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Kelvin Weston
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK
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 Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 1:34 am Post subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay |
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Hi All,
I know this has been discussed before but I am just preparing the baggage bay for the landing gear reinforcement layups and have a few questions for those that have gone before me and successfully completed this mega task.
The manual states – layup 2 plies of bid over the entire area of the baggage bay up to the level of the top of the centre tunnel.
a) Is this best done in one piece of bid? The manual does not state any preference. What have others done?
b) If done in one piece of bid, is it okay to cut the corner folds and overlap? This would certainly make for a simpler and neater installation and would also increase the number of layers in the corners. Surely a good thing?
I intend to layup the bid on plastic, my normal method for easier handling, before attempting to introduce to the baggage bay.
Next, the manual states - add 2 plies of uni, to the same height, onto the baggage bay rear bulkhead from the sidewall to the central tunnel, with the fibres running spanwise.
c) I am assuming this is just on the inner aft side of the baggage bay box?
Also, there is no mention of any overlap onto the floor, sides or centre tunnel, so just into the corners then?
Interested to hear what others have done for this part of the build and what is considered best practice for this layup.
The fuselage top is still off so slightly easier but the back support belt and pain relief cream are standing by!
Many thanks.
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk |
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JonathanMilbank
Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 391
Location: Aberdeen area
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay |
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About 18 months ago I engaged the services of a well-known expert to do the bulk of this task for me, while I stood nearby and assisted. My aircraft had flown for 15 years as a mono wheel and I wanted to go into retirement with something less challenging for landings and take offs.
So the task was made more difficult by having to remove the fabric lining and associated glue, followed by an enormous amount of rough sanding. Of course all this had to be done with the fuselage top half in place and the wing root linking metalwork already installed.
Anyway, to get to the point. I agree with what you have written, although I can't recall exactly how far the uni extended. It seems to me that the numerous layers of bid are simply to stiffen the existing structure and to provide multiple load paths.
This reply is about as useful as udders on a bull, but I thought that you'd prefer anything rather than a deafening silence. Good luck with the task and bear in mind that it could be a lot worse.
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 3:27 pm Post subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay |
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Kevin,
I normally do the first layup with a single dry ply and dart the corners as in any proper layup technique. I prefer not to see my clients make tapes as it tends to make for more voids and sticky messes when it goes a bit wrong. The uni is applied to the inside of the bay after the bid. During the layup of the dry glass procedure, the sticky initial layer and flox makes placement of the white glass in the dark hole and cutting and darting easier for me. Good sharp shears are essential. In the dry glass layup, you will use more epoxy as gravity works 24/7 so simply peel ply and mop up the excess when done and let it cure. Use just a bit of denatured alcohol if the puddle is getting sticky. Remember to leave a tab to pull the peel ply by.
Go slow, take your time on getting your ply pieces fit well. My clients have me do the cuts as I am faster, but don't trust the manual cutouts, make a template from cardboard and fit it in place. Be sure to leave working room around the mod 52 tube and socket. You will find that the dry glass layups can go fairly fast, but with the top on it is a real back breaker. Get yourself some good cool running LED lights for good visibility (incandescent bulbs make it a very hot job in Florida and the glue kicks very fast) . A small 4 by 4 inch mirror is essential to check for voids and dry bid. In places it is necessary to cut the handle of the brush down and round it off so it doesn't snag anything to get in those corners well.
It is nice to have one person glassing one side, and I on the other, with a helper mixing 100gram cups of epoxy as we go. I've done the project in 4 days but prefer 7.
My back can't take it so I do the inner and outer initial reinforcements on day 1.
Day 2 I do the final line up of the tubes and gear and check everything absolutely right and the aircraft jigged dead solid. Redux in the tubes.
Day 3 I install the first rib and allow to firm up then lay glass over it and allow to cure. (With the top on it may be best to set the rib, peel ply and allow to cure. Glass the next day.
Day 4 is Rib 2 unless I work a long Day 3 and install rib two over tacky glass and bond in both in one day. You gotta be quick and good for that and have a kit with the top off.
Day 5 are Rib 3 and 4
Day 6 grind the tops and clean up, then apply uni. You can pop the gear and finish up or...
