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UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

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mjb777

Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Dubai UAE

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Hi all,



Does anyone have a copy of the UK LAA MOD/202/001 through to MOD/202/008 documents that outlined some manditory modifications to the Pulsar?



Googling results in a TAD document that skims over a couple of them and shows that the LAA approved some higher speeds etc, but no real specifics, particularly for MOD/202/001 though to MOD/202/006.



Regards, Matt.

_________________
Pulsar 1 TD Kit.
Captain B777.
Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

briana(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:55 am Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Matt,



I don’t know the answer to that question, but I do have a little information about some modifications that were incorporated into my XP. Can you describe any of the mods?



And I have a question for you - - totally unrelated, but about the B777



Can you tell me why would happen if while in cruise in the B777 you reached the end [i.e. arrive overhead] the last programmed waypoint in the FMC. What would the aircraft do next, if there was no intervention by the crew? Have you ever seen that happen in practice, or experienced it in a SIM.



Brian

On 7/04/2014, at 4:01 am, mjb777 <mattbrock777(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi all,

 

 Does anyone have a copy of the UK LAA MOD/202/001 through to MOD/202/008 documents that outlined some manditory modifications to the Pulsar?

 

 Googling results in a TAD document that skims over a couple of them and shows that the LAA approved some higher speeds etc, but no real specifics, particularly for MOD/202/001 though to MOD/202/006.

 

 Regards, Matt.

 

 --------

 Pulsar 1 TD Kit.

 Captain B777.

 Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421610#421610

briana(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:04 am Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Matt,



I’ve just looked on the LAA website, searched using MOD/202/001, and none of these mods relate directly to any of the Aero Designs service bulletins that I am aware of.



It seems to get the detailed information you will need to contact the LAA.



Brian

On 7/04/2014, at 4:01 am, mjb777 <mattbrock777(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi all,

 

 Does anyone have a copy of the UK LAA MOD/202/001 through to MOD/202/008 documents that outlined some manditory modifications to the Pulsar?

 

 Googling results in a TAD document that skims over a couple of them and shows that the LAA approved some higher speeds etc, but no real specifics, particularly for MOD/202/001 though to MOD/202/006.

 

 Regards, Matt.

 

 --------

 Pulsar 1 TD Kit.

 Captain B777.

 Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421610#421610

mjb777

Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Dubai UAE

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:41 am Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Yeah sure brian,



Lateral navigation or LNAV will downgrade to heading hold at the end of programmed FMC route.Â 



I've flown and instructed on Boeings for a long time, and I can't think of any unintentional mode combination, normal or downgradedâ€Ž, or simply thrust and Â trim scenario that would result in a 6+ hour journey. the 747-400 was a lot more stable than the 777 and it wouldn't stay airborne that long.Â 



If A/C in intentional modes and and run out of gas, or thrust, and left to its own devices, then you'll get a vertical mode downgrade at stick shaker that will result in an almost max alpha descent in envelope protectionâ€Ž, and that's if the autopilot stays engaged between main electrical bus loss and RAT or APU power automatically coming online. Otherwise it's an in trim descent.Â 



The 'event' that I think you are referring to doesn't make much sense to me either. And the 'aviation experts' in the media certainly don't help. They may as well get Kim Kardashian in front of the camera.



At the end of the day. The truth lies in what data is recovered, and like all big jet incidents these days, what they want us to know. Lots of money involved.



Hope that helps............



I've emailed the LAA. Fingers crossed. â€ŽIf i have any trouble, due to not being a member, can anyone help out? I'll return the favour with any info you may need from the Aussie SAAA...........



Regards.



Â  Original Message Â 

From: Brian Anderson

Sent: Sunday, 6 April 2014 20:57

To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

Reply To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......






Matt,



I donâ€™t know the answer to that question, but I do have a little information about some modifications that were incorporated into my XP. Can you describe any of the mods?



