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Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

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lgds(at)post6.tele.dk
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:46 am Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

HiQuestion: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... ))

Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..? 

Regards Gert



#151

OY-GDS 

Mono with 914

Ivor Phillips

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 253
Location: London UK

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

Hi Gert  

   

Europa have often removed a door and control stick   for photographic purposes, This was when K/W  needed good aerial photo’s, I believe you need to keep speed below 100 kts,  

There have been quite a few that have lost doors unintentionally ( shoot bolts)  so its shouldn’t be a problem!! IMHO  

Regards  

Ivor Phillips  

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gert Dalgaard

 Sent: 23 June 2006 14:42

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)  

  

   

Hi    

     

Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?    

Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... ))  

    

Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..?   

    

Regards Gert  

    

   

    

#151  

    

OY-GDS   

    

Mono with 914

Kevin Klinefelter

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Bishop CA

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

I remember hearing that the factory did some test flights without the 

doors. Flew fine as I recall. Did you check the archives?

Kevin



Gert Dalgaard wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi



 Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?

 Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and 

 my AC should be able to fly slow enough...... ))

 Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will happen..? 

 Regards Gert



 #151

 OY-GDS <http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpg> 

 Mono with 914

_________________
Europa XS, Mono Wheel N211KA
Intercooled 914, Airmaster Prop

mikenjulie.parkin(at)btop
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 9:09 am Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

Yes the factory did it quite often for airborne photography - saw it myself 

on 2 occasions.



regards,



Mike



do not archive.



---

dg.watts(at)virgin.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

Well I have done it and I have to say it was awful.  Admitted it was an appaling day with the weather, but the vibration through the  airframe was unreal. Sarah, my daughter was actually flying the aircraft whilst  I was doing the photos (a photo shoot of Pete Kember's kit 1000 for the PFA  magazine).

  

 Stangely, when we came round for the second attempt  at landing (because all the sensations seemed completely wrong the first time),  for some unknown reason I put my hand up and held the edge of the door frame, at  about forehead level, and suddenly most of the vibrations went away.  That  probably means that it was some sort of swirling set up through the single open  door. Maybe both doors off would be a better proposition.

  

 But still, we got the photos in the can, and we  know what we will not be doing again.

  

 Dave Watts

 G-BXDY - Monowheel Classic - 912S/Airmaster - 1200  hours

  	  Quote: 	
		        Question: Have anyone tried to fly the Europa without one door?   Problem: we need a platform for some air/air photos of span-cans, and my    AC should be able to fly slow enough...... ))

   Answer: dismount the right door, but who knows what will    happen..? 

   Regards Gert

   

   #151

   OY-GDS 

   Mono with 914

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

I'd heard that it was quite scary; maybe that's why the 100 kt/mph 

limitation.

Who'll try it out and report?



Duncan McF.

---

nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

In the case of the Europa the door apertures represent quite a large surface area of that part of the fuselage. Although several pilots have shown that the aircraft can be flown satisfactorily with one of the doors removed, it bothers me that it without doubt reduces the structural strength of the fuselage. As we know when building the aircraft the rigidity of the fuselage greatly increases when the windows are installed. Whilst flights have been carried out without incident I would question the loads the fuselage could take with one or both of the doors removed. Certainly with both doors removed there will be an increased load on the narrow overhead panel between the doors. I had to significantly reinforce the overhead panel when I cut a small overhead vent because the overhead panel is considered a strength critical part of the airframe. I would not be happy flying the Europa with one or both of the doors removed without the necessary stress calculations proving it not to be a problem.  If the calculations have been done and prove this not to be a problem please ignore all the above.  

   

Nigel Charles  

   

--

robust_design(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

Air blowing over a hole with a cavity, like a  flutist blowing over the hole in the flute, can set up vibrations.  You may  remember driving the car with one window open, and sensing a low frequency  vibration.  

  

 Vibrations, if they are allowed to resonate, can  have amplitudes with very large peaks, and can be structurally dangerous.   I suspect that when Dave held the edge of the door frame he dampened the  vibrations.  Lord mounts on engine frames dampen potentially damaging  resonant frequencies coming from the engine.  

  

 Its possible that removing both doors might have  eliminated the vibration, just as, by analogy, opening several car windows  eliminates air flutter in the car.  The doors per se do not lend much  structural strength to the airplane.  They do prevent air from resonating  with the fuselage cavity, however.

  

 Donald Ingram

 A-204 monowheel XS

 [quote]   ---

nigel_graham(at)btclick.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 11:15 pm Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

Some  years back I began work to develop a set of rear windows for the Europa.  

 As  part of the PFA submission, I worked with Barry Mellors (the man responsible for  the stress calculations of the original airframe) to calculate the structural  effect on the strength of the fuselage, of cutting out significant amounts of  the turtle deck.

 To my  astonishment, these calculations revealed that there was no degradation in  rigidity and even more surprising, Barry stated that the entire turtle deck is  "non structural" and that the aircraft could fly quite happily without it -  though I would not advocate trying this out!

  

 The  turbulent "roar" caused by even a small opening in a streamlined  car body or aircraft airframe can be quite alarming. You only need to play with  an electric sun-roof to see how small changes in position can create large  differences in turbulence.

 If I  was to consider using the Europa as a photo ship, I would remove both doors to  eliminate asymmetric forces and then experiment with spoilers along the  top rim of the windscreen - a trick used by many car manufactures to  eliminate sun-roof roar.

  

 Nigel  (the other one) Graham

 [quote]   --

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:54 am Post subject: Doors ( - not "The Doors"...)

Nigel,

 I think we can safely say that the doors are  non-structural and have no significant load bearing function, given that  they are merely loosely pinned  to the  main structure. In fact  without the main structure to hold them, the doors would be pretty  useless.

  

 Where they may be beneficial is in helping the main  structure to maintain its shape under certain loading conditions (eg in a  crash), thereby improving the toughness of that structure.

  

 Aerodynamic considerations aside of  course!

  

 Duncan McF

 [quote]   ---

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