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UK CJ6 mods'

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airmanv2

Joined: 01 Dec 2013
Posts: 49
Location: France - Normandy

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:47 pm Post subject: UK CJ6 mods'

hello, 



The workshop "Vintage Aero" at Pent Farm had installed for me the automotive plug provided by Dennis Savarese. To do that they had to request for a mod at the CAA-UK. It was the first Automotive Kit plug installed on a uk registered CJ6.

Work is done and engine run fine. Very good job.

My questions are: if i have an engine problem and need a new one to replace it , it will be quite impossible to find a Housai 285HP with low time or just overhaul. 

It will be probably more easy and not more expensive  to replace it by a M14 360HP. (engine+Prop+exhaust) ? 

Is some body know if there is an M14 engine on the other UK registered CJ6?

If the exchange was made in UK, did a Mod  was requested to the CAA-UK? Kind regards

Bruno

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Harv

Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:32 am Post subject: Re: UK CJ6 mods'

Bruno



Good work with the plug kit, that's a first for UK Changs, though I'm not sure how much improvement it will make over a good stock system. Maybe cleaner starts but and less fouling, but not more hp.



There are no MP14 powered CJ6's on the UK register (fairly confident of that) so would be interested to see how you get on if you plan to convert. Does your engine need an overhaul?



Whats the benefit of fitting the stock mp14 engine? 



Rgs

Harv

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cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:42 am Post subject: UK CJ6 mods'

Bruno & Harv,

  

 For us guys here in the US the auto plugs and the harness are MUCH  better.  Auto plugs are a whole lot cheaper and easier to find.  They  make no different in horse power.  I've found that they can foul up but no  more than the regular ones.

  

 I had a 260hp HS-6 when first got my CJ.  My rate of climb was 833  ft/m.  I put in the M14 and it went to 2,500 ft/m.  Cruise went up  about 7 kts but of course she was burning more.  The real advantage is rate  of climb and a lot more vertical in acro.

  

 I really don't envy you UK guys and the restrictive rules you have over  there.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  

  

  In a message dated 7/7/2014 5:33:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  martin.harvey(at)kbr.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "Harv"    <martin.harvey(at)kbr.com>



Bruno



Good work with the plug kit,    that's a first for UK Changs, though I'm not sure how much improvement it will    make over a good stock system. Maybe cleaner starts but and less fouling, but    not more hp.



There are no MP14 powered CJ6's on the UK register (fairly    confident of that) so would be interested to see how you get on if you plan to    convert. Does your engine need an overhaul?



Whats the benefit of    fitting the stock mp14 engine? 



Rgs

Harv





Read    this topic online    here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426230#426230

	


 [quote][b]

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jay-dub

Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: UK CJ6 mods'

I reckon you have two hopes of getting the M14P approved for the CJ-6 in the UK. No hope and Bob Hope .... and Bob's dead.

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jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:26 pm Post subject: UK CJ6 mods'

Now that's funny!  JB



 



   From: "jay-dub" <flyjnw(at)gmail.com>

To: "Yak-List" <yak-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Tuesday, July 8, 2014 3:05:38 PM

Subject: Re: UK CJ6 mods'

 



--> Yak-List message posted by: "jay-dub" <flyjnw(at)gmail.com>

 



I reckon you have two hopes of getting the M14P approved for the CJ-6 in the UK. No hope and Bob Hope .... and Bob's dead.

 



--------

CJ and Yak-52 owner

 

 

Read this topic online here:

 



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=426320#426320

 

 

 

 ;                    -Mat===============

 

 

 

 [quote][b]

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richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:17 pm Post subject: UK CJ6 mods'

Having fought these bureaucratic issues with different aviation authorities

I would say that your pessimism is not totally merited.



UK aviation law is controlled by the Air Navigation Order, and in the end

this is the only legislation that counts. In essence it says "If a

non-type-certificated aircraft is airworthy then the CAA shall (which

legally means must, in my view) give the aircraft a Permit to Fly". A UK

"Permit" is effectively the equivalent of the US "experimental" category.



