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rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:44 pm Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the wires back to the panel can be as long as needed.



in friendship



Rowland



| Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson

klinefelter.kevin(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:59 pm Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

I put mine in the stbd wing root area. Below the fuel elbow. So it's never exposed to the sun, outside the cockpit, opposite the exhaust. Oh, and not exactly sticking out in the breeze creating drag. The wires run under the passenger window to the panel.

Seems to work well...

Kevin



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Feb 22, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the wires back to the panel can be as long as needed.

 

 in friendship

 

 Rowland

 

 | Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

 | <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

 | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

 | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:56 pm Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

Rowland,



I used a small plastic “P” clip to connect it to the underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS 914 Installation Manual, page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same grommet as the Wastegate Cable.



I will be working on the Europa tomorrow.  With any luck I’ll remember to take a picture for you.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com

On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> wrote:






I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the wires back to the panel can be as long as needed.



in friendship



Rowland



| Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

| <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

| Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

| pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson

alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:30 am Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

In the air duct well forward of the radiators



Alan

On 23 Feb 2014, at 02:55, Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Rowland,

 

 I used a small plastic “P” clip to connect it to the underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS 914 Installation Manual, page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same grommet as the Wastegate Cable.

 

 I will be working on the Europa tomorrow.  With any luck I’ll remember to take a picture for you.

 

 Blue skies & tailwinds,

 Bob Borger

 Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).

 Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

 Corinth, TX  76208-5331

 Cel: 817-992-1117

 rlborger(at)mac.com

 

 

 On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the wires back to the panel can be as long as needed.

 

 in friendship

 

 Rowland

 

 | Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

 | <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>            http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

 | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

 | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:10 am Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor.


	


Rowland,



How about inside an airvent?  Cessna have had them there for years.



Regards

Kingsley

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:16 am Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

Makes sense Kingsley,

btw when are you coming to UK? You won't forget where we are will you? (even if you did camp indoors{{!

Graham





        From: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, 23 February 2014, 9:09

 Subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?

  

 

--> Europa-List  message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)>



 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor.


	


Rowland,



How about inside an airvent?  ="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http:   --> h                    &nbsphref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www=======================

 

 

  

 [quote][b]

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:04 am Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air 

pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher 

temp than true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox 

temp sensor in my air plenum and also an OAT sensor in the 

wing root just in front of the flap control slot and the 

two give significantly different temps once the plane is 

flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C. 

Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ



On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 08:31:51 +0000

  Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

<alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk>

 

 In the air duct well forward of the radiators

 

 Alan

 On 23 Feb 2014, at 02:55, Robert Borger 

<rlborger(at)mac.com> wrote:

 

> 

><rlborger(at)mac.com>

> 

> Rowland,

> 

> I used a small plastic “P” clip to connect it to the 

>underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS 914 Installation Manual, 

>page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same 

>grommet as the Wastegate Cable.

> 

> I will be working on the Europa tomorrow.  With any luck 

>I’ll remember to take a picture for you.

> 

> Blue skies & tailwinds,

> Bob Borger

> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).

> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 

>EXP

> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

> Corinth, TX  76208-5331

> Cel: 817-992-1117

> rlborger(at)mac.com

> 

> 

> On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson 

><rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

><rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>

> 

> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature 

>(OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct 

>sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and 

>not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does 

>anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less 

>than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the 

>wires back to the panel can be as long as needed.

> 

> in friendship

> 

> Rowland

> 

> | Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' 

>...

> | <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> 

>           http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland 

>Carson

> | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

 

 

 

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Admin.

alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:36 am Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

Mine's in the air duct before the radiators. 



Not sure if there is as much pressurisation as in the carb air intake. 



If the airfield ever dries out I'll be in a position of being able to get off the ground and find out:-(



Alan



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 23 Feb 2014, at 12:04, "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher temp than true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox temp sensor in my air plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing root just in front of the flap control slot and the two give significantly different temps once the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ

 

 On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 08:31:51 +0000

 Alan Burrill <alanb(at)dpy01.co.uk> wrote:

> 

> In the air duct well forward of the radiators

> Alan

>> On 23 Feb 2014, at 02:55, Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> wrote:

>> 

>> Rowland,

>> I used a small plastic â€œPâ€ clip to connect it to the underside of the CD7 (CBM-XS 914 Installation Manual, page 4-6) with the wiring passing through the same grommet as the Wastegate Cable.

>> I will be working on the Europa tomorrow.  With any luck Iâ€™ll remember to take a picture for you.

>> Blue skies & tailwinds,

>> Bob Borger

>> Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).

>> Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

>> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.

