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riveteddragon(at)gmail.co
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 Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:57 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:26 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the straps attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A simple opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottle valve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to the passenger’s left leg. I use the AL682 bottle – more than enough for my needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each got a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we can charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year or so it does not break the bank.
If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for mounting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my wife’s one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
Aileron trim – put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control unit and an Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
01234567
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sean(at)braunandco.com
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:43 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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MH for me too. I bought the O2D2 from MH and love it for the front two passengers and regulators for the rear.
I agree with Carl, Van’s aileron trim is simple and works great with the Infinity grips.
Fuel- buy a fuel selector with Left, Right, Off and AUX. you can plug it at first and see if you end up wanting more fuel later.
From: Steven DeFord (riveteddragon(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 5:56 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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n223rv(at)wolflakeairport
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:03 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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Rudder trim is the one to not bother with. Aileron trim is a must in my opinion....
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 17, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the straps attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A simple opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottle valve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to the passenger’s left leg. I use the AL682 bottle – more than enough for my needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each got a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we can charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year or so it does not break the bank.
If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for mounting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my wife’s one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
Aileron trim – put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control unit and an Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
01234567
8
[b]
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:40 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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Interesting discussion. I have all 3 trims in my -10 and I very seldom use he aileron trim, although I do use it. I am usually flying on the auto pilot and then trimming the rudder levels the plane.
Jesse
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:03 PM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
[quote]Rudder trim is the one to not bother with. Aileron trim is a must in my opinion....
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 17, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the straps attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A simple opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottle valve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to the passenger’s left leg. I use the AL682 bottle – more than enough for my needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each got a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we can charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year or so it does not break the bank.
If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for mounting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my wife’s one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
Aileron trim – put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control unit and an Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
01234567
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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1. Aerox O2 tank on top of the tunnel, valve between the front seats.
2. Rudder trim is a fixed wedge, that's all I need. Plane climbs so well it is not a big deal to hold rudder during climb.
3. No aileron trim, I keep it balanced pretty well with 30 minute fuel tank changes. I also use the autopilot in cruise.
4. Nearly always run lean of peak, 160 KTAS with less than 10 gal/hr gives me 5 + 1 hour endurance, that's plenty for me.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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aerosport1
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:30 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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I agree with Jesse. All three. I have auto trim on elevator which is
Awesome.
As for o2 portable sits on tunnel between front and rear seats
And can service front and rear passengers with ease and can be removed in seconds
Geoff Combs
Sent from my iPhoneGeoff Combs
Aerosport Modeling & Design
On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:39 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
[quote]Interesting discussion. I have all 3 trims in my -10 and I very seldom use he aileron trim, although I do use it. I am usually flying on the auto pilot and then trimming the rudder levels the plane.
Jesse
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:03 PM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Rudder trim is the one to not bother with. Aileron trim is a must in my opinion....
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 17, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the straps attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A simple opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottle valve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to the passenger’s left leg. I use the AL682 bottle – more than enough for my needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each got a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we can charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year or so it does not break the bank.
If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for mounting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my wife’s one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
Aileron trim – put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control unit and an Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
01234567
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[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033 |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:10 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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Since the aileron trim can be added at any time, after you are flying, I
see no reason to install unless you really feel a need after you are flying.
IMHO, 4 hours of IFR flying is the max I want to do solo. Since I very
rarely have another instrument rated pilot with me, 5 hours of range is
plenty for me to cover reserves. 4 hours will get you almost 500 nm.
I've used Aerox tank for years. Probably will add MH pulse demand unit.
I've flown LOP for years with my 4 cyl Mooney and expect will be same in
the RV.
On 3/17/2014 6:59 PM, Bob Turner wrote:
| Quote: |
1. Aerox O2 tank on top of the tunnel, valve between the front seats.
2. Rudder trim is a fixed wedge, that's all I need. Plane climbs so well it is not a big deal to hold rudder during climb.
3. No aileron trim, I keep it balanced pretty well with 30 minute fuel tank changes. I also use the autopilot in cruise.
4. Nearly always run lean of peak, 160 KTAS with less than 10 gal/hr gives me 5 + 1 hour endurance, that's plenty for me.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420515#420515
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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rv10flyer(at)live.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:12 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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3) Aileron trim:- I fly solo most of the time (sadly) if you will as well get it! I have my aileron trimmed for most of my early flights after refueling due to the left side sitting lower than the right. With the trim the plane flies straight, as the fuel burns off the left I retrim back to center. I didn’t think I would use it, but glad I have it. You can easily add it in the future, although it is easier to add the trim with the skins off.
I have a Don Mcdonald special- otherwise known as a aluminum tab bended to make for a perfectly trimmed rudder in cruise.
