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Bajajim
Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 30
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 Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:22 am Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Don,
I have standard 2 blade 260hp Lyc. Running at 2300 /17 to 18 inches and regularly get 8-9 GPH at 10,500, 150 to 160 knts Ground Speed.
What speed and alt are you cruising at with 2200 RPM’s?
Jim Villani
Cell: (702) 379 5524
Fax: (702) 946-1185
Email: Jim(at)Sold702.com (Jim(at)JimVillani.com)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don McDonald
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 8:56 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
OK, here's my 2 cents.
When people are comparing the props and give numbers on speed differences, that is wide open throttle and rpm.
I've raced my 3 blade MT against 8 RV10's, 7 with 2 blade hartzell's, one with a 3 blade, but not MT, and beat them all. Ok, so I have more ponies.... but it's smoother, climbs at least as well, and who flies flat out all the time anyway. I'm able to cruise at roughly the same speed, but am able to run lower MP (18-19) and RPM settings (2,000 to 2,200), and have found no other 10 that gets as good of fuel mileage as I get. (9.5 to 10.3)
Latest test was on a long trip in the 10 with a brand new RV8 with a new IO-390.... at 10,500', I heard those wonderful words from the 8 "you're pulling me".
Just remember if it seems smoother to you, it's easier on everything, the engine, the airframe, the avionics, etc.
Don McDonald
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)>
To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)>
I meant 5-7kts faster . I continue to use the MT governor. It works great. Robert
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Jun 1, 2014, at 9:06 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>
Please explain the 5gph gain????
No question a 3 blade will be more expensive to repair and overhaul.
I would expect vibration and noise to be somewhat less with the MT.
Agreed climb is very good either way.
The MT governor is less money than the PCU-500. Haven't heard any strong reason to choose one over the other.
> On 6/1/2014 2:00 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:
> I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net) <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)>> wrote:
>>
>> The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.
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ron(at)touchtronics.com
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Hi All,
On one of my tech calls to Vans I asked if they saw/measure much difference
between the two bladed and three bladed prop on a RV10 with the 540 engine.
The person I spoke with said they had done a test run with two RV10s, flying
next to each other, one with 2-blades and one with 3-blades (same 540
engines).
Their option was that the overall performs was better with the 2-blades over
the 3-blades.
As I remember they said the top speed, rate of climb and fuel economy were
all slightly better with the 2-blades. The 3-blades was a little quieter
than 2-blades.
They blamed the added air friction from the 3-blades lowered the overall
performance for the RV10.
I'm starting to install the finishing kit, then on to the prop and engine.
Regards, Ron Mathia
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gary(at)bendun.net
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:55 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I recall reading (eons ago) study results, that showed the most efficient
propeller would be very long, single blade, turning very slowly. Not
terribly practical, but using the same reasoning, 2-blades will be more
efficient than 3.
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
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jjessen01
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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You might send a note asking about this to Rob Hickman, who I believe is
using a 3-blade. He might have some data to share.
John J
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:20 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I flew with Rob a few years ago. I asked him then and he said he was about 7 kts slower with that prop, IIRC.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
www.mavericklsa.com
C: 352-427-0285
O: 352-465-4545
F: 815-377-3694
Sent from my iPhone
[quote] On Jun 2, 2014, at 4:03 PM, "John Jessen" <n212pj(at)gmail.com> wrote:
You might send a note asking about this to Rob Hickman, who I believe is
using a 3-blade. He might have some data to share.
John J
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:22 pm Post subject: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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| gary(at)bendun.net wrote: | I recall reading (eons ago) study results, that showed the most efficient
propeller would be very long, single blade, turning very slowly. Not
terribly practical, but using the same reasoning, 2-blades will be more
efficient than 3.
Gary Bennett
http://bendun.net/
http://photos.bendun.net/
-- |
Yes. It's the tip losses. Same reason you build mono-planes instead of bi-planes for speed, in general. I recall at least one prop manufacturer tried to put "winglets" at the prop tips. ("Q prop" I think it was called).
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Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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I have a two-blade, and I fly a friend's -10 with an MT three-blade from time to time. Â We agree with the herd on the benefits of each. Â I will say that his -10 is eerily smooth. Â At speed it feels like a jet, no kidding. Â No sensation of rotating prop or engine whatsoever. Â It's kind of weird, but I could defiantly get used to it...if I could only reproduce it on another plane. Â He has a balanced Barrett engine, so between that and the MT, and a good prop balance, the result is stunning.
Other three-blades I've flown don't seem any smoother than a two.
--Dave
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>
So as I see it the answer is.....
All these props are close enough to each other that only a direct A-B test (change props on the same airplane) can tell the difference. So far as I see only Robert has actually done that, and he seems to confirm the folklore:
2 blade: least expensive, fastest cruise.
3 blade: best climb performance, quieter and smoother.
Fro the record, I have the 2 blade Hartzell and Hartzell governor straight from Vans, and am happy with both.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=424219#424219
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jjessen01
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:36 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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That’s what I’ve heard, that the smoothness is the ultimate benefit of the 3-blad. I’m thinking of that for my Star. Plus, it’s just looks great.Â
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Saylor
Sent: Monday, June 02, 2014 3:38 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
I have a two-blade, and I fly a friend's -10 with an MT three-blade from time to time. We agree with the herd on the benefits of each. I will say that his -10 is eerily smooth. At speed it feels like a jet, no kidding. No sensation of rotating prop or engine whatsoever. It's kind of weird, but I could defiantly get used to it...if I could only reproduce it on another plane. He has a balanced Barrett engine, so between that and the MT, and a good prop balance, the result is stunning.
Other three-blades I've flown don't seem any smoother than a two.
