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GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

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email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:54 am Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

Today when I started my flight, all seemed well. Â Shortly after takeoff I tried to make a radio call, but when I held the mic key, instead of getting the usual sidetone, I got a series of clicks. Â I don't recall it doing that when I made my departing radio calls. I plugged a second headset into the other front seat and got the same results when I pushed the other PTT. Â I put the second headset back into the original side and tried again with the same result, as to help ensure that the headset wasn't the problem. The first headset was a Bose X through a LEMO plug (which is wired to the adjacent two-plugs per Bose instructions), and the second was a David Clark through the usual two plugs. Â I'm away from my usual shop and tools, so I wonder if anyone might have any tips about where to focus my troubleshooting? Â Has anyone encountered this type of behavior before out of the 430 or another radio? Â This is a single-radio installation with a Flightcom 403 intercom. Â The left and right PTT keys are consolidated in the intercom, but with the behavior being the same on both sides, I'm doubtful that the problem would be there.

  [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:04 am Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

At 12:40 PM 7/24/2014, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Today when I started my flight, all seemed well. 

Â Shortly after takeoff I tried to make a radio 

call, but when I held the mic key, instead of 

getting the usual sidetone, I got a series of 

clicks. Â I don't recall it doing that when I 

made my departing radio calls. I plugged a 

second headset into the other front seat and got 

the same results when I pushed the other PTT. Â 

I put the second headset back into the original 

side and tried again with the same result, as to 

help ensure that the headset wasn't the problem. 

The first headset was a Bose X through a LEMO 

plug (which is wired to the adjacent two-plugs 

per Bose instructions), and the second was a 

David Clark through the usual two plugs. Â I'm 

away from my usual shop and tools, so I wonder 

if anyone might have any tips about where to 

focus my troubleshooting? Â Has anyone 

encountered this type of behavior before out of 

the 430 or another radio? Â This is a 

single-radio installation with a Flightcom 403 

intercom. Â The left and right PTT keys are 

consolidated in the intercom, but with the 

behavior being the same on both sides, I'm 

doubtful that the problem would be there.


	


   Does the intercom work? Can you talk between

   two headsets?  Do people hear your transmissions?

   Do you hear their transmissions?

email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:30 am Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

 	  Quote: 	
		    Does the intercom work? Can you talk between

  two headsets?  Do people hear your transmissions?

  Do you hear their transmissions?


	


Yes, yes, it doesn't seem so, and yes.

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:16 pm Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

At 01:33 PM 7/25/2014, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 >  Does the intercom work? Can you talk between

 >  two headsets?  Do people hear your transmissions?

 >  Do you hear their transmissions?



Yes, yes, it doesn't seem so, and yes.


	


   When you push the PTT, does the transceiver

   go into transmit mode?



   Bob . . .

email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 2:20 pm Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

 	  Quote: 	
		   When you push the PTT, does the transceiver

 go into transmit mode?


	


I'll have to check Monday, but it seemed to. I should modify my description of the sound to "Static with clicks" when I key the mic, since there is a static element to it also.

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 4:44 am Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

At 05:22 PM 7/25/2014, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com>

 > When you push the PTT, does the transceiver

 > go into transmit mode?

 I'll have to check Monday, but it seemed to. I should modify my description of the sound to "Static with clicks" when I key the mic, since there is a static element to it also. 	

   Okay. If the intercom is working then the

   AUDIO paths to the two microphone inputs to

   the intercom are intact. Without having

   a schematic of the IC . . . I have

   no way to deduce how the PTT commands

   are processed going though the IC. 

   In one of the Flightcom installation manuals

   I found a suggested tool for bypassing

   the IC . . . which is also useful for trouble-

   shooting.

 [img]cid:.0[/img]

   Suggest you check your manual for such a

   recommendation and have the tool on hand.

   With the IC bypassed the radio should

   work normally as if only the pilot's headset

   is connected directly to the radio. Whether

   or not this produces improved behavior is

   an important clue for tracking down root cause

   of your problem.

   Bob . . .

