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Brakes Not holding

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yellowbird1

Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 88

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:49 pm Post subject: Brakes Not holding

I’m having problems with my brakes not holding on my MKIII Xtra with a 912 80ph Rotax. They system is dual hydraulic Matco brakes. At first the calipers weren’t extending and retracting and I noticed that they were gunned up so I cleaned them with WD40, a green scrubby, and a tooth brush. Now they seem to be working, at least the pistons move in and back out slightly as they self adjust.  The pads and disks don’t appear to be warped and the pads still have a good amount of wear on them. I have also bled them. As I didn’t know any better at the time I bled them in the same manner as car brakes. I have taken the wheel off and removed the disk and made sure the pistons were working properly. There doesn’t seem to be any air in the lines.

Could I have gotten WD40 on the pads? I suppose that is possible.

They seem to work ok on the pre-purchase flight.  The aircraft was trailered to it’s current home.

Any suggestions would be most helpful.



Thanks in Advance,

Brad

N952DK

_________________
Brad Nation,
Albuquerque, NM
MK3 Xtra

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:42 pm Post subject: Brakes Not holding

Current home is where?

do not archive



On Jan 30, 2014, at 7:48 PM, Brad Nation wrote:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I’m having problems with my brakes not holding on my MKIII Xtra with a 912 80ph Rotax. They system is dual hydraulic Matco brakes. At first the calipers weren’t extending and retracting and I noticed that they were gunned up so I cleaned them with WD40, a green scrubby, and a tooth brush. Now they seem to be working, at least the pistons move in and back out slightly as they self adjust.  The pads and disks don’t appear to be warped and the pads still have a good amount of wear on them. I have also bled them. As I didn’t know any better at the time I bled them in the same manner as car brakes. I have taken the wheel off and removed the disk and made sure the pistons were working properly. There doesn’t seem to be any air in the lines.

 Could I have gotten WD40 on the pads? I suppose that is possible.

 They seem to work ok on the pre-purchase flight.  The aircraft was trailered to it’s current home.

 Any suggestions would be most helpful.

 

 Thanks in Advance,

 Brad

 N952DK

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:25 pm Post subject: Brakes Not holding

Brad- WD-40 will creep everywhere.  Get a couple of cans of Brake Kleen from the auto parts store and thoroughly hose them down.  It's a common, and cheap, brake parts de-greaser.  Works great.



                                                                        Bill Sullivan





        From: Brad Nation <nationcap(at)comcast.net>

 To: Kolb-list <kolb-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2014 7:48 PM

 Subject: Brakes Not holding

  

 

--> Kolb-List message posted by: Brad Nation <nationcap(at)comcast.net (nationcap(at)comcast.net)>



Iâ€™m having problems with my brakes not holding on my MKIII Xtra with a 912 80ph Rotax. They system is dual hydraulic Matco brakes. At first the calipers werenâ€™t extending and retracting and I noticed that they were gunned up so I cleaned them with WD40, a green  scrubby, and a tooth brush. Now they seem to be working, at least the pistons move in and back out slightly as they self adjust.  The pads and disks donâ€™t appear to be warped and the pads still have a good amount of wear on them. I have also bled them. As I didnâ€™t know any better at the time I bled them in the same manner as car brakes. I have taken the wheel off and removed the disk and made sure the pistons were working properly. There doesnâ€™t seem to be any air in the lines.

Could I have gotten WD40 on the pads? I suppose that is possible.

They seem to work ok on the pre-purchase flight.  The aircraft was trailered to itâ€™s current home.

Any suggestions would be most helpful.



Than========================http://www.matronics.com/Navigatsp;              - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

=   -->

yellowbird1

Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 88

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:57 pm Post subject: Brakes Not holding

Albuquerque, NM



Sent from my iPad



Brad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jan 30, 2014, at 20:42, kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Current home is where?

 do not archive

 

> On Jan 30, 2014, at 7:48 PM, Brad Nation wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Iâ€™m having problems with my brakes not holding on my MKIII Xtra with a 912 80ph Rotax. They system is dual hydraulic Matco brakes. At first the calipers werenâ€™t extending and retracting and I noticed that they were gunned up so I cleaned them with WD40, a green scrubby, and a tooth brush. Now they seem to be working, at least the pistons move in and back out slightly as they self adjust.  The pads and disks donâ€™t appear to be warped and the pads still have a good amount of wear on them. I have also bled them. As I didnâ€™t know any better at the time I bled them in the same manner as car brakes. I have taken the wheel off and removed the disk and made sure the pistons were working properly. There doesnâ€™t seem to be any air in the lines.

> Could I have gotten WD40 on the pads? I suppose that is possible.

> They seem to work ok on the pre-purchase flight.  The aircraft was trailered to itâ€™s current home.

> Any suggestions would be most helpful.

> 

> Thanks in Advance,

> Brad

> N952DK

_________________
Brad Nation,
Albuquerque, NM
MK3 Xtra

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:21 am Post subject: Brakes Not holding

I don't know but I don't think wd40 was a good idea.  You may be able to clean things with spray on brake parts cleaner.  Then drag your brakes during a high speed taxi

  Don't let the cleaner get into the o rings of the caliper,  only the pass even if you have to remove them. 