And I have a question for you - - totally unrelated, but about the B777



Can you tell me why would happen if while in cruise in the B777 you reached the end [i.e. arrive overhead] the last programmed waypoint in the FMC. What would the aircraft do next, if there was no intervention by the crew? Have you ever seen that happen in practice, or experienced it in a SIM.



Brian

On 7/04/2014, at 4:01 am, mjb777 <mattbrock777(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Hi all,

 

 Does anyone have a copy of the UK LAA MOD/202/001 through to MOD/202/008 documents that outlined some manditory modifications to the Pulsar?

 

 Googling results in a TAD document that skims over a couple of them and shows that the LAA approved some higher speeds etc, but no real specifics, particularly for MOD/202/001 though to MOD/202/006.

 

 Regards, Matt.

 

 --------

 Pulsar 1 TD Kit.

 Captain B777.

 Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421610#421610

_________________
Pulsar 1 TD Kit.
Captain B777.
Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

barry(at)connisbeare.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:14 pm Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Matt,

  

 Iâ€™m, sure that Alan Gill will have all the info you need. He is the UK  Pulsar Squadron coordinator and may already have seen you message but email him  anyway. alan99gill(at)yahoo.co.uk (alan99gill(at)yahoo.co.uk)

  

 Cheers,

  

 Barry

 G-XPXP Pulsar 912 Taildragger UK 1040hrs (ish)

  

    

  From: mjb777 (mattbrock777(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2014 5:01 PM

 To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com (pulsar-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001  etc.......

  



 -->  Pulsar-List message posted by: "mjb777" <mattbrock777(at)gmail.com>



Hi  all,



Does anyone have a copy of the UK LAA MOD/202/001 through to  MOD/202/008 documents that outlined some manditory modifications to the  Pulsar?



Googling results in a TAD document that skims over a couple of  them and shows that the LAA approved some higher speeds etc, but no real  specifics, particularly for MOD/202/001 though to MOD/202/006.



Regards,  Matt.



--------

Pulsar 1 TD Kit.

Captain B777.

Licenced Aircraft  Maintenance Engineer.





Read this topic online  here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421610#421610



    	 		 			 				 			 		 		 			

 				This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. 			 		 	      [quote][b]

briana(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:37 pm Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Thanks Matt,

Yes of course the question I ask is related to MH370, but it is a hypothetical one asked by Duncan Steel    see www.duncansteel.com

Iâ€™m not interested in the media stuff. It is mostly distorted and totally speculative, but Duncan and some of his contributors are approaching this from a strictly scientific point of view, based on publicly released data form Inmarsat.

I have a friend who is a very experienced B777 captain and he too, gave me essentially the same answer as you, i.e the aircraft would default to either Heading Hold or Track Hold, depending on what mode the autopilot was left previously.

We should probably get off this topic on the Pulsar List, lest we incur the wrath of others, or the moderator. And I apologise to other members in advance.

Brian

On 7/04/2014, at 7:41 am, Matt Brock <mattbrock777(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Yeah sure brian,

 Lateral navigation or LNAV will downgrade to heading hold at the end of programmed FMC route. 

 I've flown and instructed on Boeings for a long time, and I can't think of any unintentional mode combination, normal or downgradedâ€Ž, or simply thrust and  trim scenario that would result in a 6+ hour journey. the 747-400 was a lot more stable than the 777 and it wouldn't stay airborne that long. 

 If A/C in intentional modes and and run out of gas, or thrust, and left to its own devices, then you'll get a vertical mode downgrade at stick shaker that will result in an almost max alpha descent in envelope protectionâ€Ž, and that's if the autopilot stays engaged between main electrical bus loss and RAT or APU power automatically coming online. Otherwise it's an in trim descent. 

 The 'event' that I think you are referring to doesn't make much sense to me either. And the 'aviation experts' in the media certainly don't help. They may as well get Kim Kardashian in front of the camera.

 At the end of the day. The truth lies in what data is recovered, and like all big jet incidents these days, what they want us to know. Lots of money involved.

 Hope that helps............

 I've emailed the LAA. Fingers crossed. â€ŽIf i have any trouble, due to not being a member, can anyone help out? I'll return the favour with any info you may need from the Aussie SAAA...........

