 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
CaptainRon1(at)cox.net
Guest
|
 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
 |
|
As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol
washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any
such danger.
My test is about as scientific as can be, in other words repeatable
by anyone following my procedures.
two aluminum tabs .025 identical.
Two Dixie cups clear plastic.
Two separate types of oil tested, Mobil-1 5W-30, and Philips X/C
20-50 aviation oil.
Drained 100LL avgas into Dixie cup.
Poured E-85 into Dixie cup.
Applied AvOil to both alum tabs.
Inserted one tab one into Avgas, and one into E-85.
Lifted both tabs out after 30 seconds.
Tab into E-85 had most of the oil still on it except that which by
force of gravity drained to bottom of Dixie cup.
Tab into avgas was clean of oil. rubbed tab a bit to see if there is
any oil film on it, could not tell any difference, from the bare alum
and previously coated parts.
Repeated experiment a couple of times including swishing the tabs in
the fuels. In all cases the tab in the Avgas was washed clean and the
tab into the E-85 still had oil on it.
The test with the Mobil-1 had the same results with the difference
that the Mobil-1 was even harder to wash off with the Ethanol.
In fact I had to wash the Ethanol tab in the Avefuel to clean it so
it would not stain the box I keep my scrap alum in.
Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way
longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal.
I am still checking on rubber parts. I put an O-ring #14 into the
ethanol jar, also a piece of Fuel injection hose, and a silicon
gasket. Wrote Jun-19-06 on it and put it aside.
Ron
Arizona
==================================================
[quote]
Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities
have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol
permitted at all
Vince Hallam
please phone rather than email for best results!
07941 313141
01803 316191
www.devonwindmills.co.uk
---
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CaptainRon1(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
|
|
As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol
washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any
such danger.
My test is about as scientific as can be, in other words repeatable
by anyone following my procedures.
two aluminum tabs .025 identical.
Two Dixie cups clear plastic.
Two separate types of oil tested, Mobil-1 5W-30, and Philips X/C
20-50 aviation oil.
Drained 100LL avgas into Dixie cup.
Poured E-85 into Dixie cup.
Applied AvOil to both alum tabs.
Inserted one tab one into Avgas, and one into E-85.
Lifted both tabs out after 30 seconds.
Tab into E-85 had most of the oil still on it except that which by
force of gravity drained to bottom of Dixie cup.
Tab into avgas was clean of oil. rubbed tab a bit to see if there is
any oil film on it, could not tell any difference, from the bare alum
and previously coated parts.
Repeated experiment a couple of times including swishing the tabs in
the fuels. In all cases the tab in the Avgas was washed clean and the
tab into the E-85 still had oil on it.
The test with the Mobil-1 had the same results with the difference
that the Mobil-1 was even harder to wash off with the Ethanol.
In fact I had to wash the Ethanol tab in the Avefuel to clean it so
it would not stain the box I keep my scrap alum in.
Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way
longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal.
I am still checking on rubber parts. I put an O-ring #14 into the
ethanol jar, also a piece of Fuel injection hose, and a silicon
gasket. Wrote Jun-19-06 on it and put it aside.
Ron
Arizona
==================================================
[quote]
Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities
have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol
permitted at all
Vince Hallam
please phone rather than email for best results!
07941 313141
01803 316191
www.devonwindmills.co.uk
---
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CaptainRon1(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
|
|
I need to add that the temperature in the hanger was near 100f.
If someone wants to repeat the experiment and he is in the arctic
then you will have oil remaining on both tabs with the 30 second
immersion test, but likely not with the swishing test. In the
combustion chamber the temps are higher.
| Quote: |
Ron
Arizona
==================================================
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rlaird
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
|
|
I just LUV the scientific method! hehehehe
Really!
-- Robert
On 6/19/06, Ron <CaptainRon1(at)cox.net> wrote:
[quote]
As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol
washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any
such danger.
My test is about as scientific as can be, in other words repeatable
by anyone following my procedures.
two aluminum tabs .025 identical.
Two Dixie cups clear plastic.
Two separate types of oil tested, Mobil-1 5W-30, and Philips X/C
20-50 aviation oil.
Drained 100LL avgas into Dixie cup.
Poured E-85 into Dixie cup.
Applied AvOil to both alum tabs.
Inserted one tab one into Avgas, and one into E-85.
Lifted both tabs out after 30 seconds.
Tab into E-85 had most of the oil still on it except that which by
force of gravity drained to bottom of Dixie cup.
Tab into avgas was clean of oil. rubbed tab a bit to see if there is
any oil film on it, could not tell any difference, from the bare alum
and previously coated parts.
Repeated experiment a couple of times including swishing the tabs in
the fuels. In all cases the tab in the Avgas was washed clean and the
tab into the E-85 still had oil on it.
The test with the Mobil-1 had the same results with the difference
that the Mobil-1 was even harder to wash off with the Ethanol.
In fact I had to wash the Ethanol tab in the Avefuel to clean it so
it would not stain the box I keep my scrap alum in.
Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way
longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal.
I am still checking on rubber parts. I put an O-ring #14 into the
ethanol jar, also a piece of Fuel injection hose, and a silicon
gasket. Wrote Jun-19-06 on it and put it aside.
Ron
Arizona
==================================================
>
>
>Perhaps pat can give us a run down on what the UK authorities
>have said about tolerating Mogas up to 6000 feet, but no ethanol
>permitted at all
>Vince Hallam
>please phone rather than email for best results!
>07941 313141
>01803 316191
>www.devonwindmills.co.uk
>---
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dominique
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 6
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
|
|
| CaptainRon1(at)cox.net wrote: | As someone earlier (BJ) posted about the possibility of Ethanol
washing off oil from cylinder walls I had to find out if there is any
such danger....
Because of this I am certain that any motor using E-85 will last way
longer than any motor using Petro fuel all else being equal.
I am still checking on rubber parts. --- |
Ron,
Your test is very interesting, but your conclusions are way off and misguided. The fact that Ethanol 85 reacts so much differently with oil is a huge cause for concern. Your test seems to indicate that the Ethanol does not dissolve oil as well as regular gasoline, which makes me wonder if 2 stroke oil will mix well with Ethanol 85. Our 2 stroke engines and 2 stroke oil were all designed for non Ethanol gasoline that mixed very well the oil. There may be some very undesirable effects now that this has changed. I just cannot comprehend how you came to such a glowing positive conclusion from the excellent tests you did. Everyone needs to be very careful with this new fuel.
Dominique
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject: E-85 Ethanol lubricity test results. |
|
|
I did not test for a 2 cycle motor. I tested mostly for my Suzuki motor 4
stroke, and my Automobiles. I also pointed that out in subsequent post that
I would not use E-85 in a 2 cycle motor (including my Yamaha motorcycle). I
am also guessing that most plant based oil if any for motor vehicles, will
mix well with E-85. But before I were to use any E-85 with any oil in a 2
cycle motor I would do a test. Unless there is already a recommended oil for
the Ethanol based fuels. What I would do is use a glass jar fill it half
with 2 cycle oil and half with E-85 and then shake it till it is well mixed.
Then I'd let it sit over night and see if it separates. I use half so as to
see a more striking separation between the fluids if any.
Again my test was for a 4 stroke and my conclusion was for a 4 stroke motor,
not for a two cycle motor.
Ron
Arizona
=======================
--
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