Day 7 Pop out the gear, finish the outside layups, and reinstall the gear, pull the fuselage from the jig and put on the brakes and wheels...
Working alone, make it a half a day for 14 days and save your back and make it a more enjoyable easily paced project...
Bob Borger posted how I do my jig setup in my shop, and if memory serves, it took a full two weeks to pull the gear, clean up and put in the tri-gear, we mounted hand brake cylinders in the tunnel per my standard and closed up the belly with new firewall with 4 of us working.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
CFC, Inc.
[quote] Subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay
From: kelv(at)kdweston.biz
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 02:34:23 -0700
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz>
Hi All,
I know this has been discussed before but I am just preparing the baggage bay for the landing gear reinforcement layups and have a few questions for those that have gone before me and successfully completed this mega task.
The manual states – layup 2 plies of bid over the entire area of the baggage bay up to the level of the top of the centre tunnel.
a) Is this best done in one piece of bid? The manual does not state any preference. What have others done?
b) If done in one piece of bid, is it okay to cut the corner folds and overlap? This would certainly make for a simpler and neater installation and would also increase the number of layers in the corners. Surely a good thing?
I intend to layup the bid on plastic, my normal method for easier handling, before attempting to introduce to the baggage bay.
Next, the manual states - add 2 plies of uni, to the same height, onto the baggage bay rear bulkhead from the sidewall to the central tunnel, with the fibres running spanwise.
c) I am assuming this is just on the inner aft side of the baggage bay box?
Also, there is no mention of any overlap onto the floor, sides or centre tunnel, so just into the corners then?
Interested to hear what others have done for this part of the build and what is considered best practice for this layup.
The fuselage top is still off so slightly easier but the back support belt and pain relief cream are standing by!
Many thanks.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv(at)kdweston.biz
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423762#423762
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.c
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay |
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Hi Bud,Quick question, and no doubt an easy one, and I think I know the answer….what is dart the corners?? If its cut and overlap, well you’d end up with double the thickness of plies in the corners to the number of layups, which probably isn’t a bad thing at all. Its a real shame there isn’t some sort of 3 D wand thingo that you can beam around inside the leg wells, and it digitises the interior, and then place your legs accordingly, and digitise them too, and then electronically make up the ply so that it fits perfectly in every corner. Maybe I was born before my time 
Regards
Tony Renshaw
On 26 May 2014, at 9:26 am, Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Kevin,
I normally do the first layup with a single dry ply and dart the corners as in any proper layup technique. I prefer not to see my clients make tapes as it tends to make for more voids and sticky messes when it goes a bit wrong. The uni is applied to the inside of the bay after the bid. During the layup of the dry glass procedure, the sticky initial layer and flox makes placement of the white glass in the dark hole and cutting and darting easier for me. Good sharp shears are essential. In the dry glass layup, you will use more epoxy as gravity works 24/7 so simply peel ply and mop up the excess when done and let it cure. Use just a bit of denatured alcohol if the puddle is getting sticky. Remember to leave a tab to pull the peel ply by.
Go slow, take your time on getting your ply pieces fit well. My clients have me do the cuts as I am faster, but don't trust the manual cutouts, make a template from cardboard and fit it in place. Be sure to leave working room around the mod 52 tube and socket. You will find that the dry glass layups can go fairly fast, but with the top on it is a real back breaker. Get yourself some good cool running LED lights for good visibility (incandescent bulbs make it a very hot job in Florida and the glue kicks very fast) . A small 4 by 4 inch mirror is essential to check for voids and dry bid. In places it is necessary to cut the handle of the brush down and round it off so it doesn't snag anything to get in those corners well.
It is nice to have one person glassing one side, and I on the other, with a helper mixing 100gram cups of epoxy as we go. I've done the project in 4 days but prefer 7.
My back can't take it so I do the inner and outer initial reinforcements on day 1.
Day 2 I do the final line up of the tubes and gear and check everything absolutely right and the aircraft jigged dead solid. Redux in the tubes.
Day 3 I install the first rib and allow to firm up then lay glass over it and allow to cure. (With the top on it may be best to set the rib, peel ply and allow to cure. Glass the next day.