 Regards.

   Original Message  

 From: Brian Anderson

 Sent: Sunday, 6 April 2014 20:57

 To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

 Reply To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

 Matt,

 I donâ€™t know the answer to that question, but I do have a little information about some modifications that were incorporated into my XP. Can you describe any of the mods?

 And I have a question for you - - totally unrelated, but about the B777

 Can you tell me why would happen if while in cruise in the B777 you reached the end [i.e. arrive overhead] the last programmed waypoint in the FMC. What would the aircraft do next, if there was no intervention by the crew? Have you ever seen that happen in practice, or experienced it in a SIM.

 Brian

 On 7/04/2014, at 4:01 am, mjb777 <mattbrock777(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> Hi all,

> 

> Does anyone have a copy of the UK LAA MOD/202/001 through to MOD/202/008 documents that outlined some manditory modifications to the Pulsar?

> 

> Googling results in a TAD document that skims over a couple of them and shows that the LAA approved some higher speeds etc, but no real specifics, particularly for MOD/202/001 though to MOD/202/006.

> 

> Regards, Matt.

> 

> --------

> Pulsar 1 TD Kit.

> Captain B777.

> Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421610#421610

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

kdpalmer(at)mweb.co.za
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:26 pm Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Not at all Brian, I for one have found it very interesting, as I have been following the distorted facts closely. I'm sure the other guys have found it interesting as well.



Keith



--

kdpalmer(at)mweb.co.za
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:05 pm Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Hi Matt,

                    Try Allen Gill in the UK he seems to know a lot about

the UK regs  alan99gill(at)yahoo.co.uk



Regards

Keith



--

briana(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:35 pm Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Keith,



Then donâ€™t bother with the media stuff. Check out Duncanâ€™s website, and also  this - - http://tmfassociates.com/blog/category/operators/inmarsat/      and this guy, GlobusMax - - -  http://www.reddit.com/r/MH370/comments/21jla4/mh370_flight_waypoints_timing_and_speed/?sort=new



Interesting what Crowd Sourcing can do.



Brian

On 7/04/2014, at 3:25 pm, Keith Palmer <kdpalmer(at)mweb.co.za> wrote:



[quote] 

 

 Not at all Brian, I for one have found it very interesting, as I have been following the distorted facts closely. I'm sure the other guys have found it interesting as well.

 

 Keith

 

 --

mjb777

Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Dubai UAE

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:21 pm Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Yes Brian, and I am no expert either so hopefully we'll get pure facts from one soon, for the families sake.  



I did hear from Alan and he proved once again how lucky we are to have such a great group of people who are passionate about the Pulsar.



I'll post his answer into this topic shortly.



Regards,



Matt

  Original Message  

From: Keith Palmer

Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 06:07

To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

Reply To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......






Hi Matt,

Try Allen Gill in the UK he seems to know a lot about

the UK regs alan99gill(at)yahoo.co.uk



Regards

Keith



--

_________________
Pulsar 1 TD Kit.
Captain B777.
Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

mjb777

Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Dubai UAE

Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Here is Alan Gill's outline of the first 6 UK LAA MOD requirements for the Pulsar, (thanks very much again Alan!) :



MOD/202/001 .... If you are installing the header fuel tank (in front of the instrument panel) then at the fuel outlet you need to have a fuel strainer and on/off tap.



Fit gascolator to firewall (gascolator to have metal bowls). 



All fuel lines in engine bay to be of fire proof type.



MOD/202/002 .... The canopy is held close by an internal centre latch above the instrument panel. So there is no means of releasing the canopy externally (if say a rescue team needed to access you inside the cockpit). So we had to fit a canopy open/close system that could be operated internally as well as externally. Most of use devised a system that was mounted above your head  (on the composite), and centre to the canopy. 



MOD/202/003 ... Flap lever to be shrouded to allow operation without risk of cuffs, gloves etc being caught in the flap gate.   I did not modify my Pulsar, and I am not aware of anyone else doing it in our UK fleet. Never had a problem.



