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woxofswa
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ
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 Posted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:54 pm Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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The Archer instructions say to mount the Ant as far forward as possible, but I am concerned about interference from the heat shield foil around the landing light area.
Any suggestions appreciated.
TIA
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Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014 |
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bcondrey
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 4:06 am Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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When I did mine I had the same concern and talked with Bob A. - he said close but not touching.  I had about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap as I recall.  Also important, route the wiring along the leading edge as directed.  His nav antennas are great when installed exactly per directions!
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa" <[url=javascript:;]woxof(at)aol.com[/url]>
The Archer instructions say to mount the Ant as far forward as possible, but I Â am concerned about interference from the heat shield foil around the landing light area.
Any suggestions appreciated.
TIA
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. Â FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419544#419544
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woxofswa
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
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Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no problem, but the landing light is going to be problematic as I am running HID.
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Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014 |
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jmjones2000(at)mindspring
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:43 am Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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HID light are great, but I would seriously consider LED lighting. Minimal draw and with the new emitters and drivers, we are getting more light with less amperage draw from the system. This is being done all while enjoying much longer life, and less weight at a lower cost. The Squadron series of lights made by baja designs weigh just 12oz and put off 4300 lumens of light at 5000K. Here is a write up of them going into an rv http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=105248&page=1 This is a great write up and people on this thread are talking about using the same emitters from the new LED flashlights as well. Talk about a low budget long life lighting solution! The Squadron lights can be had for $260 each. The Cree XM-L emitters they use are top notch and will likely last for longer than the airframe.The write-up also has very impressive pictures of the lights running in the RV wingtips at night and shows how they light up the runway. Since LEDs offer low amperage draw, you can use a simple 12V flasher for WigWags if you want that option. You cant do that with HID because of the time it takes the light to warm up after voltage is applied.
Love the experimental market and the ability to use cutting edge technology in our planes!
Justin
On Mar 1, 2014, at 7:06 AM, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa" <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)>
Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no problem, but the landing light is going to be problematic as I am running HID.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419562#419562
- The RV10-List --> &n========================
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bcondrey
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:07 am Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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HID isn't a problem - I did them the same as other wiring on my first RV-10.  I could hear a slight amount of white noise hiss during the startup but quiet after that.  I suspect the noise was from the ballast but never bothered to investigate since it wasn't a big deal.I concur with the post on considering LEDs but you may need to deal with some noise with some of those products.  Most use small switching power supplies and if not shielded well you'll get noise. Â
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa" <[url=javascript:;]woxof(at)aol.com[/url]>
Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no problem, but the landing light is going to be problematic as I am running HID.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. Â FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419562#419562
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" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===========
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
e -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
[b]
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jmjones2000(at)mindspring
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:42 am Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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HID are great lights! You just can’t do wigwag if you want to. The noise is an issue for some, not all, of the LED users. By shielding, using ferrite filters, and grounding, these noises can be dealt with.
On Mar 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com (condreyb(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]HID isn't a problem - I did them the same as other wiring on my first RV-10. I could hear a slight amount of white noise hiss during the startup but quiet after that. I suspect the noise was from the ballast but never bothered to investigate since it wasn't a big deal.I concur with the post on considering LEDs but you may need to deal with some noise with some of those products. Most use small switching power supplies and if not shielded well you'll get noise.
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa" <[url=javascript:;]woxof(at)aol.com[/url]>
Thanks for that. I can run the recog/strobe wires along there no problem, but the landing light is going to be problematic as I am running HID.
--------
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419562#419562
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k">http://forums.matronics.com
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t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:43 am Post subject: Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
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Okay, I'm a contrarian. I ignored the instructions, mounted the VOR antenna back about 8 or 10 " from the heat foil; I ran the lighting wires inside the rib as far forward as possible, then directly out to the lights. Performance is fine; always get ILS signals; VOR's probably not quite as far out as an external antenna. Like the other Bob, I have an HID light and can hear hiss on start up only. And, I also have heard a lot of RF from some LED light's power supplies, so testing is necessary.
I presume you are talking about the VOR. If you meant the Archer com antenna, then you definitely want to move it back to the thickest part of the wing, so you can bend it down and get the largest possible vertical component in the element that carries the most current - the one closest to the ground plane.
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:03 am Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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You can wigwag the hid's. You just need to give them some warmup time first.
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 1, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Justin Jones <jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com (jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com)> wrote:
[quote]HID are great lights! You just can’t do wigwag if you want to. The noise is an issue for some, not all, of the LED users. By shielding, using ferrite filters, and grounding, these noises can be dealt with.
On Mar 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com (condreyb(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | HID isn't a problem - I did them the same as other wiring on my first RV-10. I could hear a slight amount of white noise hiss during the startup but quiet after that. I suspect the noise was from the ballast but never bothered to investigate since it wasn't a big deal.I concur with the post on considering LEDs but you may need to deal with some noise with some of those products. Most use small switching power supplies and if not shielded well you'll get noise.