--Dave
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:
| Quote: | | [/b][/b][/b][b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List[b] |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:59 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Why would a composite prop with a hard metal leading edge be at any more risk on a gravel runway than an aluminum prop? While a nick in an aluminum prop creates risk of a stress riser and cracking, that generally is not the case for a small dent in metal edge of composite prop.
Any one that operates on gravel knows to ease in power and not to go to full power until well above taxi speed. Ground clearance is an issue with gravel runways, but the RV-10 has better than average prop clearance IIRC.
On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 9:48 AM, Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I went to the Northwest Territories with my MT prop and could not go to kuglutuk north of the arctic circle because the gravel runways might damage the prop and there was no way to file them and fly out of there. They have that limitation. IMHO
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | OK, here's my 2 cents.
When people are comparing the props and give numbers on speed differences, that is wide open throttle and rpm.
I've raced my 3 blade MT against 8 RV10's, 7 with 2 blade hartzell's, one with a 3 blade, but not MT, and beat them all. Ok, so I have more ponies... but it's smoother, climbs at least as well, and who flies flat out all the time anyway. I'm able to cruise at roughly the same speed, but am able to run lower MP (18-19) and RPM settings (2,000 to 2,200), and have found no other 10 that gets as good of fuel mileage as I get. (9.5 to 10.3)
Latest test was on a long trip in the 10 with a brand new RV8 with a new IO-390.... at 10,500', I heard those wonderful words from the 8 "you're pulling me".
Just remember if it seems smoother to you, it's easier on everything, the engine, the airframe, the avionics, etc.
Don McDonald
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)> To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:17 PM Subject: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)> I meant 5-7kts faster . I continue to use the MT governor. It works great. Robert
Sent from my iPhone> On Jun 1, 2014, at 9:06 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote: > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>> > Please explain the 5gph gain????> No question a 3 blade will be more expensive to repair and overhaul.> I would expect vibration and noise to be somewhat less with the MT.> Agreed climb is very good either way.> The MT governor is less money than the PCU-500. Haven't heard any strong reason to choose one over the other. > >> On 6/1/2014 2:00 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:>> I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer >> >> Sent from my iPhone>> >>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net) <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)>> wrote: >>> >>> The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.> > > > >
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matr========
| Quote: |
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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[quote][b]
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:24 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Robert
I did that trip two years ago in my now sold PA28/180. If the four a/c on the trip, one took a nasty ding from a stone. Fortunately we had a file to dress it out.
By the way, we made it to Inuvik / Tutayaktuk (so?) over Victoria Island to Cambridge Bay while stafing the DEW Line sites. South from there to Yellowknife and home to Edmonton. It was a great trip.
I wouldn't take a composite prop out of concern, real or imagined, that stones could do.
Cheers
Les
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:48 AM, Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)> wrote:
[quote]I went to the Northwest Territories with my MT prop and could not go to kuglutuk north of the arctic circle because the gravel runways might damage the prop and there was no way to file them and fly out of there. They have that limitation. IMHO
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 2, 2014, at 10:55 AM, Don McDonald <building_partner(at)yahoo.com (building_partner(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | OK, here's my 2 cents.
When people are comparing the props and give numbers on speed differences, that is wide open throttle and rpm.
I've raced my 3 blade MT against 8 RV10's, 7 with 2 blade hartzell's, one with a 3 blade, but not MT, and beat them all. Ok, so I have more ponies.... but it's smoother, climbs at least as well, and who flies flat out all the time anyway. I'm able to cruise at roughly the same speed, but am able to run lower MP (18-19) and RPM settings (2,000 to 2,200), and have found no other 10 that gets as good of fuel mileage as I get. (9.5 to 10.3)
Latest test was on a long trip in the 10 with a brand new RV8 with a new IO-390.... at 10,500', I heard those wonderful words from the 8 "you're pulling me".
Just remember if it seems smoother to you, it's easier on everything, the engine, the airframe, the avionics, etc.
Don McDonald
From: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)> To: "rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)> Sent: Sunday, June 1, 2014 9:17 PM Subject: Re: Propeller / Governor Recommendations
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Brunkenhoefer <robertbrunk(at)mac.com (robertbrunk(at)mac.com)>I meant 5-7kts faster . I continue to use the MT governor. It works great. RobertSent from my iPhone> On Jun 1, 2014, at 9:06 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>> > Please explain the 5gph gain????> No question a 3 blade will be more expensive to repair and overhaul.> I would expect vibration and noise to be somewhat less with the MT.> Agreed climb is very good either way.> The MT governor is less money than the PCU-500. Haven't heard any strong reason to choose one over the other.> >> On 6/1/2014 2:00 PM, Robert Brunkenhoefer wrote:>> I agree the 2 blade is best. I have had a MT and now fly w/ the vans 2blade. FOD caused so much damage to the MT I had to send it to Florida for O/h. Ins pd for 1blade. Had to replace all.very $$$. KISS. You'll be glad you did . Lost climb rate of 500fpm but gained 5gph . I fly out of Ruidoso.6800ft no problem with Vans prop. N661G kcrp. 750 and loving it. Robert Brunkenhoefer>> >> Sent from my iPhone>> >>> On Jun 1, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net) <mailto:carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)>> wrote:>>> >>> The Van’s two blade Hartzell blended airfoil is, my opinion, the best performance value out there.> > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matr========
| Quote: |
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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| Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: Propeller / Governor Recommendations |
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Hi
Thanks for all the great info. I think I will go with the PCU5000x and Hartzell two blade prop
I'll hold off ordering the prop until after KOSH in case there is something new there but I suspect there won't be.
Cheers
Les
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