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Garmin 296 - Dynon D10A T+B (or TC)?

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rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.N
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: Garmin 296 - Dynon D10A T+B (or TC)?

I have been following the thread bout the difference between a TC and T+B.



On the panel page of a Garmin 296, does the little aeroplane with wings

give information close to a T+B (or TC)? 



On a Dynon D10A they have a Primary function called Turn Rate, is the

information given close to a T+B (or TC)?



Thx.

Ron Parigoris

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khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: Garmin 296 - Dynon D10A T+B (or TC)?

On 23 Jun 2006, at 02:55, <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>  

<rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have been following the thread bout the difference between a TC  

 and T+B.



 On the panel page of a Garmin 296, does the little aeroplane with  

 wings

 give information close to a T+B (or TC)?



 On a Dynon D10A they have a Primary function called Turn Rate, is the

 information given close to a T+B (or TC)?




	


I believe the Garmin 296 just looks at the rate of change of the GPS  

track, and then if the track is changing it will bank the little  

airplane symbol.  It would be interesting to see what it showed in a  

spin, where the aircraft track was essentially straight down.



The Dynon Turn rate function is somewhat similar to a T+B.  But, if  

any of the measured rates (i.e. pitch rate, roll yate or yaw rate) go  

high enough the unit senses that the rate gyros may have been  

saturated.  Then it changes the display to sort of a grey on black to  

tell you that it is no longer really sure what the attitude is.  The  

turn rate bar might be harder to see if this happens, as it might in  

a spin.

Kevin Horton         RV-8 (finishing kit)

Ottawa, Canada

http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8

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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:22 am Post subject: Garmin 296 - Dynon D10A T+B (or TC)?

Good Morning Ron,   

 The information given on the 296 is strictly yaw in relation to the ground  track, not the heading. 

  

 I believe Garmin made a mistake when they made it look like a TC  because it will NOT show roll.  Showing a T&B needle would have been  closer, but it would still not be correct. I doubt very much that it would be of  any use for a recovery from a spin. It may or may not be usable for a recovery  from a well developed grave yard spiral.

  

 I have done flight testing using no other instrumentation other than the  handheld GPS Garmin 196, 295 and 296. the tests were conducted in a late model  Bonanza. All instruments were covered by placing a blanket over my head so that  nothing could be seen except the handheld.

  

 The safety pilot then put the airplane in as extreme attitudes as he felt  were safe. We found that I had little trouble bringing the airplane back to a  designated altitude and heading.

  

 Please recognize that I do maintain reasonable proficiency in normal  partial panel flight and I was flying an airplane with which I am very  familiar.

  

 \While I had no skid - slip indication other than the seat of my pants, I  did use that sense as well as I could.

  

 I found the 296 to be the easiest to use. All three were usable, but I have  doubts as to how well I would do if the aircraft was really in trouble and  I had already lost my equilibrium before I went to the handheld. I do believe it  would be fairly easy to handle a situation where I was on top and needed to  descend through an overcast or one where the failure was noted  in time to  revert to the backup before control was lost.

  

 I think it would have been better if Garmin had shown a  picture of an airplane being looked down upon. It would turn right or left  from straight ahead when turning and be pointing straight to the top when  no yaw of the ground track existed. That would eliminate any conflict with a  false sense of where up is located and yet would allow the turn to be stopped  which is what will save your life.  

  

 I have no knowledge of how the DYNON works. Based on the excellent  information Brian Lloyd  gave us, I would say it would be usable  as long as no unusual roll, pitch or yaw rates had been encountered prior to the  loss of other reference. 

  

 I will keep my T&B for a while more!

  

 PS I do wish to emphasize that I think anyone who does not feel completely  comfortable using a T&B for a back up instrument should plan on taking  fifteen to twenty hours of training from an instructor who does champion the  instrument to gain reasonable proficiency. 

  

 I also believe that it should be used in the pilot's everyday instrument  scan.

  

 The FARs still tell us that we should be checking the rate of turn for  every turn we make while IFR. When maneuvering in an airspace of restricted  dimension (i.e. during an approach) we are supposed to make standard rate turns  with a limitation on bank that is dependent on whether the airplane is being  hand flown or flown using an autopilot/flight director system. Without checking  the FARs. I believe the maximum angle required to be used is thirty degrees for  hand flown and twenty-seven for most autopilot/flight  director systems.

  

 By including the T&B in normal IFR flight to check whether or not a  standard rate is being used, the instrument is constantly being monitored and  any failure of either the T&B or the attitude instrument will be readily  apparent.

  

 Happy  Skies,



Old Bob

AKA

Bob Siegfried

Ancient Aviator

Stearman  N3977A

Brookeridge Air Park LL22

Downers Grove, IL 60516

630  985-8503



  

 In a message dated 6/23/2006 3:48:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,  rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  On the    panel page of a Garmin 296, does the little aeroplane with wings

give    information close to a T+B (or TC)? 



On a Dynon D10A they have a    Primary function called Turn Rate, is the

information given close to a T+B    (or TC)?

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brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:30 am Post subject: Garmin 296 - Dynon D10A T+B (or TC)?

On Jun 23, 2006, at 2:55 AM, <rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>  

<rparigor(at)SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I have been following the thread bout the difference between a TC  

 and T+B.



 On the panel page of a Garmin 296, does the little aeroplane with  

 wings

 give information close to a T+B (or TC)?



 On a Dynon D10A they have a Primary function called Turn Rate, is the

 information given close to a T+B (or TC)?


	


It is going to be rate-of-turn, just like a T&B. The only problem is,  

it is not a separate function from the vertical gyro function (AI).  

If any one of the three rate gyros fail or any one of the  

accelerometers fail, *all* of the gyro functions fail. So if  

something goes wrong with your Dynon you have to expect to lose *all*  

of the gyro functions. You are going to want some sort of backup gyro  

or perhaps a second D-10 on the other side of the panel.



Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brianl at lloyd dot com             Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



"Five percent of the people think.

  Ten percent of the people think they think.

  Eighty-five percent of the people would rather die than think."

        ---Thomas A. Edison





Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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