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:
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//forums.matronics.com
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:08 pm Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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I'm using a XeVision flasher that has a 30 second warm-up for the HIDs. Â Works great and was all that was really available a couple years ago. Â It makes a clunk-clunk sound like an old truck turn signal but I don't mind it. Â Now I see Duckworks has one for HIDs too.
Dave Saylor
[url=tel:831-750-0284]831-750-0284[/url] CL
On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
[quote] You can wigwag the hid's. You just need to give them some warmup time first.Â
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 1, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Justin Jones <jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com (jmjones2000(at)mindspring.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | HID are great lights!  You just can’t do wigwag if you want to.  The noise is an issue for some, not all, of the LED users.  By shielding, using ferrite filters, and grounding, these noises can be dealt with.
On Mar 1, 2014, at 9:07 AM, Bob Condrey <condreyb(at)gmail.com (condreyb(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | HID isn't a problem - I did them the same as other wiring on my first RV-10.  I could hear a slight amount of white noise hiss during the startup but quiet after that.  I suspect the noise was from the ballast but never bothered to investigate since it wasn't a big deal.I concur with the post on considering LEDs but you may need to deal with some noise with some of those products.  Most use small switching power supplies and if not shielded well you'll get noise. Â
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:57 pm Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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Yes, the Bob A. Nav antenna works fine in the RV10's tips. Conversely, the Bob A. Comm antenna will work, but with limitations that I've concluded make it unsuitable for primary or secondary comm.
I followed the instructions very closely. In particular I made sure I had as much of a vertical orientation/polarization of the Comm antenna as possible (which is quite a bit).
It worked okay as a secondary Comm antenna... until I had a failure of my primary comm many 100s of miles away from home. It then became apparent that it's range was limited and had some directional problems when doing ground communications. All of sudden by secondary Comm was not a good backup for the primary. I had to do a field change to swap my secondary radio to my primary external antenna. Then all was fine.
My flying is mostly in the system so radio use is frequent and constant.  I now have two external Comm antennas for my primary and backup radios.
Again, I've found the Nav antenna to work fine for Loc/ILS work. Others have documented that it suffers some range deficiencies over external antenna but in the GPS age, it's VOR performance is more than adequate in my opinion.
On 3/1/2014 7:05 AM, Bob Condrey wrote:
[quote]When I did mine I had the same concern and talked with Bob A. - he said close but not touching.  I had about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap as I recall.  Also important, route the wiring along the leading edge as directed.  His nav antennas are great when installed exactly per directions!
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
02/28/14 [b]
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
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Ah, the never ending debates. I have basically the same data, wrt the Wingtip com antenna, but came to the opposite conclusion!
I have a belly whip on #1, and sometimes have trouble on the ground. But the wingtip always works! (maybe because I mounted it along the top of the wing, then bent it down?) A few months ago I must have been in a funny geometry - pointed right at the airport but nose down, 15 or 20 miles out. Tower couldn't make out my transmission (but other aircraft said they could). Switched to #2 (wingtip) and tower said loud and clear. After a turn, belly whip worked again, too.
But in general, belly whip is a little better, maybe 20% more usable range.
For me, that is good enough for a backup. Plus saving $150 and gaining a half knot! -
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:59 pm Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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This is my experience exactly.
Jesse SaintI-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 1, 2014, at 4:56 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote] Yes, the Bob A. Nav antenna works fine in the RV10's tips. Conversely, the Bob A. Comm antenna will work, but with limitations that I've concluded make it unsuitable for primary or secondary comm.
I followed the instructions very closely. In particular I made sure I had as much of a vertical orientation/polarization of the Comm antenna as possible (which is quite a bit).
It worked okay as a secondary Comm antenna... until I had a failure of my primary comm many 100s of miles away from home. It then became apparent that it's range was limited and had some directional problems when doing ground communications. All of sudden by secondary Comm was not a good backup for the primary. I had to do a field change to swap my secondary radio to my primary external antenna. Then all was fine.
My flying is mostly in the system so radio use is frequent and constant. I now have two external Comm antennas for my primary and backup radios.
Again, I've found the Nav antenna to work fine for Loc/ILS work. Others have documented that it suffers some range deficiencies over external antenna but in the GPS age, it's VOR performance is more than adequate in my opinion.
On 3/1/2014 7:05 AM, Bob Condrey wrote:
| Quote: | When I did mine I had the same concern and talked with Bob A. - he said close but not touching. I had about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap as I recall. Also important, route the wiring along the leading edge as directed. His nav antennas are great when installed exactly per directions!
Bob
On Saturday, March 1, 2014, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com (woxof(at)aol.com)> wrote:
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
02/28/14
|
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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I decided against the Archer antenna, not for performance reasons, but because I intended to have 2 VOR/ILS radios, and if the reception gain was at all limited with the Archer antenna I did not want to reduce it further with splitters. So I am putting a VOR antenna in each wing tip, each feeding its own radio.
I originally planned on a com antenna on belly and one on top of fuselage. The CFO did not like the looks of antenna on top of fuselage, so that got switched to two belly antennas. Perhaps one will work when the geometry isn't right for the other. I currently have the top and bottom configuration on my Mooney and find equal performance from both, haven't had case where one wouldn't work and the other did, so I'm not concerned.
