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DOOR detached during flight
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g-fizy

Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 46
Location: uk

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:07 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

Sadly during the permit renewal test flight ,The P1 Door detached,Luckily no one was hurt and G-fizy was landed safely .

It Was flown be the engineer and text pilot they had not started testing the aircraft ,and was in level flight when the door went as it did it impacted the elevator and to a large chunk out.

They say The doors Were both Closed correctly so we are not sure if the hinge at the front failed causing the door to detach ,they don't look very strong.

Has This Happened Before ?



thats my flying done for a while

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elevator Damage

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2014-06-30 17.14.59.jpg

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all that was left of front hinge

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rear hinge

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daseitz(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:11 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

Yes it happened when the rear pin was not engaged in the socket. Been there, done that.



N284A

---- g-fizy <jim.davis1(at)me.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Sadly during the permit renewal test flight ,The P1 Door detached,Luckily no one was her and G-fixy was landed safely .

 It Was flown be the engineer and text pilot they had not started testing the aircraft ,and was in level flight when the door went as it did it impacted the elevator and to a large chunk out.

 They say The doors Were both Closed correctly so we are not sure if the hinge at the front failed causing the door to detach ,they don't look very strong.

 Has This Happened Before ?

 

 thats my flying done for a while       

 

 --------

 owner g-fizy

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425779#425779

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg

brian.davies(at)clara.co.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

Jim 

Sorry to hear about the door problem.  To the best of my knowledge all

instances of a door opening in flight have been as a result of the rear

shoot bolt not being properly engaged.  There could be a first time for a

different cause but....  Did you manage to recover the door?



There were problems with the length of engagement of the door pins early on

but I suspect this had been checked on your aircraft.



Regards



Brian Davies 



--

g-fizy

Joined: 27 May 2012
Posts: 46
Location: uk

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: DOOR detached during flight

sadly Brian the area where the door detached was to large and they were unsure of the exact location ,the rear pins were long enough the front pins not quite as long they always seemed to hold firm ,but as i was not with them at the time of flight we msy never no 

regards jim

JonSmith

Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: DOOR detached during flight

Unfortunately this has happened a fair few times, indeed to a mate of mine just last year.

What happens is that the (rear mounted) gas strut twists the door frame a little when it is open.  Thus when the door is lowered to close it, it naturally wants to take up a position where the bottom edge of the door is slightly too far aft.  This causes the rear edge of the door to remain outside of the door frame.  Positioned thus, when you lock the door the front shoot bolt locates normally but the rear one locates itself OUTSIDE of the door frame.  From inside the front of the door looks normal and the lock handle looks and feels normal too.  Only by looking round behind you will you see that the rear edge of the door is out of position.  Of course air pressure on the door in flight will then flex it slightly further rearwards and then it's game over (for the door). 

I find when I close the door from the inside, when it's fully lowered I apply a slight pressure forwards with a finger on the inside of the front edge of the door and that moves the bottom of the door frame forward slightly and you can literally hear and feel it pop into it's correct and fully fitted position. This has really become an instinctive movement for me.  I also look at both ends of the door from the inside to ensure they are fully snug in position. After locking it I press outwards on both front and back of each door as a final check to ensure each end of the door is fully secure.  

Whilst you will never know for sure, my uneducated opinion is that there is very little load on a correctly closed door in flight and if both shoot bolts are correctly engaged the door cannot possible come open by accident.

Good luck and best wishes for a speedy repair.

_________________
G-TERN
Classic Mono

max8992

Joined: 28 Jul 2011
Posts: 142

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:07 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

We've been there too. Totally agree with Jon, it's mandatory to verify that

the rear pin is really engaged. I push on front and rear side of both

windows as last line of my pre take off check list. 

BTW this point has been addressed on this forum quite a bit ago and some

builders have added detection switches linked to leds on their panel, a bit

too much for me.

