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PC 680 Purchase

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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:33 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

8/26/2014

  

 Hello Fellow Listers, Please tell me (and other readers) why I should pay  more for an Odyssey PC 680 battery for my EAB airplane rather than a less  expensive battery that â€œmayâ€ be â€œjust as goodâ€.

  

 http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

  

 Thanks,

  

 OC

  

   [quote][b]

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:04 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

On 8/26/2014 7:32 AM, Owen Baker wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                             8/26/2014

           Â 

           Hello Fellow Listers, Please tell me (and other readers)             why I should pay more for an Odyssey PC 680 battery for my             EAB airplane rather than a less expensive battery that â€œmayâ€             be â€œjust as goodâ€.

           Â 

           http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

           Â 

           Thanks,

           Â 

           OC

           Â 

           

         

       

     	
     I certainly can't help convince you. 

     

     I've been using 'no name' AGM batteries in my homebuilts for almost     20 years. The only thing to watch is that some of the AGM batteries     are designed for use in UPS power supplies, electric wheel chairs,     etc, and their internal impedance is a bit higher than an Odyssey     starting battery. Either look for a 'no name' 18AH *starting*     battery for a motorcycle/watercraft, or buy a 22 AH AGM battery     (same form factor as the Odyssey) and don't worry about the intended     application. The slightly higher AH rating pushes the internal     resistance down in the same neighborhood as the Odyssey, meaning it     can start an engine just as well (or better) than the Odyssey, and     has significantly better energy reserve if you're 'electrically     dependent'.

     

     Charlie

      [quote][b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:08 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

OC,



My 2¢…

The phrase “may” be “just as good.” sums it up.  I don’t like “may be” anywhere near my EAB aircraft.  I’ve piddled with other “may” be “just as good” batteries and ended up replacing them with a PC680 because it is the standard by which all the other “may” be “just as good” batteries are compared.  It works as promised every time all the time and I think it is worth paying for.  So when my last  PC680 reached the end of its service life in July, I ordered another PC680 to replace it.  

I just wish that battery mart special had been on then.  That’s a good deal!

Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (50 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX  76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)



On Aug 26, 2014, at 6:32 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:

[quote]    8/26/2014

  

 Hello Fellow Listers, Please tell me (and other readers) why I should pay  more for an Odyssey PC 680 battery for my EAB airplane rather than a less  expensive battery that “may” be “just as good”.

  

 http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

  

 Thanks,

  

 OC



[b]

Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:08 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

"May" be just as good?  If you know it just as good there is no reason to pay more for the PC 680 but you seem to have some doubt and that "may" be your answer. 



 Bob Reed

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 26, 2014, at 7:32 AM, "Owen Baker " <bakerocb(at)cox.net (bakerocb(at)cox.net)> wrote:

[quote]    8/26/2014

  

 Hello Fellow Listers, Please tell me (and other readers) why I should pay  more for an Odyssey PC 680 battery for my EAB airplane rather than a less  expensive battery that â€œmayâ€ be â€œjust as goodâ€.

  

 http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

  

 Thanks,

  

 OC

  

    	  Quote: 	
		  



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lectric-List"">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

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[b]

recapen(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:14 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

Charlie,



More info on the 22 AH AGM battery

    (same form factor as the Odyssey) please!

Brand, cost, source.....



Thanks



--

tshankland(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:34 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

I may be the exception since I am flying  an  all electric Stratus Suburu, but I have been using a pair of UPS batteries I buy  from Batteries Plus for years. I replaced the ones I was using for final  building and testing in 2006 but have been using them in a battery pack for  remote use ever since and they still work great. I use two 7 AH batteries that  are connected in parallel for starting and then run two independent busses for  operation. I don't know about starting some of those large bore engines but my  Suburu spins and starts fine. I still replace the batteries every couple of  years "just in case" at $40.00 each it is cheap insurance, and I have a lot of  small 12V batteries for other projects.

  

 Tim Shankland

 [quote]   ----- Orignal Message ----- 

   From:    Owen Baker  (bakerocb(at)cox.net)

   To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)    

   Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 8:32    AM

   Subject: PC 680    Purchase

   



         8/26/2014

    

   Hello Fellow Listers, Please tell me (and other readers) why I should pay    more for an Odyssey PC 680 battery for my EAB airplane rather than a less    expensive battery that â€œmayâ€ be â€œjust as goodâ€.