Pascal
From: Steven DeFord (riveteddragon(at)gmail.com)
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 4:56 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:22 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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If you don't install it right away, you may want to at least run the servo
wires. I just find that doing things the way you want it the first time
makes for a lot less frustration. Rework always takes much extra time.
One correction though. 4 hours will get you MORE than 500nm...probably
close to 650nm actually, even LOP. The plane is more fun than you'd
imagine.
I don't have the MH system, but, for anyone planning on seriously
using O2, I think it's the best system out there. I wish I had it, but
to get what I want would cost more than I'm currently willing to buy.
That said, there will be a day, post kids-at-home, that I'll just buy it.
Tim
On 3/17/2014 10:09 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
| Quote: |
Since the aileron trim can be added at any time, after you are flying,
I see no reason to install unless you really feel a need after you are
flying.
IMHO, 4 hours of IFR flying is the max I want to do solo. Since I very
rarely have another instrument rated pilot with me, 5 hours of range
is plenty for me to cover reserves. 4 hours will get you almost 500 nm.
I've used Aerox tank for years. Probably will add MH pulse demand unit.
I've flown LOP for years with my 4 cyl Mooney and expect will be same
in the RV.
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:57 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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Either I'm just lazy, or I really do believe in the KISS principal. Definitely need Oxygen, but not sure about the great need for the other two. I fly back and forth from 0tx1, south of Ft. Worth to the Sacramento area.... both directions I only make one fuel stop (SJN). Both legs are 600 to 630nm. My longest flight was from Chandler AZ (Phoenix) to 0tx1, it was 747nm and I fueled upon arrival and had 12.5 gallons remaining. This was without a normal wonderful tailwind.
Notice you talked about hours and not actual range.... how FAR are you looking to fly?
Don McDonald
From: Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:56 PM
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
| Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">h
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riveteddragon(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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Well, as always, the farther/faster the better, but nonstop from San Francisco-Seattle and SF to Tucson are the more typical mission. If 650-700 mi range is plausible with IFR reserves, that's probably adequate. Does that mandate LoP and tune injectors, or just throttle back a bit?
Steven DeFordRivetedDragon(at)gmail.com (RivetedDragon(at)gmail.com)
(925) 596-0426 (cell)
On Mar 17, 2014, at 21:56, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]Either I'm just lazy, or I really do believe in the KISS principal. Definitely need Oxygen, but not sure about the great need for the other two. I fly back and forth from 0tx1, south of Ft. Worth to the Sacramento area.... both directions I only make one fuel stop (SJN). Both legs are 600 to 630nm. My longest flight was from Chandler AZ (Phoenix) to 0tx1, it was 747nm and I fueled upon arrival and had 12.5 gallons remaining. This was without a normal wonderful tailwind.
Notice you talked about hours and not actual range.... how FAR are you looking to fly?
Don McDonald
From: Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com (riveteddragon(at)gmail.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:56 PM
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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700 nm plus alternate plus ifr reserve (no wind) can be done LOP, or by throttling well back. I suspect the majority of owners are crusing LOP. It's easy and inexpensive to tune injectors. Save gas, low CHTs. What's not to like?
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:17 am Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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As for a portable O2 system, SkyOx has been the cheapest I've found. We have a mount between the rear seats that straps the tank in place. It's easy to leave it home when desired.
Jesse SaintI-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 17, 2014, at 10:30 PM, "g.combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)> wrote:
[quote]I agree with Jesse. All three. I have auto trim on elevator which is
Awesome.
As for o2 portable sits on tunnel between front and rear seats
And can service front and rear passengers with ease and can be removed in seconds
Geoff Combs
Sent from my iPhoneGeoff Combs
Aerosport Modeling & Design
On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:39 PM, Jesse Saint <jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Interesting discussion. I have all 3 trims in my -10 and I very seldom use he aileron trim, although I do use it. I am usually flying on the auto pilot and then trimming the rudder levels the plane.
Jesse
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 17, 2014, at 9:03 PM, Michael Kraus <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net (n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | Rudder trim is the one to not bother with. Aileron trim is a must in my opinion....
-Mike
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 17, 2014, at 8:25 PM, "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Oxygen. The easiest way is to use a Mountain High portable rig, the straps attached under screw heads on the tunnel cover to hold the bottle. A simple opening of the zipper from the pilot seat gets you access to the bottle valve. I mounted the O2 control unit on the side of the tunnel next to the passenger’s left leg. I use the AL682 bottle – more than enough for my needs. http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.php/cylinders/aluminum
At the airpark a group of us went in on a single charging rig, and each got a O2 bottle that we get refilled locally. With 4 bottles in series we can charge all our bottles a bunch of times, and at $40 a refill every year or so it does not break the bank.