Hope your window is manufactured in the UK (grey color) as our came from USA

(dark color) and it was more expensive for travel than the price of the

window itself and it took 6 weeks to get it...   



Max  Cointe

mcointe(at)free.fr

F-PMLH Europa XS_TriGear

Kit #560-2003 912ULS/AirmasterAP332 520 hours



F-PLDJ Dyn’Aéro MCR 4S 

Kit #27-2002 912ULSFR/MTProp MTV7A 1650 heures



-----Message d'origine-----

De : owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] De la part de JonSmith

Envoyé : lundi 30 juin 2014 22:47

À : europa-list(at)matronics.com

Objet : Re: DOOR detached during flight




--> <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk>



Unfortunately this has happened a fair few times, indeed to a mate of mine

just last year.

What happens is that the (rear mounted) gas strut twists the door frame a

little when it is open.  Thus when the door is lowered to close it, it

naturally wants to take up a position where the bottom edge of the door is

slightly too far aft.  This causes the rear edge of the door to remain

outside of the door frame.  Positioned thus, when you lock the door the

front shoot bolt locates normally but the rear one locates itself OUTSIDE of

the door frame.  From inside the front of the door looks normal and the lock

handle looks and feels normal too.  Only by looking round behind you will

you see that the rear edge of the door is out of position.  Of course air

pressure on the door in flight will then flex it slightly further rearwards

and then it's game over (for the door). 

I find when I close the door from the inside, when it's fully lowered I

apply a slight pressure forwards with a finger on the inside of the front

edge of the door and that moves the bottom of the door frame forward

slightly and you can literally hear and feel it pop into it's correct and

fully fitted position. This has really become an instinctive movement for

me.  I also look at both ends of the door from the inside to ensure they are

fully snug in position. After locking it I press outwards on both front and

back of each door as a final check to ensure each end of the door is fully

secure.  

Whilst you will never know for sure, my uneducated opinion is that there is

very little load on a correctly closed door in flight and if both shoot

bolts are correctly engaged the door cannot possible come open by accident.

Good luck and best wishes for a speedy repair.



--------

G-TERN

Classic Mono





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425788#425788

_________________
Max8992
Europa XS #560 F-PMLH

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:59 am Post subject: Re: DOOR detached during flight

Sorry to hear about the door detachment.  Steve Vestuti, builder of #573 (now G-IPOD) wisely added double DOORS check in the 'start up' and 'ready for departure' checklists.  I follow this and double brief PAX about checking the doors before pulling the harness tight.



I found that the doors warp when left open in hot weather, this can result in the aft pins needing some shuffling - as per Jon Smith's narrative.



I re-stressed the hinges and pins having done some CFD work on the Europa, the pressure differential across this part of the fuselage is quite low but the doors are large, so the resulting suction is enough (obviously) to warp the door sufficient to disengage the remaining (fwd) pin.  The RF (reserve factor) of the aft pins, when properly engaged is very high >>2.



Conclusion is that the door design is sound, operators need a robust checklist regime including a thorough PAX brief.



Regards

JW

_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

klinefelter.kevin(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:03 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

I used stainless steel hinges for the doors, as some other builders recommended. I suppose SS can take a bit more of the abuse we give them on the ground.



But one has to wonder if that rear shoot bolt was really engaged. I wonder if this is the first instance of the door hitting the tail?



Kevin



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jun 30, 2014, at 12:07 PM, "g-fizy" <jim.davis1(at)me.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Sadly during the permit renewal test flight ,The P1 Door detached,Luckily no one was hert and G-fizy was landed safely .

 It Was flown be the engineer and text pilot they had not started testing the aircraft ,and was in level flight when the door went as it did it impacted the elevator and to a large chunk out.

 They say The doors Were both Closed correctly so we are not sure if the hinge at the front failed causing the door to detach ,they don't look very strong.

 Has This Happened Before ?

 

 thats my flying done for a while       

 

 --------

 owner g-fizy

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425780#425780

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:54 am Post subject: Re: DOOR detached during flight

The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull through, shear or tear out.