227d876f.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

19.32 KB

Viewed:

9323 Time(s)

mapratherid(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:03 am Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about how the GNS has two power feed paths and that if one of them opened, the radio would appear to work but it wouldn't transmit?  I think someone had this issue when their radio wasn't fully inserted into the tray/rack. Might not be the case here, but could be worth checking out. 

Regards,

Matt-

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2014, at 6:43 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

[quote]  At 05:22 PM 7/25/2014, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com (email(at)jaredyates.com)>

 > When you push the PTT, does the transceiver

 > go into transmit mode?

 I'll have to check Monday, but it seemed to. I should modify my description of the sound to "Static with clicks" when I key the mic, since there is a static element to it also. 	

   Okay. If the intercom is working then the

   AUDIO paths to the two microphone inputs to

   the intercom are intact. Without having

   a schematic of the IC . . . I have

   no way to deduce how the PTT commands

   are processed going though the IC. 

   In one of the Flightcom installation manuals

   I found a suggested tool for bypassing

   the IC . . . which is also useful for trouble-

   shooting.

 <227d876f.jpg>

   Suggest you check your manual for such a

   recommendation and have the tool on hand.

   With the IC bypassed the radio should

   work normally as if only the pilot's headset

   is connected directly to the radio. Whether

   or not this produces improved behavior is

   an important clue for tracking down root cause

   of your problem.

   Bob . . .  

[b]

tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:32 am Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

The 430 does have separate comm and NAV power feeds, but I believe most often they are on a single fuse/CB/wire and simply "Y" into the two pins inside the D-sub connector. If the comm side is not powered the comm info display on the RHS of the screen will not be there. 

Tim

On Jul 26, 2014, at 9:01 AM, Matthew Prather <mapratherid(at)gmail.com (mapratherid(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Wasn't there some discussion awhile back about how the GNS has two power feed paths and that if one of them opened, the radio would appear to work but it wouldn't transmit?  I think someone had this issue when their radio wasn't fully inserted into the tray/rack. Might not be the case here, but could be worth checking out. 

Regards,

Matt-

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 26, 2014, at 6:43 AM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 05:22 PM 7/25/2014, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com (email(at)jaredyates.com)>

 > When you push the PTT, does the transceiver

 > go into transmit mode?

 I'll have to check Monday, but it seemed to. I should modify my description of the sound to "Static with clicks" when I key the mic, since there is a static element to it also. 	

   Okay. If the intercom is working then the

   AUDIO paths to the two microphone inputs to

   the intercom are intact. Without having

   a schematic of the IC . . . I have

   no way to deduce how the PTT commands

   are processed going though the IC. 

   In one of the Flightcom installation manuals

   I found a suggested tool for bypassing

   the IC . . . which is also useful for trouble-

   shooting.

 <227d876f.jpg>

   Suggest you check your manual for such a

   recommendation and have the tool on hand.

   With the IC bypassed the radio should

   work normally as if only the pilot's headset

   is connected directly to the radio. Whether

   or not this produces improved behavior is

   an important clue for tracking down root cause

   of your problem.

   Bob . . .  

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

lectric-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

//forums.matronics.com

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

ot;">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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[b]

uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:22 am Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

I had that problem. The GNS430 wasn't fully inserted into its slot and although the RX and TX button lit up it did not seem to transmit (or receive as I remember). See 



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=98650&view=next&sid=a9694aaf0de05619e08664647aea1483 

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 26 Jul 2014, at 18:01, Matthew Prather <mapratherid(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 I think someone had this issue when their radio wasn't fully inserted into the tray/rack. Might not be the case here, but could be worth checking out.

skywagon

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 5:04 pm Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

Sacha makes a very good point. .

The 430 chassis to box-chassis connector fit is finicky.

I know. . .I have the "T-shirt"



If the box-chassis is mounted in the aircraft panel a little to deep, this 

causes a problem.  For when the 430 is slid into the box, it will not seat 

back deep enough to fully engage some connector pins.



The fix is to loosen up the panel mounted box chassis and pull it forward to 

be flush with the panel or even a tad ( 1/16") out in front of the panel and 

then re-bolt it back to the panel framing.