If and when you need ferry tanks figure it out then. Many options for mounting them in the fuselage. I find 60 gallons to more than exceed my wife’s one leg tolerance level. I run LOP 90% of the time.
Aileron trim – put it in. Buy the two axis Safety trim control unit and an Infinity grip with a top hat for trim. I use it frequently.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Steven DeFord
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 7:57 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
01234567
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:20 am Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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Depending on winds, that's a reasonable range with standard tanks with IFR reserve. You may have to pull back a bit and run LOP also, but it should work for you. An extra 15gal w the tip tanks would certainly help.
Jesse SaintI-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 18, 2014, at 1:18 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com (riveteddragon(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]Well, as always, the farther/faster the better, but nonstop from San Francisco-Seattle and SF to Tucson are the more typical mission. If 650-700 mi range is plausible with IFR reserves, that's probably adequate. Does that mandate LoP and tune injectors, or just throttle back a bit?
Steven DeFordRivetedDragon(at)gmail.com (RivetedDragon(at)gmail.com)
(925) 596-0426 (cell)
On Mar 17, 2014, at 21:56, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Either I'm just lazy, or I really do believe in the KISS principal. Definitely need Oxygen, but not sure about the great need for the other two. I fly back and forth from 0tx1, south of Ft. Worth to the Sacramento area.... both directions I only make one fuel stop (SJN). Both legs are 600 to 630nm. My longest flight was from Chandler AZ (Phoenix) to 0tx1, it was 747nm and I fueled upon arrival and had 12.5 gallons remaining. This was without a normal wonderful tailwind.
Notice you talked about hours and not actual range.... how FAR are you looking to fly?
Don McDonald
From: Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com (riveteddragon(at)gmail.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:56 PM
Subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
//forums.matronics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:36 am Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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You'll want to fly LOP... the whole process is really pretty simple... plus when you're done adjusting and flying a bit, you know more about your plane and it's performance than you would have otherwise.
One thing that some of you might not know.... was flying from Newport OR down the coast to Gold Beach, and had an unbelievable tailwind. (4 souls on board) When I leveled off at 3,500' (to sight see) and went LOP... I glanced down and I was only getting 16.5mpg.... after a little thinking, I sped up about 20 mph, and like magic, I was now getting 18.5mpg. So there is a minimum speed needed to achieve the best economy. (Around 150mph indicated) Had I been at 10,000+ feet I would have probably been seeing 23 to 25 mpg... as I have on several return trips from Calif back to Texas. (see attached pic)
So, the point here is that you can throttle back to far, which will not allow you to fly farther.
Don McDonald
Pic attached shows what can be achieved with a good tailwind. At 2,100 rpm,half throttle, and LOP, you can still not only run fast, but run efficiently. Notice IAS still around 150mph. Seems to be the sweet spot for my 10.
From: Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com>
To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
Well, as always, the farther/faster the better, but nonstop from San Francisco-Seattle and SF to Tucson are the more typical mission. If 650-700 mi range is plausible with IFR reserves, that's probably adequate. Does that mandate LoP and tune injectors, or just throttle back a bit?
Steven DeFordRivetedDragon(at)gmail.com (RivetedDragon(at)gmail.com)
(925) 596-0426 (cell)
On Mar 17, 2014, at 21:56, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Either I'm just lazy, or I really do believe in the KISS principal. Definitely need Oxygen, but not sure about the great need for the other two. I fly back and forth from 0tx1, south of Ft. Worth to the Sacramento area.... both directions I only make one fuel stop (SJN). Both legs are 600 to 630nm. My longest flight was from Chandler AZ (Phoenix) to 0tx1, it was 747nm and I fueled upon arrival and had 12.5 gallons remaining. This was without a normal wonderful tailwind.
Notice you talked about hours and not actual range.... how FAR are you looking to fly?
Don McDonald
From: Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com (riveteddragon(at)gmail.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2014 6:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Picking the Matronics List's brain.
I realize that it's a bit early for me to be making some of these decisions, since I'm still only about halfway through the Emp kit, but I was wondering how people had done some of the following:
1) Oxygen: With the lovely ceiling (and good IFR performance), I'd like to mount some sort of oxygen system. Assuming I want to keep the bottle portable, and not have to get oxygen service by a truck through the side of the aircraft, where have people mounted the bottle so as to be reasonably accessible?
2) Fuel: Unless running LOP (not sure how I'll be doing it), 60 gallons is a bit shy for my purposes (would like 5h range + 1h reserve). I've considered adding a bit of fuel tubing in the tunnel to be able to hook up a ferry tank to sit in the back seat, since the 15 gal wingtip slide-in tanks don't carry quite enough, and I'm afraid to put significantly more weight in the wings that they weren't designed for (vs. the cabin). Other solutions?