Day 4 is Rib 2 unless I work a long Day 3 and install rib two over tacky glass and bond in both in one day. You gotta be quick and good for that and have a kit with the top off.
Day 5 are Rib 3 and 4
Day 6 grind the tops and clean up, then apply uni. You can pop the gear and finish up or...
Day 7 Pop out the gear, finish the outside layups, and reinstall the gear, pull the fuselage from the jig and put on the brakes and wheels...
Working alone, make it a half a day for 14 days and save your back and make it a more enjoyable easily paced project...
Bob Borger posted how I do my jig setup in my shop, and if memory serves, it took a full two weeks to pull the gear, clean up and put in the tri-gear, we mounted hand brake cylinders in the tunnel per my standard and closed up the belly with new firewall with 4 of us working.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
CFC, Inc.
| Quote: | Subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay
From: kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 02:34:23 -0700
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)>
Hi All,
I know this has been discussed before but I am just preparing the baggage bay for the landing gear reinforcement layups and have a few questions for those that have gone before me and successfully completed this mega task.
The manual states – layup 2 plies of bid over the entire area of the baggage bay up to the level of the top of the centre tunnel.
a) Is this best done in one piece of bid? The manual does not state any preference. What have others done?
b) If done in one piece of bid, is it okay to cut the corner folds and overlap? This would certainly make for a simpler and neater installation and would also increase the number of layers in the corners. Surely a good thing?
I intend to layup the bid on plastic, my normal method for easier handling, before attempting to introduce to the baggage bay.
Next, the manual states - add 2 plies of uni, to the same height, onto the baggage bay rear bulkhead from the sidewall to the central tunnel, with the fibres running spanwise.
c) I am assuming this is just on the inner aft side of the baggage bay box?
Also, there is no mention of any overlap onto the floor, sides or centre tunnel, so just into the corners then?
Interested to hear what others have done for this part of the build and what is considered best practice for this layup.
The fuselage top is still off so slightly easier but the back support belt and pain relief cream are standing by!
Many thanks.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423762#423762
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
|
[quote][b]
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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:05 pm Post subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay |
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|
Kevin,
Check my site at EuropaOwners.org. On the main page ( http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=60232 ) there’s an album in the upper right corner titled Tri-Gear Conversion. It has a fairly complete pictorial documentation of the work at Bud’s shop. Go slow, take your time, it’s a worthwhile conversion to reduce the personal stress of landing to just about zero.
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On May 25, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Kevin,
I normally do the first layup with a single dry ply and dart the corners as in any proper layup technique. I prefer not to see my clients make tapes as it tends to make for more voids and sticky messes when it goes a bit wrong. The uni is applied to the inside of the bay after the bid. During the layup of the dry glass procedure, the sticky initial layer and flox makes placement of the white glass in the dark hole and cutting and darting easier for me. Good sharp shears are essential. In the dry glass layup, you will use more epoxy as gravity works 24/7 so simply peel ply and mop up the excess when done and let it cure. Use just a bit of denatured alcohol if the puddle is getting sticky. Remember to leave a tab to pull the peel ply by.
Go slow, take your time on getting your ply pieces fit well. My clients have me do the cuts as I am faster, but don't trust the manual cutouts, make a template from cardboard and fit it in place. Be sure to leave working room around the mod 52 tube and socket. You will find that the dry glass layups can go fairly fast, but with the top on it is a real back breaker. Get yourself some good cool running LED lights for good visibility (incandescent bulbs make it a very hot job in Florida and the glue kicks very fast) . A small 4 by 4 inch mirror is essential to check for voids and dry bid. In places it is necessary to cut the handle of the brush down and round it off so it doesn't snag anything to get in those corners well.
It is nice to have one person glassing one side, and I on the other, with a helper mixing 100gram cups of epoxy as we go. I've done the project in 4 days but prefer 7.
My back can't take it so I do the inner and outer initial reinforcements on day 1.
Day 2 I do the final line up of the tubes and gear and check everything absolutely right and the aircraft jigged dead solid. Redux in the tubes.
Day 3 I install the first rib and allow to firm up then lay glass over it and allow to cure. (With the top on it may be best to set the rib, peel ply and allow to cure. Glass the next day.