    

   http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

    

   Thanks,

    

   OC

    

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

	
[b]

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:00 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

On 08/26/2014 08:32 AM, Owen Baker wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   8/26/2014

  

 Hello Fellow Listers, Please tell me (and other readers) why I should

 pay more for an Odyssey PC 680 battery for my EAB airplane rather than a

 less expensive battery that â€œmayâ€ be â€œjust as goodâ€.

  

 http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

  

 Thanks,

  

 OC


	




Hi OC,

	I posted this a couple of weeks ago, but will repeat it below.  I just

received my new PC680 a couple of days ago and have not installed it in

the aircraft yet, but so far no voltage drop from just sitting on the

bench, unlike the UB12220 battery.



	If you get a "good" UB12220 it "may" work fine, but I didn't want to

take a chance on getting stranded somewhere to save $60 in up-front

costs.  I was going to replace the UB12220 every year, and have decided

to go for two years with the PC680 based on others' experiences, so the

cost turns out to be about the same in the end.

Here is my previous message:



Listers may recall that I tried one of the UB12220 batteries earlier

this summer:



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G8FY38/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1



I received the battery, put it on the Schumacher charger to ensure it

was fully charged (verified with a voltmeter when done), and installed

in the aircraft (O-320).  Cranked over well on the first try and seemed

to turn the engine just as well as the "aircraft" battery that I had

removed.



However, two days later I took the airplane out again, and the blade

turned about 1/3 of the way through a revolution and stopped. Battery

was dead.  I have no parasitic loads in my aircraft, so when the master

is off, there is nothing else connected to the battery, and I did not

accidentally leave the master switch on.  Pulled the battery, put it on

the charger and let it fully charge (verified with a voltmeter).  Left

it on the bench unconnected for a couple of days, and the voltage had

dropped to 10.86 volts.



I am assuming that the battery arrived defective, and I've double

checked the voltage output on the charger I used.  This is only one data

point, but I will likely go with the PC680 when I get around to ordering

another battery.



On the positive side the company gave me a full refund on the battery,

so the overall "cost" was my time in trying the experiment.



-Dj

-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:56 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

On 8/26/2014 10:00 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On 08/26/2014 08:32 AM, Owen Baker wrote:

> 8/26/2014

>   

> Hello Fellow Listers, Please tell me (and other readers) why I should

> pay more for an Odyssey PC 680 battery for my EAB airplane rather than a

> less expensive battery that â€œmayâ€ be â€œjust as goodâ€.

>   

> http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

>   

> Thanks,

>   

> OC

 Hi OC,

 	I posted this a couple of weeks ago, but will repeat it below.  I just

 received my new PC680 a couple of days ago and have not installed it in

 the aircraft yet, but so far no voltage drop from just sitting on the

 bench, unlike the UB12220 battery.

 	If you get a "good" UB12220 it "may" work fine, but I didn't want to

 take a chance on getting stranded somewhere to save $60 in up-front

 costs.  I was going to replace the UB12220 every year, and have decided

 to go for two years with the PC680 based on others' experiences, so the

 cost turns out to be about the same in the end.

 Here is my previous message:

 Listers may recall that I tried one of the UB12220 batteries earlier

 this summer:

 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G8FY38/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 I received the battery, put it on the Schumacher charger to ensure it

 was fully charged (verified with a voltmeter when done), and installed

 in the aircraft (O-320).  Cranked over well on the first try and seemed

 to turn the engine just as well as the "aircraft" battery that I had

 removed.

 However, two days later I took the airplane out again, and the blade

 turned about 1/3 of the way through a revolution and stopped. Battery

 was dead.  I have no parasitic loads in my aircraft, so when the master

 is off, there is nothing else connected to the battery, and I did not

 accidentally leave the master switch on.  Pulled the battery, put it on

 the charger and let it fully charge (verified with a voltmeter).  Left

 it on the bench unconnected for a couple of days, and the voltage had

 dropped to 10.86 volts.

 I am assuming that the battery arrived defective, and I've double

 checked the voltage output on the charger I used.  This is only one data

 point, but I will likely go with the PC680 when I get around to ordering

 another battery.

 On the positive side the company gave me a full refund on the battery,

 so the overall "cost" was my time in trying the experiment.

 -Dj

DJ,

I'd never tell you to do something you're not comfortable with, but I *would* caution against implying that a single event makes a universal principle. Remember, others have documented DOA & early failures of Odyssey batteries, too.