MOD/202/004 ...  Throttle inner cable in cockpit to be enclosed with outer sleeving (to prevent snagging in vicinity of pilots knees).



MOD/202/005 ... Addition to firewall.  We were instructed to fit a firewall shield. I used stainless steel (0.015" min thickness), or we could use a product called "fiberfrax" at 3mm thick with a covering sheet of aluminium.



MOD/202/006 ... Flying Control System Improvements.  At the flap clevis fork (page 48 in the build manual), fit an extra rib. This is to prevent any flexing of the upper part of the flap when full flap is applied. For a template, use the inboard rib part number AD220-A.



The pop rivets that hold the bell crank AD224 to the flap torque tube AD222A has a shear of 420 lbs. There is only about 20% safety limit here. So recommended that a 3/16 bolt be added between the rivets using a AN3-16A bolt with lock-nut (use a suitable spacer inside of the torque tube to prevent crushing). 



AN hardware .. Any part that is being held by an AN bolt with a nylock nut that  "rotates" should be changed out to a castle head nut with split-pin.



Examples: AD224 flap bell crank to AD226 flap pushrod. AD240 control stick to AD242 hinge bracket etc.





Anything to add guys????

Regards, Matt.

_________________
Pulsar 1 TD Kit.
Captain B777.
Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

briana(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:06 am Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

It doesn’t mention the extra glass on the underside of each wing near the wing root, over the seam between the two wing skins [well, for the XP at least].



And I think one of the other LAA notes refers to the blue foam ribs and their propensity to dissolve in contact with fuel or even fuel vapour.



Brian



On 7/04/2014, at 5:44 pm, mjb777 <mattbrock777(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Here is Alan Gill's outline of the first 6 UK LAA MOD requirements for the Pulsar, (thanks very much again Alan!) :

 

 MOD/202/001 .... If you are installing the header fuel tank (in front of the instrument panel) then at the fuel outlet you need to have a fuel strainer and on/off tap.

 

 Fit gascolator to firewall (gascolator to have metal bowls). 

 

 All fuel lines in engine bay to be of fire proof type.

 

 MOD/202/002 .... The canopy is held close by an internal centre latch above the instrument panel. So there is no means of releasing the canopy externally (if say a rescue team needed to access you inside the cockpit). So we had to fit a canopy open/close system that could be operated internally as well as externally. Most of use devised a system that was mounted above your head  (on the composite), and centre to the canopy. 

 

 MOD/202/003 ... Flap lever to be shrouded to allow operation without risk of cuffs, gloves etc being caught in the flap gate.   I did not modify my Pulsar, and I am not aware of anyone else doing it in our UK fleet. Never had a problem.

 

 MOD/202/004 ...  Throttle inner cable in cockpit to be enclosed with outer sleeving (to prevent snagging in vicinity of pilots knees).

 

 MOD/202/005 ... Addition to firewall.  We were instructed to fit a firewall shield. I used stainless steel (0.015" min thickness), or we could use a product called "fiberfrax" at 3mm thick with a covering sheet of aluminium.

 

 MOD/202/006 ... Flying Control System Improvements.  At the flap clevis fork (page 48 in the build manual), fit an extra rib. This is to prevent any flexing of the upper part of the flap when full flap is applied. For a template, use the inboard rib part number AD220-A.

 

 The pop rivets that hold the bell crank AD224 to the flap torque tube AD222A has a shear of 420 lbs. There is only about 20% safety limit here. So recommended that a 3/16 bolt be added between the rivets using a AN3-16A bolt with lock-nut (use a suitable spacer inside of the torque tube to prevent crushing). 

 

 AN hardware .. Any part that is being held by an AN bolt with a nylock nut that  "rotates" should be changed out to a castle head nut with split-pin.

 

 Examples: AD224 flap bell crank to AD226 flap pushrod. AD240 control stick to AD242 hinge bracket etc.

 

 

 

 

 Anything to add guys????

 

 

 Regards, Matt.

