 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
flywba(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:08 am Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
 |
|
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1) does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA(at)gmail.com (FlyWBA(at)gmail.com)
FlyWBA.com
425-876-0865 [quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Vic
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Southern Bavaria
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:27 am Post subject: Re: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
Hi Jerry,
200 degrees C is nothing to worry about, could be 220 no problems. For mixture setting I use a lambda sensor in the exhaust pipe to know the facts.
Vic
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:05 am Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
200° is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well, and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" – to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1) does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA(at)gmail.com (FlyWBA(at)gmail.com)
FlyWBA.com
425-876-0865 | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
01234567
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Vic
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Southern Bavaria
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:02 am Post subject: Re: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
Richard,
what is the theory of changing jets as opposed to setting mixture with the mixture needle? I guess jets will set fuel flow for about full power and the needle for lower power settings as in cruise ?
Vic
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dabear
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:12 am Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps … here is the info from the M14P manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: M14P mixture adjustment?
200° is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well, and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" – to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1) does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA(at)gmail.com (FlyWBA(at)gmail.com)
FlyWBA.com
425-876-0865
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. 01234567890123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
McFly
Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 101
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:45 am Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchanT-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd(at)fastaircraft.com (todd(at)fastaircraft.com)
www.fastaircraft.com
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear" <dabear(at)damned.org (dabear(at)damned.org)> wrote:
[quote] <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps … here is the info from the M14P manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Yak-List: M14P mixture adjustment?
200° is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well, and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" – to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1) does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA(at)gmail.com (FlyWBA(at)gmail.com)
FlyWBA.com
425-876-0865
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. 01234567890123456789
0
[b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
_________________
Todd McCutchan
Fast Aircraft
T-34A - N134FA
KDVT Hangar 33-13
Cell - 260.402.1740
Email: todd@fastaircraft.com
Skype: tmccutchan
Web: www.fastaircraft.com & www.flyams.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rmhou(at)yahoo.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:08 am Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
Bear's listed oil temps are the recommended minimum, not maximum. The format makes the "Min" easy to miss.
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:00 AM, Todd McCutchan <todd(at)fastaircraft.com> wrote:
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchanT-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd(at)fastaircraft.com (todd(at)fastaircraft.com)
www.fastaircraft.com
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear" <dabear(at)damned.org (dabear(at)damned.org)> wrote:
| Quote: | Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps … here is the info from the M14P manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: M14P mixture adjustment?
200° is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well, and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" – to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1) does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA(at)gmail.com (FlyWBA(at)gmail.com)
FlyWBA.com
425-876-0865
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
01234567890123456789
0
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
1
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crobin(at)skyvantage.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:52 am Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
if I'm not mistaken, inlet temps are lower than 'connected probes' or outlet temps. I'm certain that if measured at outlet, it'll be just a few ° higher than inlet. 
The lycoming accessory case and oil temp probe is much closer to where the oil will be used... If the M-14P had the oil temp probe located in such a location, the specs would be a bit higher in temps I'm sure.
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 10:24 AM, Todd McCutchan <todd(at)fastaircraft.com (todd(at)fastaircraft.com)> wrote:
[quote] Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
[b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
The temperatures vary depending where you measure it at the inlet, outlet or somewhere in between (Lycoming/Continental)
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd McCutchan
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 12:25 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: M14P mixture adjustment?
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd(at)fastaircraft.com (todd(at)fastaircraft.com)
www.fastaircraft.com
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear" <dabear(at)damned.org (dabear(at)damned.org)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps … here is the info from the M14P manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: M14P mixture adjustment?
200° is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well, and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" – to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1) does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA(at)gmail.com (FlyWBA(at)gmail.com)
FlyWBA.com
425-876-0865
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean. 0123456789012345
|
678901234567890123
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
McFly
Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 101
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:01 am Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
Max sustain 167 F and max 15 min is 185 F vs my recommended 170 F and max continuous 240 F.
That seeks like a big difference.
Is it due to Russian oil or radial engine?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd(at)fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
[quote] On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Robin Hou <rmhou(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
Bear's listed oil temps are the recommended minimum, not maximum. The format makes the "Min" easy to miss.
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:00 AM, Todd McCutchan <todd(at)fastaircraft.com> wrote:
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd(at)fastaircraft.com
www.fastaircraft.com
> On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear" <dabear(at)damned.org> wrote:
>
> Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps … here is the info from the M14P manual.
>
> Oil Temps
> Engine Inlet
> C
> C
> F
> F
> Recommended
> 50
> 65
> 122
> 149
> Min Permissible
> 40
> 104
> Max Sustain
> 75
> 167
> Max 15 Min
> 85
> 185
> Max Delta in/Out
> 50
> 122
> 32
> CHT
> 32
> Recommended
> 140
> 190
> 284
> 374
> Min
> 120
> 248
> Min Prolonged
> 140
> 284
> Max Prolonged
> 220
> 428
> Max 15 Min
> 240
> 464
>
>
> That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
_________________
Todd McCutchan
Fast Aircraft
T-34A - N134FA
KDVT Hangar 33-13
Cell - 260.402.1740
Email: todd@fastaircraft.com
Skype: tmccutchan
Web: www.fastaircraft.com & www.flyams.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dabear
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:41 am Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
Disclaimer NOTE: I’m just typing while my mind thinks, this is my opinion, not an opinion of an expert. Although, I AM an expert ON my opinions. J
In the flat engines, the oil is mostly in the engine and a little is in cooler. In the CJ and Yak oil is mostly in the oil tank, with a little in the engine and a little in the oil cooler. Therefore, the system has lower temp oil overall through the process. It could be that the temp probe for the flat engine is in the engine or on the outlet side. I couldn’t get the outlet side oil temps anywhere near 240DegF.