Another point. . .I do not recommend that you use the 430 locking jack 

mechanism to pull the 430 back into its locked position.  If something is 

not aligned correctly you will not know it using the this method and could 

damage pins.



I suggest that you get the 430 inserted by hand, fingers on each end of the 

the 430 panel.  Gently rock it back in place feeling for any obstruction. 

Get it started in, turn the jacking system just enough to take up the slack. 

Then, using fingers only, rock the 430 further back into place and again 

feel for any odd resistance, then, using the jack, take up the slack.

Continue this until you "feel" it seat properly with it rear connectors. 

Stop if you feel any odd resistance and start over after checking for any 

bent pins, etc.

David



---

jloram

Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 54
Location: United States

Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:32 am Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

Sound like the voice of experience!



--

email(at)jaredyates.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:44 am Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

Thanks for all of the troubleshooting tips!  I removed the 430, visually inspected the pins carefully, and reseated it as David suggests, and it is fixed!



[quote] On Jul 26, 2014, at 21:02, "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 Sacha makes a very good point. .

 The 430 chassis to box-chassis connector fit is finicky.

 I know. . .I have the "T-shirt"

 

 If the box-chassis is mounted in the aircraft panel a little to deep, this causes a problem.  For when the 430 is slid into the box, it will not seat back deep enough to fully engage some connector pins.

 

 The fix is to loosen up the panel mounted box chassis and pull it forward to be flush with the panel or even a tad ( 1/16") out in front of the panel and then re-bolt it back to the panel framing.

 

 Another point. . .I do not recommend that you use the 430 locking jack mechanism to pull the 430 back into its locked position.  If something is not aligned correctly you will not know it using the this method and could damage pins.

 

 I suggest that you get the 430 inserted by hand, fingers on each end of the the 430 panel.  Gently rock it back in place feeling for any obstruction. Get it started in, turn the jacking system just enough to take up the slack. Then, using fingers only, rock the 430 further back into place and again feel for any odd resistance, then, using the jack, take up the slack.

 Continue this until you "feel" it seat properly with it rear connectors. Stop if you feel any odd resistance and start over after checking for any bent pins, etc.

 David

 

 ---

uuccio(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

Great to hear! David's tips are very useful (found out the hard way...)



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 28, 2014, at 19:41, Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com> wrote:

 

 it is fixed!

mapratherid(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: GNS430 Microphone/Sidetone Problem

Cool!



Matt-



On Mon, Jul 28, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com (email(at)jaredyates.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jared Yates <email(at)jaredyates.com (email(at)jaredyates.com)>

  

 Thanks for all of the troubleshooting tips! Â I removed the 430, visually inspected the pins carefully, and reseated it as David suggests, and it is fixed!

 

 

 

 > On Jul 26, 2014, at 21:02, "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net (skywagon(at)charter.net)> wrote:

 >

 > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Lloyd" <skywagon(at)charter.net (skywagon(at)charter.net)>

 >

 > Sacha makes a very good point. .

 > The 430 chassis to box-chassis connector fit is finicky.

 > I know. . .I have the "T-shirt"

 >

 > If the box-chassis is mounted in the aircraft panel a little to deep, this causes a problem. Â For when the 430 is slid into the box, it will not seat back deep enough to fully engage some connector pins.

 >

 > The fix is to loosen up the panel mounted box chassis and pull it forward to be flush with the panel or even a tad ( 1/16") out in front of the panel and then re-bolt it back to the panel framing.

 >

 > Another point. . .I do not recommend that you use the 430 locking jack mechanism to pull the 430 back into its locked position. Â If something is not aligned correctly you will not know it using the this method and could damage pins.

  >

 > I suggest that you get the 430 inserted by hand, fingers on each end of the the 430 panel. Â Gently rock it back in place feeling for any obstruction. Get it started in, turn the jacking system just enough to take up the slack. Then, using fingers only, rock the 430 further back into place and again feel for any odd resistance, then, using the jack, take up the slack.

  > Continue this until you "feel" it seat properly with it rear connectors. Stop if you feel any odd resistance and start over after checking for any bent pins, etc.

 > David

 >

 > ---

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