I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else have trouble?



getting 404 errors.

http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg 

http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg 

http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg 

Regards

John

_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:32 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

John,



Agreed.  You could use cast iron hinges and they’d just tear up the fiberglass when the door departed.  One must absolutely, positively, make sure both bolt shoots are in place.  I have a strap attached to the inside lower rear corner of my doors that allows me to pull that corner in when I latch the door.  I had microswitches for a while but they tended to get out of adjustment and wear causing false warnings.  The strap is much better at confirming the rear shoots are in place and the door properly latched.



Same 404 error when I try to access the photos.



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com

On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:






The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull through, shear or tear out.



I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else have trouble?



getting 404 errors.

http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg 

http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg 

http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg 

Regards

John



--------

John Wighton

Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:41 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

Robert Borger  wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Agreed.  You could use cast iron hinges and they’d just tear up the fiberglass when the door departed.  One must absolutely, positively, make sure both bolt shoots are in place.  I have a strap attached to the inside lower rear corner of my doors that allows me to pull that corner in when I latch the door.  I had microswitches for a while but they tended to get out of adjustment and wear causing false warnings.  The strap is much better at confirming the rear shoots are in place and the door properly latched. 	




	That sounds like a good idea Bob…

In my case, I added a tab of 1/8” Lastafoam w/ 2 layers BID, located per attached photo, on both doors. On the passenger side, I can reach the tab w/ my right arm extended behind the passenger’s head; I did not want to rely upon my passenger to ensure that the rear shoot bolt was engaged.  On the pilot’s side, I cross my right arm over my chest to reach the tab. In both instances, I can both push out and pull inward, while engaging the latch as well as during final check list. 

I was particularly concerned before installation of the door glazing because the lower rear corner of the door remained a tad proud prior to engaging the shoot bolts; I was a bit relieved when that disappeared after the weight of the glazing was added to the door.

Nonetheless, I’m installing microswitches for the rear bolts and will look for two green LEDs on the panel before TO…it’s a simple enough installation, thanks to Raimo Toivio, and I have no reason to doubt that it will be trouble-free…time will tell.

Regarding the hinges, I believe they were intentionally designed as the weak link in order to prevent damage to the FG of the airframe in the event of loss of door.

Fred

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AirEupora

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:08 am Post subject: Re: DOOR detached during flight

I too had the door depart on my first flight in N141EW as an instructor.  It took six months to get the parts from England.. The installation and painting took another month.  I felt bad about my door coming off during flight.  Took a helicopter up and looked around for the door, but never found it.  No damage to the airframe.  



It is interesting that Dr. Johnson's doors are super easy to open and close, but my doors are hard.  I took Bob's ideal and use a cord from the pilot's door to the PAX's door and pull on the cord before take off.  I generally am able to see day light out the back if the door is not close.  If I don't keep the doors close when not flying then I have trouble closing them before takeoff.  I couple of times I've had to shut down the engine. get out and close the pilot's door from the outside.  Then walk around and get in from the PAX's door.  As big as I am that is a sight.



Losing a door in flight makes a believer out of you.  Double check the doors!

JonSmith

Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:33 am Post subject: Re: DOOR detached during flight

Hi, just to clarify and expand on my previous comments and noting the very valid comments by John Wighton and others, the doors, even when closed can be semi permanently deformed by the continuous action of the gas strut (mine certainly has). This is generally limited to the flattish flange of the inboard rear top corner of the door which over time becomes curled up a little causing rather an unsightly gap at that corner.  This deformation can be "reset" given time with ingenious use of weights/ straps/ pressure etc plus careful warming of the corner.  (The gas strut repositioning mod addresses this problem and helps prevent it happening though I've not fitted it to mine). 