Day 4 is Rib 2 unless I work a long Day 3 and install rib two over tacky glass and bond in both in one day. You gotta be quick and good for that and have a kit with the top off.
Day 5 are Rib 3 and 4
Day 6 grind the tops and clean up, then apply uni. You can pop the gear and finish up or...
Day 7 Pop out the gear, finish the outside layups, and reinstall the gear, pull the fuselage from the jig and put on the brakes and wheels...
Working alone, make it a half a day for 14 days and save your back and make it a more enjoyable easily paced project...
Bob Borger posted how I do my jig setup in my shop, and if memory serves, it took a full two weeks to pull the gear, clean up and put in the tri-gear, we mounted hand brake cylinders in the tunnel per my standard and closed up the belly with new firewall with 4 of us working.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
CFC, Inc.
| Quote: | Subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay
From: kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 02:34:23 -0700
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)>
Hi All,
I know this has been discussed before but I am just preparing the baggage bay for the landing gear reinforcement layups and have a few questions for those that have gone before me and successfully completed this mega task.
The manual states – layup 2 plies of bid over the entire area of the baggage bay up to the level of the top of the centre tunnel.
a) Is this best done in one piece of bid? The manual does not state any preference. What have others done?
b) If done in one piece of bid, is it okay to cut the corner folds and overlap? This would certainly make for a simpler and neater installation and would also increase the number of layers in the corners. Surely a good thing?
I intend to layup the bid on plastic, my normal method for easier handling, before attempting to introduce to the baggage bay.
Next, the manual states - add 2 plies of uni, to the same height, onto the baggage bay rear bulkhead from the sidewall to the central tunnel, with the fibres running spanwise.
c) I am assuming this is just on the inner aft side of the baggage bay box?
Also, there is no mention of any overlap onto the floor, sides or centre tunnel, so just into the corners then?
Interested to hear what others have done for this part of the build and what is considered best practice for this layup.
The fuselage top is still off so slightly easier but the back support belt and pain relief cream are standing by!
Many thanks.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423762#423762
|
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.c
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:10 pm Post subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay |
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|
Hi Bob,Can you tell me if the axles are for 500 series wheels please, and do they have provision for spats, standard??
Regards
Tony Renshaw
On 26 May 2014, at 12:03 pm, Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Kevin,
Check my site at EuropaOwners.org. On the main page ( http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=60232 ) there’s an album in the upper right corner titled Tri-Gear Conversion. It has a fairly complete pictorial documentation of the work at Bud’s shop. Go slow, take your time, it’s a worthwhile conversion to reduce the personal stress of landing to just about zero.
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On May 25, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Kevin,
I normally do the first layup with a single dry ply and dart the corners as in any proper layup technique. I prefer not to see my clients make tapes as it tends to make for more voids and sticky messes when it goes a bit wrong. The uni is applied to the inside of the bay after the bid. During the layup of the dry glass procedure, the sticky initial layer and flox makes placement of the white glass in the dark hole and cutting and darting easier for me. Good sharp shears are essential. In the dry glass layup, you will use more epoxy as gravity works 24/7 so simply peel ply and mop up the excess when done and let it cure. Use just a bit of denatured alcohol if the puddle is getting sticky. Remember to leave a tab to pull the peel ply by.
Go slow, take your time on getting your ply pieces fit well. My clients have me do the cuts as I am faster, but don't trust the manual cutouts, make a template from cardboard and fit it in place. Be sure to leave working room around the mod 52 tube and socket. You will find that the dry glass layups can go fairly fast, but with the top on it is a real back breaker. Get yourself some good cool running LED lights for good visibility (incandescent bulbs make it a very hot job in Florida and the glue kicks very fast) . A small 4 by 4 inch mirror is essential to check for voids and dry bid. In places it is necessary to cut the handle of the brush down and round it off so it doesn't snag anything to get in those corners well.
It is nice to have one person glassing one side, and I on the other, with a helper mixing 100gram cups of epoxy as we go. I've done the project in 4 days but prefer 7.
My back can't take it so I do the inner and outer initial reinforcements on day 1.