 

 --------

 Pulsar 1 TD Kit.

 Captain B777.

 Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421669#421669

mjb777

Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Dubai UAE

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:13 am Post subject: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

I found details of the lower wooden wing skin modification in the Aero Designs newsletter 'bulletins', and version 5 of the UK LAA Pulsar acceptance document TAD 202 has details of the foam ribs melting due to fuel vapour. I think all AD and SkyStar newsletters are available in the Yahoo group file area.



I have the TAD 202 document and it is also available if you Google UK LAA Pulsar if anyone needs it.



Regards,



Matt.

Â  Original Message Â 

From: Brian Anderson

Sent: Monday, 7 April 2014 11:08

To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

Reply To: pulsar-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......






It doesnâ€™t mention the extra glass on the underside of each wing near the wing root, over the seam between the two wing skins [well, for the XP at least].



And I think one of the other LAA notes refers to the blue foam ribs and their propensity to dissolve in contact with fuel or even fuel vapour.



Brian



On 7/04/2014, at 5:44 pm, mjb777 <mattbrock777(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Here is Alan Gill's outline of the first 6 UK LAA MOD requirements for the Pulsar, (thanks very much again Alan!) :

 

 MOD/202/001 .... If you are installing the header fuel tank (in front of the instrument panel) then at the fuel outlet you need to have a fuel strainer and on/off tap.

 

 Fit gascolator to firewall (gascolator to have metal bowls). 

 

 All fuel lines in engine bay to be of fire proof type.

 

 MOD/202/002 .... The canopy is held close by an internal centre latch above the instrument panel. So there is no means of releasing the canopy externally (if say a rescue team needed to access you inside the cockpit). So we had to fit a canopy open/close system that could be operated internally as well as externally. Most of use devised a system that was mounted above your head (on the composite), and centre to the canopy. 

 

 MOD/202/003 ... Flap lever to be shrouded to allow operation without risk of cuffs, gloves etc being caught in the flap gate. I did not modify my Pulsar, and I am not aware of anyone else doing it in our UK fleet. Never had a problem.

 

 MOD/202/004 ... Throttle inner cable in cockpit to be enclosed with outer sleeving (to prevent snagging in vicinity of pilots knees).

 

 MOD/202/005 ... Addition to firewall. We were instructed to fit a firewall shield. I used stainless steel (0.015" min thickness), or we could use a product called "fiberfrax" at 3mm thick with a covering sheet of aluminium.

 

 MOD/202/006 ... Flying Control System Improvements. At the flap clevis fork (page 48 in the build manual), fit an extra rib. This is to prevent any flexing of the upper part of the flap when full flap is applied. For a template, use the inboard rib part number AD220-A.

 

 The pop rivets that hold the bell crank AD224 to the flap torque tube AD222A has a shear of 420 lbs. There is only about 20% safety limit here. So recommended that a 3/16 bolt be added between the rivets using a AN3-16A bolt with lock-nut (use a suitable spacer inside of the torque tube to prevent crushing). 

 

 AN hardware .. Any part that is being held by an AN bolt with a nylock nut that "rotates" should be changed out to a castle head nut with split-pin.

 

 Examples: AD224 flap bell crank to AD226 flap pushrod. AD240 control stick to AD242 hinge bracket etc.

 

 

 

 

 Anything to add guys????

 

 

 Regards, Matt.

 

 --------

 Pulsar 1 TD Kit.

 Captain B777.

 Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=421669#421669

_________________
Pulsar 1 TD Kit.
Captain B777.
Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

mjb777

Joined: 11 Aug 2012
Posts: 54
Location: Dubai UAE

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:52 am Post subject: Re: UK LAA MOD/202/001 etc.......

Got a scanned copy of the actual MOD/202/001 to 008 documents.......here's a dropbox link:



https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1vzcadnaihvhvv/202%20LAA%20PULSAR%20MOD001-008.pdf



Thanks to the UK LAA.



Regards,



Matt.

_________________
Pulsar 1 TD Kit.
Captain B777.
Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer.

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