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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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 Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:23 am Post subject: 91.205 - NOT! |
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6/13/2014
Hello Andy, Thanks for your response. You wrote: “Why do you think that it
(91.205) does?”
1) I agree, 91.205 does not normally apply to any aircraft that has a:
Special Airworthiness Certificate, Category/Designation: Experimental.
2) Such an aircraft is limited to VFR day only flight. See here:
"14 CFR 91.319 Aircraft having experimental certificates: Operating
limitations.
(d) (2) Operate under VFR, day only, unless otherwise specifically
authorized by the Administrator;...."
3) However the entire context of the recent postings regarding the subject
Direction Indicator Needs has been for IFR flight by an aircraft that has a:
Special Airworthiness Certificate, Category/Designation: Experimental.
Purpose: To operate Amateur Built Aircraft. Operating Limitations Dated
XX/XX/XXXX Are Part Of This Certificate.
Note: The terminology and entries in 1 and 2 above are taken directly from
an issued FAA Form 8130-7 (10/82).
4) This below extract copied from the attached document states why 91.205
DOES APPLY for IFR or night flight for an aircraft certificated as in 3
above.(commonly referred to as an EAB (Experimental Amateur Built)
aircraft):
"The Special Airworthiness Certificate issued for each amateur built
experimental aircraft includes specific Operating Limitations. Per FAA
Order 8130.2G the Operating Limitations state: “After completion of Phase I
flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument
flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR,
day only.” The interpretation given this statement is that if the aircraft
is “appropriately equipped in accordance with 91.205” then the “VFR day
only” limitation no longer applies and the aircraft can be flown at night
or under IFR in IMC."
4) If the EAB in question does not contain the above quoted Operating
Limitations extract then one must, as you say, look at the Operating
Limitations for that specific aircraft to see what does apply.
Please let me know if the above information does not clarify this issue.
Thanks,
OC
=======================================================================
From: Dr. Andrew Elliott
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 8:38 AM
To: 'Owen Baker '
Subject: RE: 91.205 - NOT!
It does not. In your list, 91.205 is the reference for nearly all
requirements. And most clearly, 91.205 does not apply to experimental
category aircraft. Why do you think that it does?
Andy
===================================================================
From: Owen Baker [mailto:bakerocb(at)cox.net]
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 5:15 AM
To: a.s.elliott(at)cox.net; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: 91.205 - NOT!
6/13/2014
Hello Andrew Eliot, Does the attached document help clarify things for you?
Thanks,
OC
'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather
and understand information."
=========================================================================================
Time: 07:37:30 AM PST US
From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 91.205 - NOT!
Just a reminder to note that, as specifically stated in the heading
section, 14CFR 91.205 applies to, and only to, "Powered civil aircraft
with *standard* category U.S. airworthiness certificates". For the
larger number of us who are building/flying experimental category
aircraft, the applicable rules appear in your operating limits. The
recommendations in 91.205 are good guidelines, but it's your ops limits,
and the general requirement to have appropriate equipment to complete
the planned flight, that rule here.
Andy
------------------------
Andrew S Elliott, CFI
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bakerocb
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 5:17 am Post subject: 91.205 - NOT! |
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6/15/2014
Hello Listers, Andrew Elliott wrote: “And most clearly, 91.205 does not
apply to experimental category aircraft. Why do you think that it does?”
Please see the FAA Feb 2, 2009 letter available here:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2009/rourke-1%20-%20(2009)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf
This Feb 2, 2009 letter from the FAA explains why I think that 14 CFR 91.205
does apply to all EAB aircraft ever since change 3 to FAA Order 8130.2F**
was issued on 4/18/2007. The below copied explicit wording has been required
in every EAB Operating Limitations since 4/18/2007:
“After completion of Phase I flight testing, unless appropriately equipped
for night and/or instrument
flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under VFR,
day only.”
Prior to 4/18/2007, starting at some date that I can not determine, the FAA
or DAR airworthiness inspectors were ordered to instruct the EAB aircraft
applicant regarding this requirement and to include the requirement in the
Operating Limitations, but no explicit wording was provided.
‘OC’
'O C' Baker says "The best investment you can make is the effort to gather
and understand information."
**PS: The current version, FAA Order 8130.2G, dated 4/16/2011, with Change
1, dated 7/02/2012, contains that same wording.
==============================================================================
From: Dr. Andrew Elliott
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2014 8:38 AMSubject: RE: 91.205 - NOT!
It does not. In your list, 91.205 is the reference for nearly all
requirements. And most clearly, 91.205 does not apply to experimental
category aircraft. Why do you think that it does? Andy
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