I don't think this is the cause of people failing to lock the door correctly though.  The "twisting" I referred to is simply caused by the (quite flexible) door being twisted when it is open by the fact that it only has one gas strut fitted to one edge of the door.  If it had two gas struts, one at the front and one at the rear it wouldn't twist - but think of the extra weight....!  On mine, if I disconnect the gas strut the door lowers down completely straight and fits perfectly into the frame with no extra fiddling required. When I reconnect the gas strut then due to the induced twist, after I have lowered it I need to give the bottom of the door my previously mentioned gentle nudge forward to pop it fully into position (ie. to allow the rear edge of the door to move fully inwards and fully home).  It's a bit like on my old estate car - one of the gas struts failed on the boot (trunk!) lid and the boot was a pig to shut because the one remaining (strong) gas strut twisted the thin boot lid so much it needed a huge sideways force to make it fit!

Like John, I am completely convinced that the door design is very good and completely sound but that this is just one of those things that we all "need to know" and that we all religiously check that the front and especially the (harder to see!) rear of the door is correctly shut and in the correct position with the shoot bolts engaged.  Someone mentioned about warning devices - it's a very personal thing but I prefer not to rely on bells and whistles which might let me down one day but rely on myself to visually check each time. I just pray that I don't let myself down one day!

I guess an issue is, and this will always be a risk, where someone less familiar with the day to day operating of the plane flies it - classic example being the engineer as the original poster mentioned.  As owners I suppose this will need to be one of many briefing points covered.

_________________
G-TERN
Classic Mono

bill mcclellan

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 43

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

Ted Gladstone developed a door strut mod that works very well.  See picture.  Kingsley Hurst modified it and did a write up on the mod.  I modified it further and installed it on my plane and it works very well.  It takes virtually all stress off the door corner.  Further info is on forum some time back.  I have Kingsley's write up but he probably still has the info.  Obviously the bottom line solution, as has been stated, always check for complete door closure before flight.

Bill McClellan



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rehn(at)rockisland.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:36 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

It comes down to us and our check list. A couple of days ago my wife and I taxied out in warm weather, she opened her door to cool off and closed it before take off, I always check them at least 3 times, so I reached back and gave her door a push, whoops,it was not latched in back, a good reminder for us and why we check it. Pretty sure she will also be double checking now!

Have check lists and use them.

Regards

Jerry

Mono 914



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 1, 2014, at 9:33 AM, "JonSmith" <jonsmitheuropa(at)tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi, just to clarify and expand on my previous comments and noting the very valid comments by John Wighton and others, the doors, even when closed can be semi permanently deformed by the continuous action of the gas strut (mine certainly has). This is generally limited to the flattish flange of the inboard rear top corner of the door which over time becomes curled up a little causing rather an unsightly gap at that corner.  This deformation can be "reset" given time with ingenious use of weights/ straps/ pressure etc plus careful warming of the corner.  (The gas strut repositioning mod addresses this problem and helps prevent it happening though I've not fitted it to mine). 

 

 I don't think this is the cause of people failing to lock the door correctly though.  The "twisting" I referred to is simply caused by the (quite flexible) door being twisted when it is open by the fact that it only has one gas strut fitted to one edge of the door.  If it had two gas struts, one at the front and one at the rear it wouldn't twist - but think of the extra weight....!  On mine, if I disconnect the gas strut the door lowers down completely straight and fits perfectly into the frame with no extra fiddling required. When I reconnect the gas strut then due to the induced twist, after I have lowered it I need to give the bottom of the door my previously mentioned gentle nudge forward to pop it fully into position (ie. to allow the rear edge of the door to move fully inwards and fully home).  It's a bit like on my old estate car - one of the gas struts failed on the boot (trunk!) lid and the boot was a pig to shut because the one remaining (strong) gas strut twisted !

 the thin boot lid so much it needed a huge sideways force to make it fit!

