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Adam Canterbury
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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I flew the aircraft today without the trim tab and it was as expected. Right leg was sore after one trip around the patch. I will be fabricating a new trim tab soon and give that a try. I would like to install some kind of reinforcement to the rudder to mount the tab to instead of trying to drill the small round tubing. It is hard to keep the drill bit from walking. I might check with a friend that has a machine shop and see if he can make some kind of jig or fixture to help with that. I appreciate all of the feedback.
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beauford173(at)tampabay.r
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Brother Canterbury:
A measure I have found to be effective is to beef up the spring(s) on the
offending rudder pedal.
I installed two springs, vice the one called for in the plans. This enabled
the use of a smaller rudder tab
and might save you from having to knock those additional holes in your
rudder.
Worth what ye paid fer it...
Beauford
FF-076
I flew the aircraft today without the trim tab and it was as expected. Right
leg was sore after one trip around the patch. I will be fabricating a new
trim tab soon and give that a try. I would like to install some kind of
reinforcement to the rudder to mount the tab to instead of trying to drill
the small round tubing. It is hard to keep the drill bit from walking. I
might check with a friend that has a machine shop and see if he can make
some kind of jig or fixture to help with that. I appreciate all of the
feedback.
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frank goodnight
Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 126
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 4:30 am Post subject: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Hi ,
I think --underline think-- that Kolb has a tool that is used to center the holes when
drilling the ribs, you might give Travis a call.
Frank
Sent from my iPad
On May 1, 2014, at 10:00 PM, "Adam Canterbury" <canterbury.adam(at)gmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: |
I flew the aircraft today without the trim tab and it was as expected. Right leg was sore after one trip around the patch. I will be fabricating a new trim tab soon and give that a try. I would like to install some kind of reinforcement to the rudder to mount the tab to instead of trying to drill the small round tubing. It is hard to keep the drill bit from walking. I might check with a friend that has a machine shop and see if he can make some kind of jig or fixture to help with that. I appreciate all of the feedback.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422716#422716
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Frankd
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Hi Adam,
I have a MkIII Xtra and attached a trim tab to the trailing edge of the rudder to get my plane to fly straight with my feet off the rudder pedals.
I never had a sore foot like you, tho, and wonder if you have a bigger problem.
One thing I would check is the attachment of your vertical stab to the main fuselage tube, at the front attachment point. If you look at some factory aircraft you will see that the Vert Stab is offset by up to an inch to counteract the effect of prop wash.
If your attachment is slightly off centerline this may be adding to the problem. If your wing alignment is good and not creating a roll which then adds to your rudder needs this is one area I would check.
It looked like you need right rudder trim, so if the front attachment is moved silghtly left of centerline it could help alot. I still think you will need a rudder trim tab to fine tune in-flight forces.
BTW, with my plane which has a jabiru 80HP engine, if you apply power quickly on Take-off the prop blast pushes against the left side of the rudder and you will be heading for the left side of the runway very quickly. I'm sure different props/engines create different forces against rudders and some could be dramatic, like yours.
Something to look at in your overall rigging.
Good luck, keep making those small changes one at a time and then one day you will fly and realize its all working well.. Thats when it will all be worth it..
FrankD
1014S. 90Hrs
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clydemacquarrie(at)eastli
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:58 am Post subject: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Adam. Try using a bullet-type drill bit. This type of bit has a tip much
small than a normal size. Clyde MacQuarrie.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Adam Canterbury" <canterbury.adam(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:00 AM
To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Uncoordinated flight help!
| Quote: |
<canterbury.adam(at)gmail.com>
I flew the aircraft today without the trim tab and it was as expected.
Right leg was sore after one trip around the patch. I will be fabricating
a new trim tab soon and give that a try. I would like to install some kind
of reinforcement to the rudder to mount the tab to instead of trying to
drill the small round tubing. It is hard to keep the drill bit from
walking. I might check with a friend that has a machine shop and see if he
can make some kind of jig or fixture to help with that. I appreciate all
of the feedback.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422716#422716
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racerjerry
Joined: 15 Dec 2009
Posts: 202
Location: Deer Park, NY
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:53 am Post subject: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Yes, drill bits tend to walk without a starting point/hole. Grab a small strip of oak (I use scrap hardwood flooring) and cut it down to 1 x 3 (or smaller). File (or mill) a very shallow slot across the block to match the radius of your tubing, which I assume is 5/16 diameter. In the center of the shallow slot, drill a hole using a #40 drill bit. Sand and round off all corners of the block on the slotted side. The slot in the block will allow you to locate and center the wooden block over the fabric / tubing and pressing on the block will retard the tendency for the drill bit to walk. It is better to start small with a #40 drill bit used as a pilot drill. Once you have the initial hole, it is very easy to open them up to full rivet size. The hardwood block will eventually wear; but will surely last long enough to complete your task. Good luck.
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Rex Rodebush
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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The bullet-type drill bits are great but I have not been able to get them for the past 2-3 years. Couldn't even find them on the internet. If you know of a source let me know.
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koxxy
Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Beaverton, OR
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:16 am Post subject: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Split-point bits work great. I bought a 10-pack #30s and made it through my entire project (Earthstar eGull).
