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jblake207(at)comcast.net
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 Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 10:09 am Post subject: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 20 |
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I agree with Mark. I belong to both groups... those who have and those who will..again. Because of that sickening feeling of hearing the belly scraping along the runway, I now check my gear a min of 3 times orally, over the intercom and I even brief my GIB to remind me or ask me about the landing gear. Even with all this… I remain in both groups. Saber
From: "Mark Davis" <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org>
To: "Yak-List" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 11:37:38 AM
Subject: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 2014
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Davis" <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org>
Walt,
I'm a believer in the "those who have and those who will" on gear up
landings. I normally add "and those who will again". Checklists are great,
but distractions have a way of rearing their head on even the most
professional and astute pilots. There's a good reason every Naval Air
Station in the Training Command has a Runway Duty Officer monitoring all
landings. I personally do a landing checklist over the intercom even if I'm
solo on every landing. It's a break in the normal routine that bites most.
So far, I'm in the "those who will" category!
Mark Davis
N44YK
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jblake207(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:42 am Post subject: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 20 |
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Heck yeah, I'll buy a set! Saber
From: "Mark Davis" <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org>
To: "Yak-List" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:30:04 PM
Subject: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 2014
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Davis" <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org>
Duck,
Machine up a batch and they'll sell like hotcakes. ....at least to me!
Every Navy airplane I flew had a gear handle that looked like a wheel, a
flap handle that looked like an airfoil and a tailhook handle that looked
like a tailhook or was clearly marked as such. I never will understand why
the Soviets designed the two with the same look and feel.
Mark Davis
N44YK
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mikecavanagh1(at)hotmail.
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:00 pm Post subject: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 20 |
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Thanks guys…I'll look at it. They were easy easy to make. I think they really help our brain make a correct choice.
On May 21, 2014, at 2:40 PM, jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net) wrote:
[quote]Heck yeah, I'll buy a set! Saber
From: "Mark Davis" <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org (markdavis(at)wbsnet.org)>
To: "Yak-List" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 2:30:04 PM
Subject: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 2014
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Mark Davis" <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org (markdavis(at)wbsnet.org)>
Duck,
Machine up a batch and they'll sell like hotcakes. ....at least to me!
Every Navy airplane I flew had a gear handle that looked like a wheel, a
flap handle that looked like an airfoil and a tailhook handle that looked
like a tailhook or was clearly marked as such. I never will understand why
the Soviets designed the two with the same look and feel.
Mark Davis
N44YK
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 10:10 am Post subject: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 20 |
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The original poster correlated a mortal accident with 11 victims (skydivers) to a simple gear-up landing.
That is untolerable.
Jan
From: doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)>
Reply-To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Date: Friday 23 May 2014 19:12
To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 201
Why, gentlemen do we, more times than not end up pissing off the original poster who I am sure only had the best intentions? If we keep this up the list will be populated only by those who do not believe the the axiom "if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all". After all is said and done, what have you accomplished?
Doug Sapp
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:59 AM, Michael B. Cavanagh <mikecavanagh1(at)hotmail.com (mikecavanagh1(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Michael B. Cavanagh" <mikecavanagh1(at)hotmail.com (mikecavanagh1(at)hotmail.com)>
The point to this website is to share information, not debate and degrade others trying to share good ideas. I agree with you that the shape of the gear handle is no help when you've forgotten there is a handle at all. Staying current and proficient is your best defense. I never said knobs were a cure. Losing SA, and that is what forgetting the gear is about, is helped by being in front of the airplane and not being overly distracted when out of the ordinary things happen. No one is immune to forgetting the gear, and there is no one solution for preventing it. Read my paragraph again. That said, I'm dropping this website and you won't hear from me again, Mr. Mark G. Bitterlich. AMF
On May 23, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:
> --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
>
> I think the point here is that having different shaped knobs can indeed help keep you from grabbing the wrong lever and thinking you put the gear down when it fact you did not. I don't personally believe that is an issue in the Yaks, maybe for the 52? Possible I guess. That said, I don't have any stinking flaps on the YAK-50, so it would not help me one little bit either Michael B. Cavanagh.
>
> The point Keith made is perfectly apt, and that is that ANYONE in ANY make, model, series, of aircraft (unless it is down and welded) can be the victim of landing with the gear up, or not carefully noting that all THREE (or in my case TWO) green lights are on, etc. There have been many cases where I have been on short final and have said to myself: "Did I check the gear or not?" I don't hesitate, I look at them AGAIN. After it has happened to YOU, either some very close call, or actually scraping and skidding down the runway, you tend to become paranoid about it, which is probably a good thing.
>
> Point is, the shape of the knob has no bearing on just simply forgetting to lower the dang gear, which is what Keith was alluding to and did not, in my opinion justify your publically written denigrating response, but then I have been guilty of that as well, so I have no room to talk.
>
> By the way, Keith *IS* one of the smart people.
>
> Mark Bitterlich
> N50YK N66PW
>
> --
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 20 |
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Everything and anything helps, but it never will take away from the simple fact that the most important change to make is the one located between your ears.
While the big topic seems to be different shapes for different controls..... has anyone thought of the proper shape for the AIR VALVE? The one that if left off will end up with a gear up landing? Hmmm.
I switch back and forth between a fixed gear UTVA-66 and a YAK-50 all the time, and every single time I do, I have to wrap my head around the fact that I have to make a total mental attitude change. I understand the flap/gear knob suggestion and it is a good one. But as I mentioned, I have no flaps, and it is STILL an easy thing to do to miss the gear. It goes so far as to include are all THREE of those lights on (in my case 2), or did I just see some "green light".
For ME it was an attitude adjustment. What it was/is for everyone else ... I have no freaking clue.
What I have found of interest is the stories you hear from pilots who have HAD gear up landings. A lot of follks find it very hard to come clean on this, especially when insurance comes into play.
Good luck with the knobs. I hope they save the day. No, really. No amount of money is too much to avoid the alternative.
Mark
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of DaBear [dabear(at)damned.org]
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 4:06 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 2014
My opinion only…..
But plenty of standard airplanes land gear up, or pull the gear up on the ground with those different knobs. While they may help. Sometimes we just make mistakes.
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kingcj6(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 2:26 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Another Yak-52 'gear up' accident in Belgium ... 18 May 2014
At one point, Bill Blackwell was selling a 2.5” red-colored aluminum “wheel” with “GEAR” engraved on the front, machined to fit CJ’s – clearly different than the flap ball/knob in color, size, material and shape. Not sure if it fits the Yaks.
Dave
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