 Like John, I am completely convinced that the door design is very good and completely sound but that this is just one of those things that we all "need to know" and that we all religiously check that the front and especially the (harder to see!) rear of the door is correctly shut and in the correct position with the shoot bolts engaged.  Someone mentioned about warning devices - it's a very personal thing but I prefer not to rely on bells and whistles which might let me down one day but rely on myself to visually check each time. I just pray that I don't let myself down one day!

 I guess an issue is, and this will always be a risk, where someone less familiar with the day to day operating of the plane flies it - classic example being the engineer as the original poster mentioned.  As owners I suppose this will need to be one of many briefing points covered.

 

 --------

 G-TERN

 Classic Mono

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425855#425855

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:47 am Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

This is the best answer, also fit Mal McLure's center latch which stops the bolts engaging unless

the door is fully closed. It stops the door bowing out along the bottom rail in flight with the 

ventilators fully open. It's very neat and very simple.

Best to persuade Kingsley to describe it. He has the original installed.

Graham





        From: William McClellan <wilwood(at)earthlink.net>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent:  Tuesday, 1 July 2014, 18:20

 Subject: Re: Re: DOOR detached during flight

  

 

Ted Gladstone developed a door strut mod that works very well.  See picture.  Kingsley Hurst modified it and did a write up on the mod.  I modified it further and installed it on my plane and it works very well.  It takes virtually all stress off the door corner.  Further info is on forum some time back.  I have Kingsley's write up but he probably still has the info.  Obviously the bottom line solution, as has been stated, always check for complete door closure before flight.

Bill McClellan



--

klinefelter.kevin(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

Absolutely. The original post regarding loss of door during flight asserted that the test pilot said the shoot bolts were engaged normally and it must have been the forward hinge that failed. I am assuming it was an aluminum hinge. 

I am not suggesting that SS hinges would keep your door on the airplane if the door ain't closed properly!



Kevin

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull through, shear or tear out.

 

 I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else have trouble?

 

 getting 404 errors.

 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg 

 

 

 Regards

 John

 

 --------

 John Wighton

 Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425827#425827

cakeykev(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

The test pilot isn't going to say he didn't check the bolts were engaged he is going to say it was a failure else where.

I don't have any micro switches etc I just lean back and give both doors a good push at the rear and then the front. If the bolts aren't engaged you can tell straight away. When converting to the Europa it was drummed into me how important this is. 

It's on my check list. 

Kevin

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 1 Jul 2014, at 23:02, Kevin Klinefelter <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 Absolutely. The original post regarding loss of door during flight asserted that the test pilot said the shoot bolts were engaged normally and it must have been the forward hinge that failed. I am assuming it was an aluminum hinge. 

 I am not suggesting that SS hinges would keep your door on the airplane if the door ain't closed properly!

 Kevin

> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull through, shear or tear out.

> 

> I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else have trouble?

> 

> getting 404 errors.

> 

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg 

> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg 

> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg 

> 

> 

> Regards

> John

> 

> --------

> John Wighton

> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425827#425827

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:51 pm Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

Doing my DOOR check before Take off I have a viewable red marker line on the back of each door that should be flush with the upholstery when closed. If not then reopen and push down on the back of the door to make sure the back bolt is secure.

Never had a problem with the original strut although they are getting weaker.

Tim

Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton,

Christchurch,  8052

New Zealand.

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

Ph 64 3 3515166

Mob 0210640221

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 2/07/2014, at 10:25 am, Kevin Challis <cakeykev(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 The test pilot isn't going to say he didn't check the bolts were engaged he is going to say it was a failure else where.

 I don't have any micro switches etc I just lean back and give both doors a good push at the rear and then the front. If the bolts aren't engaged you can tell straight away. When converting to the Europa it was drummed into me how important this is. 

 It's on my check list. 

 Kevin

> On 1 Jul 2014, at 23:02, Kevin Klinefelter <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Absolutely. The original post regarding loss of door during flight asserted that the test pilot said the shoot bolts were engaged normally and it must have been the forward hinge that failed. I am assuming it was an aluminum hinge. 