On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:
[quote] Yes, the Bob A. Nav antenna works fine in the RV10's tips. Conversely, the Bob A. Comm antenna will work, but with limitations that I've concluded make it unsuitable for primary or secondary comm.
I followed the instructions very closely. In particular I made sure I had as much of a vertical orientation/polarization of the Comm antenna as possible (which is quite a bit).
It worked okay as a secondary Comm antenna... until I had a failure of my primary comm many 100s of miles away from home. It then became apparent that it's range was limited and had some directional problems when doing ground communications. All of sudden by secondary Comm was not a good backup for the primary. I had to do a field change to swap my secondary radio to my primary external antenna. Then all was fine.
My flying is mostly in the system so radio use is frequent and constant. I now have two external Comm antennas for my primary and backup radios.
Again, I've found the Nav antenna to work fine for Loc/ILS work. Others have documented that it suffers some range deficiencies over external antenna but in the GPS age, it's VOR performance is more than adequate in my opinion.
On 3/1/2014 7:05 AM, Bob Condrey wrote:
| Quote: | When I did mine I had the same concern and talked with Bob A. - he said close but not touching. I had about a 1/8" to 1/4" gap as I recall. QB wings completed, legacy build fuse on gear. FWF complete.
|
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Kelly McMullen
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
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| Kelly McMullen wrote: | I decided against the Archer antenna, not for performance reasons, but because I intended to have 2 VOR/ILS radios, and if the reception gain was at all limited with the Archer antenna I did not want to reduce it further with splitters. So I am putting a VOR antenna in each wing tip, each feeding its own radio.
[b] |
So what kind of antenna, not Archer, are you putting in the wing tips?
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Bob Turner
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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I mis-twyped. I am using the Archer VOR antennas, I decided against the Archer Com antenna.
On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> I decided against the Archer antenna, not for performance reasons, but because I intended to have 2 VOR/ILS radios, and if the reception gain was at all limited with the Archer antenna I did not want to reduce it further with splitters. So I am putting a VOR antenna in each wing tip, each feeding its own radio.
>
>
> [b]
So what kind of antenna, not Archer, are you putting in the wing tips?
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=419607#419607
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woxofswa
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
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Thanks for all the inputs. I angled the heat foil a bit and mated the nav antenna about 1/4 inch away. In my testing it seemed like the HID lamp was significantly cooler than the stock Halogen so the foil shouldn't be as critical. It actually turned out that my HID harness worked better in the antenna screw loops with the little black box nestled between the first two loops and the main box separate and forward. With dual GPS's (Garmin and Dynon) I'm going with a single Nav (G430)
I prefer not to run the harness for the Kuntzleman LED/Strobe through the antenna loops as it lines up significantly further forward. I hope that is okay. I have two bent whips on the belly for Coms 1&2. Antenna science is all voodoo to me.
I am starting to see a light at the end of the tunnel. (I hope it isn't an oncoming train.)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:24 am Post subject: Archer wingtip antenna |
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Hi Bob
I'm not quite understanding the detail you describe about the instalation of your wingtip Comm antenna, especially when you say "then bent it down".
Do you have a picture of that?
Carlos
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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Location: GA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:19 am Post subject: Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
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My Archer Comm in the wingtip works great. I mounted it as far away from the foil as I could (sort of) and I had already pulled the wires through the Van's conduit for everything else. So, I just left it at that. Absolutely no problems.
As far as the landing light, I replaced the Van's bulb with an LED that uses the same volts/amps/etc that looks just like it from Batteries Plus for $28 each. They have a very low draw, wig-wag great, and should last (unlike the Van's bulbs). They seem to put out enough light, but I haven't been out in the dark, yet. I figure my nose light will compensate, and besides, I was carrier Navy - we didn't even have landing lights. Using the taxi light on deck was punishable by the lash....
John
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: Archer wingtip antenna |
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"I'm not quite understanding the detail you describe about the instalation of your wingtip Comm antenna, especially when you say "then bent it down".
Do you have a picture of that? "
I do have a photo but don't know how to post it! Let me describe it a little better.
First of all, I didn't buy the Archer com; I cloned (copied) the VOR antenna (which I did buy). I made the antenna 10% shorter to better center the frequency in the com frequencies. I also made the coax connections inverted, so I could make connections on the bottom side.
The ground side of the antenna is under the rivets that hold the wingtip nutplates on the TOP side of the wing. The leading edge of the antenna is about half way back from the front of the wing, where the wingtip is the thickest. With the ground side of the antenna held by rivets (or clecos), I then bent the entire remaining part of the antenna downward until the long arm of the antenna hit the bottom of the wingtip. A few pieces of fiberglass/epoxy hold this in place. The idea is to get the part of the antenna that has the highest current (the part near the ground connection) as vertical as possible. I went top to bottom rather than bottom to top because I thought that gave me a little more vertical throw, due to the fact that the tip is not symmetric top/bottom.
If that's not clear let me know, and I'll figure out how to post a figure.
Bob
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Bob Turner
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