Day 2 I do the final line up of the tubes and gear and check everything absolutely right and the aircraft jigged dead solid. Redux in the tubes.
Day 3 I install the first rib and allow to firm up then lay glass over it and allow to cure. (With the top on it may be best to set the rib, peel ply and allow to cure. Glass the next day.
Day 4 is Rib 2 unless I work a long Day 3 and install rib two over tacky glass and bond in both in one day. You gotta be quick and good for that and have a kit with the top off.
Day 5 are Rib 3 and 4
Day 6 grind the tops and clean up, then apply uni. You can pop the gear and finish up or...
Day 7 Pop out the gear, finish the outside layups, and reinstall the gear, pull the fuselage from the jig and put on the brakes and wheels...
Working alone, make it a half a day for 14 days and save your back and make it a more enjoyable easily paced project...
Bob Borger posted how I do my jig setup in my shop, and if memory serves, it took a full two weeks to pull the gear, clean up and put in the tri-gear, we mounted hand brake cylinders in the tunnel per my standard and closed up the belly with new firewall with 4 of us working.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
CFC, Inc.
| Quote: | Subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay
From: kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 02:34:23 -0700
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)>
Hi All,
I know this has been discussed before but I am just preparing the baggage bay for the landing gear reinforcement layups and have a few questions for those that have gone before me and successfully completed this mega task.
The manual states – layup 2 plies of bid over the entire area of the baggage bay up to the level of the top of the centre tunnel.
a) Is this best done in one piece of bid? The manual does not state any preference. What have others done?
b) If done in one piece of bid, is it okay to cut the corner folds and overlap? This would certainly make for a simpler and neater installation and would also increase the number of layers in the corners. Surely a good thing?
I intend to layup the bid on plastic, my normal method for easier handling, before attempting to introduce to the baggage bay.
Next, the manual states - add 2 plies of uni, to the same height, onto the baggage bay rear bulkhead from the sidewall to the central tunnel, with the fibres running spanwise.
c) I am assuming this is just on the inner aft side of the baggage bay box?
Also, there is no mention of any overlap onto the floor, sides or centre tunnel, so just into the corners then?
Interested to hear what others have done for this part of the build and what is considered best practice for this layup.
The fuselage top is still off so slightly easier but the back support belt and pain relief cream are standing by!
Many thanks.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=423762#423762
|
|
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2014 6:25 pm Post subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay |
|
|
Hi again Tony,
Can’t tell if the axles are for 500 series wheels right off the top of my head. Bud could probably answer that quicker than I could.
No, they do not have provisions for spats as standard. I had to make up all the fittings for spats and get wheel nuts for spats.
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On May 25, 2014, at 9:09 PM, Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com (tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Hi Bob,Can you tell me if the axles are for 500 series wheels please, and do they have provision for spats, standard??
Regards
Tony Renshaw
On 26 May 2014, at 12:03 pm, Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Kevin,
Check my site at EuropaOwners.org. On the main page ( http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=60232 ) there’s an album in the upper right corner titled Tri-Gear Conversion. It has a fairly complete pictorial documentation of the work at Bud’s shop. Go slow, take your time, it’s a worthwhile conversion to reduce the personal stress of landing to just about zero.
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On May 25, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Kevin,
I normally do the first layup with a single dry ply and dart the corners as in any proper layup technique. I prefer not to see my clients make tapes as it tends to make for more voids and sticky messes when it goes a bit wrong. The uni is applied to the inside of the bay after the bid. During the layup of the dry glass procedure, the sticky initial layer and flox makes placement of the white glass in the dark hole and cutting and darting easier for me. Good sharp shears are essential. In the dry glass layup, you will use more epoxy as gravity works 24/7 so simply peel ply and mop up the excess when done and let it cure. Use just a bit of denatured alcohol if the puddle is getting sticky. Remember to leave a tab to pull the peel ply by.
Go slow, take your time on getting your ply pieces fit well. My clients have me do the cuts as I am faster, but don't trust the manual cutouts, make a template from cardboard and fit it in place. Be sure to leave working room around the mod 52 tube and socket. You will find that the dry glass layups can go fairly fast, but with the top on it is a real back breaker. Get yourself some good cool running LED lights for good visibility (incandescent bulbs make it a very hot job in Florida and the glue kicks very fast) . A small 4 by 4 inch mirror is essential to check for voids and dry bid. In places it is necessary to cut the handle of the brush down and round it off so it doesn't snag anything to get in those corners well.