Martin
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Rex Rodebush <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com (jrrodebush(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com (jrrodebush(at)gmail.com)>
The bullet-type drill bits are great but I have not been able to get them for the past 2-3 years. Couldn't even find them on the internet. If you know of a source let me know.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422841#422841
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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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russk50(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:45 pm Post subject: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Rex
Just today I bought a two-step drill bit; pilot is praps 3/64", then main part of the drill is 1/8" Cost $16 but it's a double-ender. This what you're looking for?
Bath Industrial Supply, 207 443 9754
Russ K
Do not archive
On May 5, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 2:09 pm Post subject: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Item66213 (at)harbour freight On May 5, 2014 3:51 PM, "kinne russ" <russk50(at)gmail.com (russk50(at)gmail.com)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: kinne russ <russk50(at)gmail.com (russk50(at)gmail.com)>
Rex
Just today I bought a two-step drill bit; pilot is praps 3/64", then main part of the drill is 1/8" Cost $16 but it's a double-ender. This what you're looking for?
Bath Industrial Supply, [url=tel:207%20443%209754]207 443 9754[/url]
Russ K
Do not archive
On May 5, 2014, at 12:41 PM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Rex Rodebush" <jrrodebush(at)gmail.com (jrrodebush(at)gmail.com)>
>
> The bullet-type drill bits are great but I have not been able to get them for the past 2-3 years. Couldn't even find them on the internet. If you know of a source let me know.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422841#422841
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Rex Rodebush
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Russ,
No, the bits I remember were made/sold by Black & Decker. The 1/8" bit had a "mini" bit on the tip probably around 1/32" which made a pilot hole to guide the 1/8" bit into. It was so small it was no problem to drill into a rib tube without it moving around. I think it was called a "Pilot Point" bit?
Rex
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Rex Rodebush
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Just checked on the net. Looks like Dewalt is making a pilot point bit that looks the same as the old Black and Decker one.
Rex
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Rex Rodebush
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Russ,
I should have read your email closer. Getting too old! Your bit sounds exactly like the ones B & D made only they were single ended and a lot cheaper.
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russk50(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 5:21 pm Post subject: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Sounds like the same bit. These are US-made. Dunno what B&D uses
Russ
On May 5, 2014, at 8:28 PM, Rex Rodebush wrote:
| Quote: |
Russ,
No, the bits I remember were made/sold by Black & Decker. The 1/8" bit had a "mini" bit on the tip probably around 1/32" which made a pilot hole to guide the 1/8" bit into. It was so small it was no problem to drill into a rib tube without it moving around. I think it was called a "Pilot Point" bit?
Rex
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422868#422868
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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Jerry, One way to extend the life of a wood block drill guide is to soak the hole with "Super Glue" and allow it to plasticize the wood. Redrill the hole after the glue dries as the wood fibers will swell. Not as good as a hardened steel drill bushing, but cheaper and easy to make. I used the same trick when I made the floor board for my Mk III on the edges and the attachment holes. When I had the shape drawn out with pencil I soaked the wood all around the periphery. Worked great to keep the birch plywood from chipping.
If appearance is important and you plan to varnish or otherwise finish the wood, test a piece of scrap to see how the Super Glue affects the look of the part. The fellow who gave me these tips on Super Glue said that Daimler uses a similar process to get that highly polished look on the wood dash inserts on Mercedes Benz cars.
Thanks to Russ K and Larry for the tips on the drill bits.
Rick Girard
do not archive
On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 4:53 AM, racerjerry <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "racerjerry" <gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us (gki(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us)>
Yes, drill bits tend to walk without a starting point/hole. Grab a small strip of oak (I use scrap hardwood flooring) and cut it down to 1 x 3 (or smaller). File (or mill) a very shallow slot across the block to match the radius of your tubing, which I assume is 5/16 diameter. In the center of the shallow slot, drill a hole using a #40 drill bit. Sand and round off all corners of the block on the slotted side. The slot in the block will allow you to locate and center the wooden block over the fabric / tubing and pressing on the block will retard the tendency for the drill bit to walk. It is better to start small with a #40 drill bit used as a pilot drill. Once you have the initial hole, it is very easy to open them up to full rivet size. The hardwood block will eventually wear; but will surely last long enough to complete your task. Good luck.
--------
Jerry King
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=422813#422813
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Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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Jason Omelchuck
Joined: 07 May 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Portland Oregon
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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The way most rudders are constructed on Kolbs is the "ribs" are bent at 90 degrees at the ends and then riveted to the trailing edge of the rudder. When I was messing around with the trim tab on my MKIII, I drilled into the 90 degree bent part and not the trailing edge of the rudder. I also used a couple of #3 screws with nylock nuts to attach it as they required a smaller hole than 1/8 rivets and I could remove it and bend it or make it longer or shorter and put it back on without having to drill the rivets out.
FWIW
Jason
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:56 am Post subject: Uncoordinated flight help! |
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<<remove it and bend it or make it longer or shorter and put it back on
without having to drill the rivets out.>>
A lot easier to use velcro, cut until shaped and satisfied and then rivet.
Pat
FWIW
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