: problem Firestar

Kolbers:



My previous post reminded me of another problem I encountered about 20 years

ago with my MKIII and my first 912 installation on that aircraft.  As usual,

I painted the engine mount angle aluminum with plenty primer and paint to

make it look good.  The mistake I made was not to mask off the small area

where the mounts contacted the bosses on the engine case.  Didn't take long

for vibration to erode the paint and primer causing the four engine mount

bolts to loosen up.



When I swapped the 912ul for a 912uls I alodined the aluminum angle engine

mounts.  No more problems.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

dany88

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 25

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:56 am Post subject: Re: problem firestar

Here is a brass plate cutout thin now. 

Some photos of the work done for painting

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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:37 am Post subject: problem Firestar

John,



I do not believe Homer Kolb intended one to tighten the wing universal 

assembly bolts after one unfolds the wing prior to flying as you do.



At 200+ hours mine were very loose and worn.  I repaired them so that I can 

fold the wing as Homer intended without using a wrench to untighten bolts.



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

At 09:55 AM 1/29/2014 -0600, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Kolbers:



 I don't think Homer Kolb intended anything between the universal and the

airframe, especially paint, plastic washers, and "o" rings, especially

paint.  The end of the universal should be clean as well as the contact

point on the airframe, with a light coat of grease to prevent rust and

assist in rotation during wing fold.



................................................
	




 	  Quote: 	
		  I personally would not use plastic or rubber to snug up these connections.

My personal opinion only.  Don't recommend anyone else doing it the way I

did, but my way has proven to work well over many hours and many years.

dany88

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:24 am Post subject: Re: problem firestar

Work performed perfectly, the joint is not more movement, as you can see from this video   http://youtu.be/AHbFpa_Q9NQ

I am attaching a few pictures

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dany88

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:36 am Post subject: Re: problem firestar

How do I replace the main landing  gear? 

I unscrewed the bolt near the hub and the bolt inside the fuselage, but not sfilla the bar of aluminum. 

Why? 

how can I do?



I enclose a photo

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