However, what is curious is that one then needs a look in the BCARs, which

are effectively our CAA's interpretation of the law, and in which they do

not define "airworthy" in any obvious way, such as saying that the aircraft

has been built in certain numbers; has been approved by certain authorities;

has been flown by a CAA test pilot or whatever. Instead they say an aircraft

is airworthy if (and only if it falls into one of a number of categories

such as a home-built of an approved sort; a recognised "classic" aircraft

and if it is "ex-military". It is the latter category that allows us to fly

Yaks and CJs, since we were able to demonstrate to the CAA that these

aircraft were clearly operated by their respective air forces.



Knowing how the authorities work, I would suggest that there is a certain

chance that a CJ-6 powered by M 14 P is no longer considered as an original

ex-military aircraft, but this gives scope for negotiation and discussion.

More importantly, there is obviously the ability to go back to the basic

legislation, and to demonstrate "airworthiness" in a more obvious and

practical fashion.



So I would say that all is not lost, and that is worth fighting. I have

taken this issue up previously with UK CAA, and individuals there have

privately admitted to me that their interpretation of the ANO is a curious

one, and that they can see the potential for someone to challenge this,

demanding a more practical definition of "airworthy". And if you can prove

that an aircraft is airworthy, then it must be given a permit!



Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW



Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

--

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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:43 pm Post subject: UK CJ6 mods'

So one proof might be that a CJ-6 with an M14P is considered to be

airworthy by another CAA?



Unless airworthiness "stops" at the border of a country (that's what the

Dutch CAA says today).



Anyway, struggling with aviation authorities remains difficult and time

consuming, everywhere.



We never would have had the aviation that we know today, with the

mentality and the attitude of today's civil servants.



BR,



Jan



On 09/07/14 09:16, "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com> wrote:



[quote]

<richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>



Having fought these bureaucratic issues with different aviation

authorities

I would say that your pessimism is not totally merited.



UK aviation law is controlled by the Air Navigation Order, and in the end

this is the only legislation that counts. In essence it says "If a

non-type-certificated aircraft is airworthy then the CAA shall (which

legally means must, in my view) give the aircraft a Permit to Fly". A UK

"Permit" is effectively the equivalent of the US "experimental" category.



However, what is curious is that one then needs a look in the BCARs, which

are effectively our CAA's interpretation of the law, and in which they do

not define "airworthy" in any obvious way, such as saying that the

aircraft

has been built in certain numbers; has been approved by certain

authorities;

has been flown by a CAA test pilot or whatever. Instead they say an

aircraft

is airworthy if (and only if it falls into one of a number of categories

such as a home-built of an approved sort; a recognised "classic" aircraft

and if it is "ex-military". It is the latter category that allows us to

fly

Yaks and CJs, since we were able to demonstrate to the CAA that these

aircraft were clearly operated by their respective air forces.



Knowing how the authorities work, I would suggest that there is a certain

chance that a CJ-6 powered by M 14 P is no longer considered as an

original

ex-military aircraft, but this gives scope for negotiation and discussion.

More importantly, there is obviously the ability to go back to the basic

legislation, and to demonstrate "airworthiness" in a more obvious and

practical fashion.



So I would say that all is not lost, and that is worth fighting. I have

taken this issue up previously with UK CAA, and individuals there have

privately admitted to me that their interpretation of the ANO is a curious

one, and that they can see the potential for someone to challenge this,

demanding a more practical definition of "airworthy". And if you can prove

that an aircraft is airworthy, then it must be given a permit!



Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW



Tel:  +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

--

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Harv

Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:03 am Post subject: Re: UK CJ6 mods'

Good points Richard.



I found the UK CAA to be very helpful when bringing my CJ onto the UK register and we made around a dozen modifications. It takes time of course and you will need good internal contacts with a genuine interest in what you are trying to achieve. You'll also need to back up any proposed mods with justifications/evidence where appropriate.



I think you should give it a try and see but....



Why fit an MP14?



As far as I'm aware there is no supply shortage of the Housai HS6 radial engine and they are readily available directly from the PLA in China.



If you want to achieve a better rate of climb then throw out all that old military radio kit, braided wiring, ADF antenna etc because it weighs about 60kg!   



Rgs



Harv

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