Boyd

 Do not archive  [quote][b]

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:49 am Post subject: Brakes Not holding

Brad, There are different fixes depending on how your Matco brake calipers are designed.Do they have pins and are mounted such that the caliper slides on the pins in order that both pads contact the disk? If that is the case, use a little, a very little, bit of grease on the pins and make sure the caliper moves easily on them.

 If it is the model that mounts the caliper to the mount plate such that the caliper does not move, then you have to shim the caliper so that the stationary pad just touches the disk. If it is too far away, and we're talking thousandths of an inch, the mounting bracket and the disk have to bend in order to get both pads in contact with the disk. If this is the type of caliper and mount you have I would humbly suggest that you start saving for a new set of brakes. If you use your brakes a lot it does not take too many applications before they are once again out of adjustment and you have to go through the shimming process again.

 



Rick Girard

do not archive



On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 2:20 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com (byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

I don't know but I don't think wd40 was a good idea.  You may be able to clean things with spray on brake parts cleaner.  Then drag your brakes during a high speed taxi

   Don't let the cleaner get into the o rings of the caliper,  only the pass even if you have to remove them. 

Boyd

 Do not archive   	  Quote: 	
		  



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:16 pm Post subject: Brakes Not holding

Matcos float, both sides.

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 [quote]  [b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: Brakes Not holding

Maybe they no longer make that model, John, but the Mk IIIC/X, the "Plane from Hell", had rigid calipers, and the name was cast into them. I made a replacement caliper for another list member that were the same so I know they made more than one set of them. 



Rick

do not archive



On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 3:16 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Matcos float, both sides. 

 

john h 

mkIII

Titus, Alabama 

  	  Quote: 	
		    



get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote][b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

yellowbird1

Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 88

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:14 pm Post subject: Brakes Not holding

The float

Sent from my iPad

Brad

[quote] On Jan 31, 2014, at 9:48, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 Brad, There are different fixes depending on how your Matco brake calipers are designed.

 Do they have pins and are mounted such that the caliper slides on the pins in order that both pads contact the disk? If that is the case, use a little, a very little, bit of grease on the pins and make sure the caliper moves easily on them.

 If it is the model that mounts the caliper to the mount plate such that the caliper does not move, then you have to shim the caliper so that the stationary pad just touches the disk. If it is too far away, and we're talking thousandths of an inch, the mounting bracket and the disk have to bend in order to get both pads in contact with the disk. If this is the type of caliper and mount you have I would humbly suggest that you start saving for a new set of brakes. If you use your brakes a lot it does not take too many applications before they are once again out of adjustment and you have to go through the shimming process again.

 Rick Girard

 do not archive

> On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 2:20 AM, B Young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know but I don't think wd40 was a good idea.  You may be able to clean things with spray on brake parts cleaner.  Then drag your brakes during a high speed taxi

> Don't let the cleaner get into the o rings of the caliper,  only the pass even if you have to remove them.

> 

> Boyd

> Do not archive

> 

> 

> 

> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

> tp://forums.matronics.com

> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

> 

 -- 

 Zulu Delta

 Mk IIIC

 Thanks, Homer GBYM

 It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy

_________________
Brad Nation,
Albuquerque, NM
MK3 Xtra

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 7:18 am Post subject: Brakes Not holding

Rick, John, et al,



  Re: the caliper no longer made (which you machined for me, thank you, btw);  I'm 

pretty sure it is a floating caliper.

Although you are correct, it is no longer made, I believe the same company under a different name,

Matco, still makes essentially, or close to, the same model and it floats, too.

Mike Welch



Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 21:45:54 -0600

Subject: Re: Brakes Not holding

From: aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com



Maybe they no longer make that model, John, but the Mk IIIC/X, the "Plane from Hell", had rigid calipers, and the name was cast into them. I made a replacement caliper for another list member that were the same so I know they made more than one set of them. 



Rick

do not archive



On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 3:16 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

Matcos float, both sides. 

 

john h 

mkIII

Titus, Alabama 

  	  Quote: 	
		    


get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


	


	




-- 

Zulu Delta

Mk IIIC

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.

   - Groucho Marx

 

  [quote]


===========

arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

===========

http://forums.matronics.com

===========

="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===========


[b]

Rex Rodebush

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Brakes Not holding

I have the same problem with poor braking.  I ordered new wheels and brakes from Matco about 2 weeks ago.  They have beefed up the wheel thickness because of some cracking problems.  They also increased the caliper piston area about 30%.  I also ordered a new set of brake pedals from Travis.  They have a much higher mechanical advantage than the old design.  (My Xtra was ordered about 13-14 years ago).



Hopefully I'll have good brakes when all is installed.

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:57 pm Post subject: Brakes Not holding

 	  Quote: 	
		   If that is the case, use a little, a very little, bit of grease on the

pins and make sure the caliper moves easily on them.
	




I doubt that you will get your brakes really hot, but to be on the safe side

there exists special high temp grease for lubing brake parts.

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

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