>> Corinth, TX  76208-5331

>> Cel: 817-992-1117

>> rlborger(at)mac.com

>> On Feb 22, 2014, at 4:44 PM, Rowland Carson <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>> 

>> I'm wondering where to put my outside air temperature (OAT) sensor. Obviously it doesn't want to be in direct sunlight (although PA28s seem to think that's OK), and not anywhere on the belly downstream of the exhaust. Does anyone have a good suggestion for it? It's tiny, less than thumbnail size, so doesn't need much room, and the wires back to the panel can be as long as needed.

>> in friendship

>> Rowland

>> | Rowland Carson          ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...

>> | <rowlandcarson(at)gmail.com>           http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk

>> | Skype, Twitter: rowland_carson      Facebook: Rowland Carson

>> | pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/rowlandcarson

> Un/Subscription,

> Forums!

> Admin.

nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

If I remember correctly, isn't 'DJ powered by a 914? If so, the plenum 

will be fed with heat sinked (sunk?) air fresh from a blisteringly hot 

turbo. Once Mr. Boyle has added his two cents, I'm surprised that the 

difference between plenum and OAT is only 8c!



Nigel



On 23/02/2014 12:04, David Joyce wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>

 Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air 

 pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher temp than 

 true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox temp sensor in my air 

 plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing root just in front of the 

 flap control slot and the two give significantly different temps once 

 the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C. 

 Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ

ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

Unless it has an intercooler which it hasn't !

Bob H G-PTAG



--

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 792

Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?

Hi Group



I put mine between the port stabilator and fuse:

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=78342



Ron Parigoris

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:07 am Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

Rowland

I put it inside the intake of the Rotax cylinder cooling baffle. It works fine in flight but not on the ground where it is greatly influenced by the engine temperature.

BTW this shows that the Rotax cooling baffle is not effective at all for cylinder cooling while on the ground.

Regards

Remi

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:16 am Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

Nigel, Yes I have a 914' but I am talking about  the space 

fed directly from a NACA inlet which gathers the air 

before it enters the turbo. Like all the cowling inlets it 

will be pressurised by the slipstream/propwash No doubt 

post turbo the temperature will be higher still - which is 

why 914s don't need carb icing protection.

      Regards, David



On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 23:29:44 +0000

  "nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk" 

<nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

"nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk" 

<nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk>

 

 If I remember correctly, isn't 'DJ powered by a 914? If 

so, the plenum will be fed with heat sinked (sunk?) air 

fresh from a blisteringly hot turbo. Once Mr. Boyle has 

added his two cents, I'm surprised that the difference 

between plenum and OAT is only 8c!

 

 Nigel

 

 On 23/02/2014 12:04, David Joyce wrote:

> 

><davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>

> Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air 

>pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher 

>temp than true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox 

>temp sensor in my air plenum and also an OAT sensor in 

>the wing root just in front of the flap control slot and 

>the two give significantly different temps once the plane 

>is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 8C. 

>Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ

>

 

 

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nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:44 am Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

Ahh! wrong plenum. That makes more sense as I would expect induction air 

downstream of the turbo to be in the high 70's C.

Thanks for the clarification.

Nigel



On 24/02/2014 09:16, David Joyce wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>



 Nigel, Yes I have a 914' but I am talking about  the space fed 

 directly from a NACA inlet which gathers the air before it enters the 

 turbo. Like all the cowling inlets it will be pressurised by the 

 slipstream/propwash No doubt post turbo the temperature will be higher 

 still - which is why 914s don't need carb icing protection.

      Regards, David



 On Sun, 23 Feb 2014 23:29:44 +0000

  "nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk" <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:

> 

> <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk>

>

> If I remember correctly, isn't 'DJ powered by a 914? If so, the 

> plenum will be fed with heat sinked (sunk?) air fresh from a 

> blisteringly hot turbo. Once Mr. Boyle has added his two cents, I'm 

> surprised that the difference between plenum and OAT is only 8c!

>

> Nigel

>

> On 23/02/2014 12:04, David Joyce wrote:

>> 

>> <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk>

>>

>>

>> Alan & rowland, problem with anywhere subject to ram air 

>> pressurization is that it will give an appreciably higher temp than 

>> true OAT.(Boyle & his law). I have an airbox temp sensor in my air 

>> plenum and also an OAT sensor in the wing root just in front of the 

>> flap control slot and the two give significantly different temps 

>> once the plane is flying, if I remember rightly by something like 

>> 8C. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ

>>

> Un/Subscription,

> Forums!

> Admin.

>

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Some notes on my mistakes:

  

 OAT probe in either the 914 or radiator metal duct work needs an insulator  as the ducts warm up and on the second flight and is really terrible until at  altitude.  If insulated, it is down right tollerable in the duct shortly  after engine start.