It is nice to have one person glassing one side, and I on the other, with a helper mixing 100gram cups of epoxy as we go. I've done the project in 4 days but prefer 7.
My back can't take it so I do the inner and outer initial reinforcements on day 1.
Day 2 I do the final line up of the tubes and gear and check everything absolutely right and the aircraft jigged dead solid. Redux in the tubes.
Day 3 I install the first rib and allow to firm up then lay glass over it and allow to cure. (With the top on it may be best to set the rib, peel ply and allow to cure. Glass the next day.
Day 4 is Rib 2 unless I work a long Day 3 and install rib two over tacky glass and bond in both in one day. You gotta be quick and good for that and have a kit with the top off.
Day 5 are Rib 3 and 4
Day 6 grind the tops and clean up, then apply uni. You can pop the gear and finish up or...
Day 7 Pop out the gear, finish the outside layups, and reinstall the gear, pull the fuselage from the jig and put on the brakes and wheels...
Working alone, make it a half a day for 14 days and save your back and make it a more enjoyable easily paced project...
Bob Borger posted how I do my jig setup in my shop, and if memory serves, it took a full two weeks to pull the gear, clean up and put in the tri-gear, we mounted hand brake cylinders in the tunnel per my standard and closed up the belly with new firewall with 4 of us working.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
CFC, Inc.
| Quote: | Subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay
From: kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 02:34:23 -0700
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)>
Hi All,
I know this has been discussed before but I am just preparing the baggage bay for the landing gear reinforcement layups and have a few questions for those that have gone before me and successfully completed this mega task.
The manual states – layup 2 plies of bid over the entire area of the baggage bay up to the level of the top of the centre tunnel.
a) Is this best done in one piece of bid? The manual does not state any preference. What have others done?
b) If done in one piece of bid, is it okay to cut the corner folds and overlap? This would certainly make for a simpler and neater installation and would also increase the number of layers in the corners. Surely a good thing?
I intend to layup the bid on plastic, my normal method for easier handling, before attempting to introduce to the baggage bay.
Next, the manual states - add 2 plies of uni, to the same height, onto the baggage bay rear bulkhead from the sidewall to the central tunnel, with the fibres running spanwise.
c) I am assuming this is just on the inner aft side of the baggage bay box?
Also, there is no mention of any overlap onto the floor, sides or centre tunnel, so just into the corners then?
Interested to hear what others have done for this part of the build and what is considered best practice for this layup.
The fuselage top is still off so slightly easier but the back support belt and pain relief cream are standing by!
Many thanks.
--------
Regards
Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:21 am Post subject: Landing Gear Layups in Baggage Bay |
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<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]--> Tony,
Yes, you will have overlap, and as you say, it is not a bad thing.
As for 3D thingys... Craftsmanship, is what we learn and show off on our hand built steeds. No fiberglass airplane comes out of the mold and fits perfectly. Your gear angles will not be the same as mine or anyone elses. Trim and fit. The cockpit module changes the fuselage side shape, as does the bulkheads in the rear. The wings shape will be determined by how you put on your skins and if you properly prepped the skins to lay dead flat. I have made paper templates for the install of the bid tapes but not once have they worked flawlessly as we all don't make, hold, or position the tapes the same. I know of no manufacture that makes an aircraft that you shake the box and an airplane falls out. Some of the factory built rag wing aircraft are close as the envelopes can be shrunk to fit. Even the predrilled "just add rivets" aircraft don't fit right all the time, and no cad drawing of one autopilot install works from plane to plane.
If you have to repair a factory built plane such as an SLSA, you will find the new parts don't fit very often. That is why there are sheet metal guys and fiberglass guys to fix this sort of miss match. Not even at Boeings assembly plants do things fit exactly. When major components are assembled, they have skilled, highly paid riggers to fix the problems with the floor engineers looking on.
Enjoy building and learning a craft.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
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