Also interesting is that in these engines, Housai, M14P and now my M14PF, it has been extremely difficult to impossible to get the oil temp on the outbound side of the engine up to 212deg F to “boil off” any water/condensation from the oil. The oil temps in the system tend to run cold even in the heat of summer. For example, running a week or so ago with OAT around 90DegF, Altitude around 2-3k feet, airspeed at 145-150kts, power at max continuous, oil inlet temps were 124degF with oil cooler door closed. Oil outlet only got to 170degF. The oil cooler was changed (New) as of 800 hours ago, so it is warn. I’m running 25w60 . Climb up to 9-12k of altitude and power back a little and its hard to keep the oil temps above 115degF
For people running the M14P and PF in the summer. What are you seeing for CHT temps on initial take off, cruise, climb? What are the power settings you are using when seeing these tempts?
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd McCutchan
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 1:39 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: M14P mixture adjustment?
Max sustain 167 F and max 15 min is 185 F vs my recommended 170 F and max continuous 240 F.
That seeks like a big difference.
Is it due to Russian oil or radial engine?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd(at)fastaircraft.com (todd(at)fastaircraft.com)
www.fastaircraft.com
On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Robin Hou <rmhou(at)yahoo.com (rmhou(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Bear's listed oil temps are the recommended minimum, not maximum. The format makes the "Min" easy to miss.
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:00 AM, Todd McCutchan <todd(at)fastaircraft.com (todd(at)fastaircraft.com)> wrote:
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd(at)fastaircraft.com (todd(at)fastaircraft.com)
www.fastaircraft.com
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear" <dabear(at)damned.org (dabear(at)damned.org)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps … here is the info from the M14P manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: M14P mixture adjustment?
200° is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well, and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" – to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1) does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA(at)gmail.com (FlyWBA(at)gmail.com)
FlyWBA.com
425-876-0865
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
012345
6789012345
|
67
8901234567
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
89012345678901234
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:32 pm Post subject: M14P mixture adjustment? |
|
|
Bear,
Regarding your design premises for flat engines, keep in mind this is only true for those with a wet sump. For those with a dry sump, which is a whole lot of them, such as the GSO-480 series for example, they too have an external oil tank where most of the oil is outside of the engine case. Just something to keep in mind. I also fly a UTVA-66 with a dry sump GSO-480 with an auto-mixture adjust pressure carb. I can control EGT, and thus CHT and oil temp with a simple push of the throttle by a VAST amount. If I keep RPM up high (3200 or so) and pull the throttle back to say 38 inches (this is a blown engine remember, with max manifold of 48 inches), I can run the EGT's right up into the danger area in seconds. I control CHT and Oil Temp with the throttle... and that was an interesting lesson to learn believe me.
I do not have the external temperature equipment that you have on my M-14P. That said, oil temperature in M-14 engines flying aerobatics using the standard probe locations and standard stock instrumentation has ALWAYS been an issue (meaning they tend to run very high), and many attempts have been made to address this in all models, such as cooler relocation, bigger coolers, wing root changes to add the oil cooler there, etc.
Personally, my YAK-50 in hot weather will run the oil temp right into the red if you let it. Such as on an extended climb. This is true for every YAK and Sukhoi I have ever dealt with.
So your statement that the oil runs so cool as to not even boil off the water runs counter to every single experience I have had with these engines.
The only time I have seen anything near to what you are talking about is when the engines are run WAY WAY RICH. The amount of fuel you dump into this engine makes a HUGE HUGE difference on engine temperature very much the same as the UTVA-66. And the carbs between the two are very similar in the way they work.
For my airplane, speed is the main issue. If I run high power settings in the summer, I have to push the nose over and get some speed to get the oil temp down. However, I am climbing at 85% or HIGHER at full throttle. Yeah, I know a lot of folks like to baby these engines and that is fine, but I have found them to run better when I push them hard. So far .....at over 800 hours, the only engine issues I have had were with leaded up exhaust valves and that is when I was trying to be ever so careful with the engine. Of course MMO fixed all that ....... but I think personally it was because I started running the engine a lot harder and kept it hot. That opinion and 2 cents might buy you a glass of water, however that is what I do, and it works for me. As for anyone else.... you're on your own.
Mark
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of DaBear [dabear(at)damned.org]
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 3:40 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: M14P mixture adjustment?
Disclaimer NOTE: Im just typing while my mind thinks, this is my opinion, not an opinion of an expert. Although, I AM an expert ON my opinions.
