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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:07 am Post subject: antennas

I would be grateful if one of you experts in radio matters 

could tell me whether one can add a couple of metres of 

good quality coax cable to distance the stub antenna of a 

hand held Icom transceiver from the radio, positioning the 

stub aerial on top of the fuselage behind the pilot, 

without mucking up its function. I hasten to add that this 

is not for my Europa but for a Build a Plane project I am 

involved in which will rely on an Icom, but which picks up 

a load of ignition noise if positioned on the panel, just 

behind the engine.

Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ

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rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 796

Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 7:51 am Post subject: Re: antennas

Hi David



The rubber duckie antenna is not all that good of an antenna. I have fooled with extending mine aft on the Europa and reception on the ground and performance was poor at best, no worst than when it was directly on the unit.



A better solution for me was AAE and Balsa. It ends up weighing under 4 oz. and works about 70% as well for both VOR and Communication.



http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=31216



Ron Parigoris

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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 9:44 am Post subject: antennas

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Hash: SHA1



On 05/30/2014 05:06 PM, David Joyce wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I would be grateful if one of you experts in radio matters could

 tell me whether one can add a couple of metres of good quality coax

 cable to distance the stub antenna of a hand held Icom transceiver

 from the radio, positioning the stub aerial on top of the fuselage

 behind the pilot, without mucking up its function.


	


Yes you can do that, provided you create some artificial ground at the

antenna connector (unless the airplane is made of metal). On the

radio, the radio itself plus the person holding the radio are some

kind of ground, but if you relocate the antenna you need something

below the antenna to take over that function. (If you don't, the outer

shield of the coax will take over that function, but this is probably

not what you want).

Note that the stub antenna of the hand held radio has less performance

than a full quarter wave antenna. (Inside this stub antenna you will

find a coil; it is still a quarter wave antenna but most of the length

has been coiled up and doesn't radiate as much anymore.)



Frans



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europa-list(at)matronics.
Guest

Posted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:03 pm Post subject: antennas

I used a 4 or 5 foot extension intended for a GPS Antenna which ends up with with a window sucker plugged in to Icom one end and the Icom Antenna plugged in the window sucker end.  Works perfectly used as stand by com.

Dave



Sent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 30 May 2014, at 18:47, "Frans Veldman" <frans(at)privatepilots.nl> wrote:

 

 

 

 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

 Hash: SHA1

 

> On 05/30/2014 05:06 PM, David Joyce wrote:

> 

> I would be grateful if one of you experts in radio matters could

> tell me whether one can add a couple of metres of good quality coax

> cable to distance the stub antenna of a hand held Icom transceiver

> from the radio, positioning the stub aerial on top of the fuselage

> behind the pilot, without mucking up its function.

 

 Yes you can do that, provided you create some artificial ground at the

 antenna connector (unless the airplane is made of metal). On the

 radio, the radio itself plus the person holding the radio are some

 kind of ground, but if you relocate the antenna you need something

 below the antenna to take over that function. (If you don't, the outer

 shield of the coax will take over that function, but this is probably

 not what you want).

 Note that the stub antenna of the hand held radio has less performance

 than a full quarter wave antenna. (Inside this stub antenna you will

 find a coil; it is still a quarter wave antenna but most of the length

 has been coiled up and doesn't radiate as much anymore.)

 

 Frans

 

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 Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux)

 

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 =/4la

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:07 pm Post subject: antennas

I put a full wave loop antenna in to run a hand held scanner in mine a/c works a LOT better than the stubby antenna

Get excellent reception afis, ground and atc at the nearest airport about 40km away, I get nothing with the stubby antenna

Its on about 4m of coax to get to the loop



Regards

craig

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:38 am Post subject: antennas

Craig, That sounds very interesting. Can you explain how 

you did it, please? David Joyce, G- XSDJ



On Sun, 1 Jun 2014 09:34:30 +1000

  "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

<craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>

 

 I put a full wave loop antenna in to run a hand held 

scanner in mine a/c works a LOT better than the stubby 

antenna

 Get excellent reception afis, ground and atc at the 

nearest airport about 40km away, I get nothing with the 

stubby antenna

 Its on about 4m of coax to get to the loop

 

 Regards

 craig

 

 

 

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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:05 am Post subject: antennas

Craig and others.

My Sportys SP400 with ear piece hooked to my headset works great at low 

altitude line of sight with the rubber duckie.

For long range communications using a handheld radio in our IFR aircraft we 

use an Advanced Aircraft Electronics carbon fiber antenna ($120 US). Just 

add a coax to the passenger headrest and you have an easy to grab and use 

handheld antenna that is clear and able to go line of sight over 50 nm. 

VOR/Localizer operations work very well, but I wouldn't fly an approach on 

it.



In other aircraft, the ELT becomes a pain to make a ground plane for, then 

make a mount for the whip antenna, then secure it, etc.  I now use the AAE 

antenna for that also.  In one aircraft, the customer asked me to put his 

ELT coax into the headrest and break the coax there for his handheld, just 

in case he needs his handheld.  Not recommended, but it works.



The antenna is added just behind the bulkhead (basically aligned on an angle 

with the bulkhead) curving along the fuselage.  Works great even up to a 45 

degree angle.  VHF NAV antennas work very well centered on the top inside of 

the fuselage bent around the bulkhead.  I prefer to install them just behind 

the doors as the curve is wider, and the reception on VOR/Localizer/GS with 

a splitter is excellent.



Of course you can save some money and build an antenna, but to me, in 30 

minutes, I'm done.  Hooked up but held up until the flox cures.  ( I use 

super glue to tack the antenna in place until the flox dries.)  It takes 

longer to undo the D panel, and put in my belly board to slide in the rear 

than it takes to put the antenna in. (Don't forget to block the tail up in a 

trigear!)   If you made your conduits large enough for upgrades, you have no 

problem.  If you didn't, run the coax through the tunnel, along the front of 

the tank and up into the headrest.  Secure it well as you are near cables 

and flight controls.  Great annual project.



Just my thoughts.



Regards,

Bud Yerly

--------------------------------------------------

From: "craig" <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au>

Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2014 7:34 PM

To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: antennas



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I put a full wave loop antenna in to run a hand held scanner in mine a/c 

 works a LOT better than the stubby antenna

 Get excellent reception afis, ground and atc at the nearest airport about 

 40km away, I get nothing with the stubby antenna

 Its on about 4m of coax to get to the loop



 Regards

 craig

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mau11(at)orange.fr
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:17 pm Post subject: antennas

Hi Ron,

Do you have exact drawing and size of your antenna available?

Many thanks

Michel AUVRAY

Builder 145 - 550 hours fly



On 30/05/2014 17:51, rparigoris wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi David



 The rubber duckie antenna is not all that good of an antenna. I have fooled with extending mine aft on the Europa and reception on the ground and performance was poor at best, no worst than when it was directly on the unit.



 A better solution for me was AAE and Balsa. It ends up weighing under 4 oz. and works about 70% as well for both VOR and Communication.



 http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=31216



 Ron Parigoris





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424Hi Ron,

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rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 796

Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: antennas

Hi Michel



Here's a link to Aircraft Spruce:

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/antenna_elt/antennasystems.php

Click diagram to get the dimensions.



Here's AAE's website:

http://www.advancedaircraft.com/



The difference between the two is  the direction the cable attaches.



I used 1/4" thick Balsa the exact size of antenna.



You can read step by step what I did, start here and keep clicking next:

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=31222



Ron Parigoris

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