  

 I have put them in the back of the wing fillet gap by the flap, seen them  in the gap between the stab and fuselage, in the tail cone trim hole, sticking  out the belly (Dynon probe style stuck out of the bottom of the aircraft clear  of exhausted air), even the 912 fiberglass plenum, and they all  worked.

  

 Some magnatometers require wire to the OAT to be installed (Dynon type) so  plan your magnatometer and OAT sensor positions to prevent 20 feet of wire  running.  With the magnetometer behind the baggage bulkhead, one was put in  the hole behind the flap bracket (no cover).  Do plan for flap  movement.  Another mag was put under the seat, and the probe put under the  right cheek of the passenger.  It worked provided your passenger does not  have an iron bottom.

  

 If you put your Dynon magnetometer in the overhead, consider an overhead  vent with the OAT in it.  If in a cold climate, when the duct is shut  off, you get cockpit temp, so plan accordingly. 

  

 Just my two cents.

 Bud 

  

  

 [quote]   ---

trevord

Joined: 10 Jul 2018
Posts: 35
Location: Auckland

Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?

Has anyone considered the wheel well ?



This space is out of the sun, there is lots of room and the wall I have inserted to stop mud going into the lower fuselage is flat on my aircraft, so perfect for mounting things to it by simply drilling a hole.



I have to install several OAT senders due to installing two uAvionix AV30s which each require a separate OAT sender. Plus there is a third OAT sender for the Kanardia Airspeed indicator to give TAS.   



Would stray exhaust really be a problem here ?



Regards

Trevor

_________________
Trevor

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:09 pm Post subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?

I am with Kingsley - subject to you having a large/deep enough vent

_________________
46

brian.davies44(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:40 am Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

I tried that location and the temperature went up significantly when I ran

the engine. I switched to the side air vent and that was perfect.



Brian Davies



--

budyerly@msn.com

Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Florida USA

Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 6:47 pm Post subject: where to put OAT sensor?

Trevor,



My opinion is don't install it on the cowl itself as it is just another thing to slow down cowl removal.  Keep it out of direct sunlight if you can.

As for the wheel well:

In the event of a tire failure or God Forbid a gear up landing, damage is done in the well.  

I tend to stay away from directly behind the XS cowl exit.  Just avoiding the cowl exit air.

The wheel well is a nasty hole for dirt and debris.  In my opinion it will be slightly warmer than true outside air. (Disclaimer: I have no experience with the actual temperatures in the wheel well.)   



I've assisted clients in putting the OAT in several places.

1.  My favorite is the inlet for the turbo duct.  Radiator duct is a little too warm unless right up front.

	The inlet duct for the Turbo on the 914 metal shelf isn't bad.  (Use caution and note on the ground it gets pretty warm.  Works fine in flight provided it is on the outer most part of the duct and suspended in the stream.)

	I have 12AY's OAT in the 914 inlet suspended on a short bolt/spacer held by an Adel Clamp from the metal air dam.  Works fine.  (GRT and Blue Mtn.)



2.  912S located in the inlet attached to the airbox.  (GRT)  (Always make sure you mount it for an easy airbox removal or engine removal to facilitate maintenance.)



3.  Cockpit inlet ducts of course if there is room as folks have said.  Nice and close to the panel normally, so a short run.  Dependent on inlet design.  (Both Dynon's)



4.  In the starboard wing root back before the flap tube just forward of the flap and behind the aft socket was popular for a while.  We mounted it carefully to allow for the aux tank.  (Dynon and GRT)

5.  In the closeout for the Stabilator.  (Caution not to impact the stab of course.)  (Dynon)



6.  Stuck out in the slipstream under the starboard seat was expedient for one client who insisted on it in the cockpit.  He only had NACA inlets to the cockpit.  Hard to wash the belly without hitting it though. (Dynon)

7.  One guy has a ventilation tube plumbed from a NACA in the fin and piped into the overhead.  He had his in the tube there just as the NACA entered the fin.  (GRT)

8.  Another was in the area below the starboard baggage bay inside but just aft of the flap tube where I didn't think it would work well, but air came in the flap slot and it actually worked OK.  (GRT)



It is an experimental.  If it doesn't work, plug the hole and move it.  The only way to tell is take separate temperatures.  Use a handheld thermometer when in flight placed in your cockpit inlet to check your OAT placement for accuracy.



Best Regards,

Bud Yerly



--

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: where to put OAT sensor?

To check your OAT location/reading; try obtaining one of those self contained digital indoor/outdoor thermometers or a fridge one. 

They usually come with a long lead for the outdoor thermocouple. 

Use a bit of double sided tape, to mount the "head/readout end in the cockpit. Gap or 100 mph tape to temporarily secure the external lead and thermocouple in the desired position.

Works a treat - have even used one to check carburettor inlet temperatures.

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