In the flat engines, the oil is mostly in the engine and a little is in cooler. In the CJ and Yak oil is mostly in the oil tank, with a little in the engine and a little in the oil cooler. Therefore, the system has lower temp oil overall through the process. It could be that the temp probe for the flat engine is in the engine or on the outlet side. I couldnt get the outlet side oil temps anywhere near 240DegF.
Also interesting is that in these engines, Housai, M14P and now my M14PF, it has been extremely difficult to impossible to get the oil temp on the outbound side of the engine up to 212deg F to boil off any water/condensation from the oil. The oil temps in the system tend to run cold even in the heat of summer. For example, running a week or so ago with OAT around 90DegF, Altitude around 2-3k feet, airspeed at 145-150kts, power at max continuous, oil inlet temps were 124degF with oil cooler door closed. Oil outlet only got to 170degF. The oil cooler was changed (New) as of 800 hours ago, so it is warn. Im running 25w60 . Climb up to 9-12k of altitude and power back a little and its hard to keep the oil temps above 115degF
For people running the M14P and PF in the summer. What are you seeing for CHT temps on initial take off, cruise, climb? What are the power settings you are using when seeing these tempts?
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd McCutchan
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 1:39 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: M14P mixture adjustment?
Max sustain 167 F and max 15 min is 185 F vs my recommended 170 F and max continuous 240 F.
That seeks like a big difference.
Is it due to Russian oil or radial engine?
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd(at)fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd(at)fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 10:06 AM, Robin Hou <rmhou(at)yahoo.com<mailto:rmhou(at)yahoo.com>> wrote:
Bear's listed oil temps are the recommended minimum, not maximum. The format makes the "Min" easy to miss.
On Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:00 AM, Todd McCutchan <todd(at)fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd(at)fastaircraft.com>> wrote:
Why are oil temps so much lower than flat six engines? Is this a radial difference or a Russian oil difference?
On my IO-520 in my T-34 max oil is 240 F with 170 recommended.
Todd McCutchan
T-34A & Yak-50
Cell: (260) 402-1740
E-mail: todd(at)fastaircraft.com<mailto:todd(at)fastaircraft.com>
www.fastaircraft.com<http://www.fastaircraft.com/>
On Jul 9, 2014, at 9:12 AM, "DaBear" <dabear(at)damned.org<mailto:dabear(at)damned.org>> wrote:
Just a reminder about Oil and CHT Temps here is the info from the M14P manual.
Oil Temps
Engine Inlet
C
C
F
F
Recommended
50
65
122
149
Min Permissible
40
104
Max Sustain
75
167
Max 15 Min
85
185
Max Delta in/Out
50
122
32
CHT
32
Recommended
140
190
284
374
Min
120
248
Min Prolonged
140
284
Max Prolonged
220
428
Max 15 Min
240
464
That is the recommendation from the folks that built the M14P. I recommend keeping CHTs well below 400 for engine life. But operation is up to you.
Bear
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2014 9:05 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: M14P mixture adjustment?
200 is acceptable in the climb, but I would not want more than that. In passing, the temperature senders on the sparking plugs are not that accurate, and it is worth cleaning them and the seat on the cylinder well, and also, possibly, moving the sender to another cylinder to check.
You refer to a "bleed jet" to avoid confusion the Russian manual calls it a suction jet. It is made in sizes of 1.3 mm to 2.0 mm, and by virtue of being a compensating jet a smaller jet richens the mixture. It affects the engine at medium and full power settings but not at idle. It does make a big difference to cylinder head temperatures, and indeed to fuel consumption. We recommend to owners to change the jets between summer and winter, and to use the biggest jet that is compatible with engine temperatures being acceptable.
I don't understand what you mean by the jets being "in series". There is only one.
Changing them is easy, and the jet has its size stamped in very small letters on the end.
We have stocks of all the commonly used sizes.
Richard Goode Aerobatics
Rhodds Farm
Lyonshall
Hereford
HR5 3LW
Tel: +44 (0) 1544 340120
Fax: +44 (0) 1544 340129
www.russianaeros.com<http://www.russianaeros.com/>
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com<mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Painter
Sent: 09 July 2014 12:06
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com<mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: M14P mixture adjustment?
Got a Yak-18T that shows head temps of 200 gage on initial climb. Seems a bit high tho it cools down at cruise power. Have not yet verified gage accuracy. Am wondering if its running a bit lean. I don't see a full power enrichment circuit in the carburetor dwgs or any adjustment other than bleed air jets (apparently in series which makes no sense) in the main circuit plus an adjustment on the AMC diaphragm rod. So I have a few questions: 1) does anyone have bleed air jet sets for sale? 2) are the jets actually in series? 3) Do the jets affect the idle, main or full power circuits? How do you establish a baseline in order to evaluate changes made to the mixture short of a flow bench?
Jerry Painter
Wild Blue Aviation
FlyWBA(at)gmail.com<mailto:FlyWBA(at)gmail.com>
FlyWBA.com<http://flywba.com/>
425-876-0865
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner<http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
believed to be clean.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
//forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-Li="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contributi==
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ist"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
//forums.matronics.com
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
http://forums.matronics.com
< - List Contribution Web Site -
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