3) Aileron trim: The -10 comes with pitch trim, and it's probably adequate to just use an adjustable bungee for rudder trim, but do people put in aileron trim, and if so, have they used it much? It seems like the general consensus on the websites is "Don't bother."
Steve
http://=======================
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Jim Berry
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject: Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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The -10 climbs so well, and cruises so well up high, that I would suggest you consider permanent mount O2. I have a MH 4-place demand setup, and love it. With 2 tanks and transfill setup in my hangar, I top off the MH tank before most long xcountries.
I live in CO and fly long trips over the mountains. Typical flight is between 12-16,000, LOP, WOT from takeoff to landing. Last week we did Denver to Loreto MX with one fuel stop at Sierra Vista. Maxed out the pee bottles.
I know some people like to fly low to check out the scenery, but in my neck of the woods that frequently puts you out of radio/radar contact. I also like the extra altitude if the whirly thing up front quits.
Can you do without aileron trim? Sure, but in the -10, why? The install and expense is infinitesimal in the overall scheme of things. If you are planning long trips, fly in trim and wring out every knot the plane is capable of.
Jim Berry
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riveteddragon(at)gmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:38 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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Where'd you mount the bottle? Behind the baggage compartment seems awkward to get to in order to fill, and I'd like to be able to fill the tank at an FBO without requiring an oxygen truck going to a port on the plane. It seems like tucked in behind the rear seats makes sense, although that reduces baggage space...
Steven DeFord
RivetedDragon(at)gmail.com
(925) 596-0426 (cell)
On Mar 18, 2014, at 13:01, "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
The -10 climbs so well, and cruises so well up high, that I would suggest you consider permanent mount O2. I have a MH 4-place demand setup, and love it. With 2 tanks and transfill setup in my hangar, I top off the MH tank before most long xcountries.
I live in CO and fly long trips over the mountains. Typical flight is between 12-16,000, LOP, WOT from takeoff to landing. Last week we did Denver to Loreto MX with one fuel stop at Sierra Vista. Maxed out the pee bottles.
I know some people like to fly low to check out the scenery, but in my neck of the woods that frequently puts you out of radio/radar contact. I also like the extra altitude if the whirly thing up front quits.
Can you do without aileron trim? Sure, but in the -10, why? The install and expense is infinitesimal in the overall scheme of things. If you are planning long trips, fly in trim and wring out every knot the plane is capable of.
Jim Berry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=420558#420558
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Jim Berry
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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My O2 bottle is mounted behind the baggage bulkhead, with the fill valve mounted through the bulkhead and accessible from the baggage area. I carry a 10 foot long fill tube, but have only used it once, as a full bottle normally lasts us for a round trip.
Jim Berry
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flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:41 pm Post subject: Picking the Matronics List's brain. |
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On 3/18/2014 4:01 PM, Jim Berry wrote:
| Quote: |
The -10 climbs so well, and cruises so well up high, that I would suggest you consider permanent mount O2. I have a MH 4-place demand setup, and love it. With 2 tanks and transfill setup in my hangar, I top off the MH tank before most long xcountries.
When you fly in Colorado, you're takeoff is about where my cruising
|
altitude is .... in FL. So, in your case it makes sense to keep toting
the O2 bottle around. The only time I'll ever use O2 is on a long cross
country .... not to get a hamburger so a portable makes more sense for
me. It's all in the mission thingy.
| Quote: | I live in CO and fly long trips over the mountains. Typical flight is between 12-16,000, LOP, WOT from takeoff to landing. Last week we did Denver to Loreto MX with one fuel stop at Sierra Vista. Maxed out the pee bottles.
I know some people like to fly low to check out the scenery, but in my neck of the woods that frequently puts you out of radio/radar contact. I also like the extra altitude if the whirly thing up front quits.
Can you do without aileron trim? Sure, but in the -10, why? The install and expense is infinitesimal in the overall scheme of things. If you are planning long trips, fly in trim and wring out every knot the plane is capable of.
I agree .... it's so easy and inexpensive to put aileron and rudder trim
|
in while you're building. After you're flying you'll really hate to
take the plane off-line to do any mods. I'll be putting in both aileron
trim and rudder trim using a model airplane servo to drive hinge tabs.
They require pulse-width signals which are generated by a Parallax BS2
controller
(http://www.parallax.com/catalog/microcontrollers/basic-stamp). It also
controls a servo to pan my camera and pulses my elevator trim. All
controlled from my infinity grip.
Linn
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