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Tyco W31 switch / breaker

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deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:52 pm Post subject: Tyco W31 switch / breaker

I am in the process of refurbishing the panel in my aircraft, which uses 

Tyco W31 switch/breakers for some items 

(https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/pbcircuitbrkr2.php). I 

noticed that the W31 terminals are labeled "Line", which I presume is 

for the electrical bus, and "Load", which I presume is for the device 

being switched.



However, the person that wired this aircraft originally hooked them up 

backwards, with the copper bus bar connected to the "Load" terminal, and 

the devices being switched connected to the "Line" terminal.



My question is, does it really matter?



If it does, now would be the time to rewire since I have it all apart, 

however, the way it is hooked up at present does make for a neater and 

cleaner installation.  It has been flying this way for over 15 years, 

but if it is "wrong", then I should probably make it "right".



Thanks,



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

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sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:26 pm Post subject: Tyco W31 switch / breaker

It doesn't matter.   These are thermal breakers so current direction can run either way.  



Vern 



====================================================

Sent from my iThing. It is responsible for all gramma and typo terrors.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 7, 2014, at 5:50 PM, Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 I am in the process of refurbishing the panel in my aircraft, which uses Tyco W31 switch/breakers for some items (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/pbcircuitbrkr2.php). I noticed that the W31 terminals are labeled "Line", which I presume is for the electrical bus, and "Load", which I presume is for the device being switched.

 

 However, the person that wired this aircraft originally hooked them up backwards, with the copper bus bar connected to the "Load" terminal, and the devices being switched connected to the "Line" terminal.

 

 My question is, does it really matter?

 

 If it does, now would be the time to rewire since I have it all apart, however, the way it is hooked up at present does make for a neater and cleaner installation.  It has been flying this way for over 15 years, but if it is "wrong", then I should probably make it "right".

 

 Thanks,

 

 -Dj

 

 -- 

 Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

 Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

 Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

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Eric M. Jones

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Tyco W31 switch / breaker

 	  Quote: 	
		  However, the person that wired this aircraft originally hooked them up 

backwards, with the copper bus bar connected to the "Load" terminal, and 

the devices being switched connected to the "Line" terminal. 

My question is, does it really matter? 	




Some plumber installed an angle valve that had an arrow on the body. He installed it with the arrow pointing in the wrong direction. How did I learn this? Because the water pressure kept the valve washer stuck to the valve seat so opening the valve unscrewed the washer retaining screw. The valve quit working. 



Electricians know that a 3-wire flexible cord can only be attached to one end of the cord. Although you might think that a power cord comes out of each end identically, they are actually mirror images. Only one end installs onto (for example) hospital-grade plugs.



MAYBE W31 circuit breakers have a proper line and load connection orientation because the conducting parts, arc suppression, hi-voltage withstand, inductive load, capacitance, wet operation, voltage breakdown to ground (or to the toggle), electrical approvals, or God-knows-what-else behaves somewhat differently in the opposite direction.



Maybe this matters and maybe not. But if it doesn't matter, why did they mark it that way? Only the P&B/Tyco engineers can tell you and it would certainly be worth an email to find out.



Please share it with us.

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_________________
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones(at)charter.net

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:06 pm Post subject: Tyco W31 switch / breaker

On 6/8/2014 12:41 PM, Eric M. Jones wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Only the P&B/Tyco engineers can tell you and it would certainly be worth an email to find out.


	


         True, but I had my doubts that I'd find out the answer over the 

weekend, and waiting until Monday would have cost me an entire day's 

worth of work on the plane.  With the collective wisdom of this group, I 

figured I had a chance that someone might know.



 	  Quote: 	
		   MAYBE W31 circuit breakers have a proper line and load connection orientation because the conducting parts, arc suppression, hi-voltage withstand, inductive load, capacitance, wet operation, voltage breakdown to ground (or to the toggle), electrical approvals, or God-knows-what-else behaves somewhat differently in the opposite direction.




	


     Yes, this paralleled my own thoughts, and the first thing I did 

this morning was to re-wire everything the "right" way.  It cost a 

couple of hours of effort, but my anal-retentiveness kept bugging me so 

it was worth it.  Even if they were fine the other way, now my I's are 

crossed and my T's are dotted...  



     Thanks for the replies, guys!



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

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sprocket(at)vx-aviation.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:37 pm Post subject: Tyco W31 switch / breaker

Furthermore, if it was important it would be specified in the datasheet, 

which it is not.  Even the writing on the breaker is not specified, so it's 

technically not part of the device.

If you used a breaker to tie two electrical buses together and it had a 

polarity, what would you do?  It doesn't matter with these guys.



Vern



--

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deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:33 am Post subject: Tyco W31 switch / breaker

On 06/08/2014 11:40 PM, Vern Little wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Furthermore, if it was important it would be specified in the datasheet,

 which it is not.  Even the writing on the breaker is not specified, so

 it's technically not part of the device.

 If you used a breaker to tie two electrical buses together and it had a

 polarity, what would you do?  It doesn't matter with these guys.


	


Also interesting, if you look at the picture at the top of the

datasheet, it does NOT have the terminals labeled at all.



https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/tycoBreakers.pdf



I have sent an email to Tyco tech support for clarification.



(now thinking about putting it back the way it was...  *sigh* )



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

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deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:04 am Post subject: Tyco W31 switch / breaker

On 06/09/2014 10:31 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have sent an email to Tyco tech support for clarification.


	


and the official response from Tyco is:



"Electrically it makes no difference to the breaker if line and load are

swapped.

But if you require UL approval on your product it must be wire line and

load."



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

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jluckey(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:18 am Post subject: Tyco W31 switch / breaker

Ah ha! A regulatory requirement.  That explains it.

Through the years I have seen lots of those breakers installed, and installed many myself, and never been concerned about the polarity.  Never had a problem.

Dj - thanks for following thru & getting the official response - very informative.

-Jeff



 

     On Monday, June 9, 2014 8:16 AM, Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net> wrote:

  

  



 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net (deej(at)deej.net)>



On 06/09/2014 10:31 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have sent an email to Tyco tech support for clarification.


	


and the official response from Tyco is:



"Electrically it makes no difference to the breaker if line and load are

swapped.

But if you require UL approval on your product it must be wire line and

load."



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glaric-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric --> http://forums.matr                     &nbs//www.matronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co==================

  

 

  

 

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