> I am not suggesting that SS hinges would keep your door on the airplane if the door ain't closed properly!

> 

> Kevin

> 

> 

>> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull through, shear or tear out.

>> 

>> I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else have trouble?

>> 

>> getting 404 errors.

>> 

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg 

>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg 

>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg 

>> 

>> 

>> Regards

>> John

>> 

>> --------

>> John Wighton

>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Read this topic online here:

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425827#425827

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:34 pm Post subject: DOOR detached during flight

As in previous posts,  my doors close easily and are stock.

 

 

 I trust my doors, not myself or my pax or if flying with anyone else or having someone help me by latching the pax door for me.  

 

 

 Reach over and push the door firmly while looking at it.  When you close it and before takeoff.

 

 

 CHECKLIST CHECKLIST

 

 

 The only door my clients or I have lost was posted in this string to a new second hand owner.  I spend time teaching clients, prospects and passengers how to close the door and how to jettison it in an emergency and ground egress.

 

 

 It's a review for me as my discipline goes to pot when I get lazy on a nice sunny day.

 

 

 Of course I took off with the prop in cruise.   ( It's in my checklist. )  Discipline may not be. The mind is a terrible thing.  

 

 

 LOOK WHILE YOU PUSH ON THE DOOR!

 

 

 Regards

 Bud Yerly.

 

 

 PS.   Europa's molds and plug for the starboard door was trashed so a new mold had to be made.  Takes a while.

 

 

 Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

 

 

 

 Timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> wrote:

 

  --> Europa-List message posted by: Timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz>

 

 Doing my DOOR check before Take off I have a viewable red marker line on the back of each door that should be flush with the upholstery when closed. If not then reopen and push down on the back of the door to make sure the back bolt is secure.

 Never had a problem with the original strut although they are getting weaker.

 

 Tim

 

 Tim Ward

 12 Waiwetu Street

 Fendalton,

 Christchurch,  8052

 New Zealand.

 

 ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz

 

 Ph 64 3 3515166

 Mob 0210640221

 

 

 > On 2/07/2014, at 10:25 am, Kevin Challis <cakeykev(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 > 

 > --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin Challis <cakeykev(at)gmail.com>

 > 

 > The test pilot isn't going to say he didn't check the bolts were engaged he is going to say it was a failure else where.

 > 

 > I don't have any micro switches etc I just lean back and give both doors a good push at the rear and then the front. If the bolts aren't engaged you can tell straight away. When converting to the Europa it was drummed into me how important this is. 

 > 

 > It's on my check list. 

 > 

 > Kevin

 > 

 > 

 >> On 1 Jul 2014, at 23:02, Kevin Klinefelter <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 >> 

 >> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin Klinefelter <klinefelter.kevin(at)gmail.com>

 >> 

 >> Absolutely. The original post regarding loss of door during flight asserted that the test pilot said the shoot bolts were engaged normally and it must have been the forward hinge that failed. I am assuming it was an aluminum hinge. 

 >> I am not suggesting that SS hinges would keep your door on the airplane if the door ain't closed properly!

 >> 

 >> Kevin

 >> 

 >> 

 >>> On Jul 1, 2014, at 7:54 AM, "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:

 >>> 

 >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>

 >>> 

 >>> The doors will fail irrespective of hinge material as the fasteners will pull through, shear or tear out.

 >>> 

 >>> I have not been able to access the photos int he original post - anybody else have trouble?

 >>> 

 >>> getting 404 errors.

 >>> 

 >>> 

 >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171415_120.jpg 

 >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171459_125.jpg 

 >>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/2014_06_30_171401_136.jpg 

 >>> 

 >>> 

 >>> Regards

 >>> John

 >>> 

 >>> --------

 >>> John Wighton

 >>> Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

 >>> 

 >>> 

 >>> 

 >>> 

 >>> Read this topic online here:

 >>> 

 >>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=425827#425827

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 

 

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