I've used 'cheap' batteries in my plane for almost 20 years, and the only early failure I've had was due to a pinhole in a case; obviously a handling or or shipping issue. Even in that 'case' (pardon the pun), the battery's starting ability slowly degenerated over several months. Due to family and general 'life' issues, I sometimes go a month or more between flights, and my multi-year old cheapie still cranks my O320 just fine. Therefore, no evidence that 'the UB12220' self-discharges any faster (or slower) than a PC680. I haven't bothered with capacity testing yet, because this plane is a day-vfr, non-electrically dependent a/c. I promise that I'll pay more attention to battery condition (but I'll still use a cheapie) when my electrically dependent -7 flies. 

Charlie

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:22 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

If you get a "good" UB12220 it "may" work fine, but I didn't want to

 take a chance on getting stranded somewhere to save $60 in up-front

 costs.  I was going to replace the UB12220 every year, and have decided

 to go for two years with the PC680 based on others' experiences, so the

 cost turns out to be about the same in the end.



  How about TESTING what ever brand of battery you use? The interesting thing about this thread is what is NOT said. Whether the writer is for or against any particular battery, the criteria for battery selection is accompanied by little if any DATA.

 

  I've lurked the aviation forum battery threads for decades. I'm saddened to report than in no instance has anyone advocated for any particular battery based on measurements and assessment of data and operating conditions that offer a reader opportunity to repeat the experiment.

 

  I've yet to read about any battery getting replaced for failure to meet battery-only endurance requirements. They get replaced when cranking performance degrades or fails.

 

  Batteries not withstanding, suitability to task for any commodity is subject to a huge array of variables. We are never privy to the operating conditions or life-time experiences of batteries that performed well versus those that have received poor marks.

 

  Did a short-lived battery experience a deep-discharge event? Is the charging voltage appropriate to long life. How many cranking events did the Brand A successfully power vs. those for Brand B? What was the cost-of-ownership for Brand-A vs. Brand B?

 



  I do not suggest that anecdotal data has no value but it's a good thing that we understand the difference between suds-n-burgers data versus engineering data.  The next time somebody offers service life data on a battery, it would be REALLY cool if the writer could offer months in service where an endurance goal of x.x hours at x.x amps was supported. If you've got an endurance bus, then this number is easy to get . . . just do a practice session for an alternator out event. During a long cross country, shut the alternator of and time the battery only endurance down to 11.0 volts.

 

  Lacking hard data, the builder faced with a purchasing decision is pretty much on his own irrespective of the S-n-B data offered on the forums. Being willing and able to put NUMBERS on any battery experience is a really good thing.

    Bob . . .    [quote][b]

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:51 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

On 08/26/2014 12:57 PM, Charlie England wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > I am assuming that the battery arrived defective, and I've double

> checked the voltage output on the charger I used.  This is only one data

> point, but I will likely go with the PC680 when I get around to ordering

> another battery.

>

 

 DJ,

 

 I'd never tell you to do something you're not comfortable with, but I

 *would* caution against implying that a single event makes a universal

 principle.


	




Hi Charlie,

	I did point out in my post that this was only one data point, and I was

not trying to make (and hope that no one thought I was implying) that my

experience was a general rule.  I tried the "cheap" battery as an

experiment, and determined I didn't want to spend any more effort on it

after the first failure.  I freely admit to simply being frustrated and

"just want something that works".  On the flip side, I have had great

success with the UB types of batteries in UPS units for years, which is

what prompted me to try it in the first place.



	Once bitten, twice shy, as they say...  



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:03 am Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

On 08/26/2014 01:20 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		       *How about TESTING what ever brand of battery you *

     *use? The interesting thing about this thread is *

     *what is NOT said. Whether the writer is for or against *

     *any particular battery, the criteria for battery *

     *selection is accompanied by little if any DATA.*


	




Hi Bob,

	We did discuss this here on the list back in the Spring, along with

criteria for battery selection, data, testing, etc...  



	Not sure there is any point in rehashing the entire thread since it is

available in the archives, but the gist was simply to try it and see

what happened.  I did, I wasn't satisfied, and decided as my fallback to

go with the more main stream solution, the PC680.  Personally I don't

care what is stamped on the side of the battery as long as it works,

hence my willingness to attempt the experiment with the "cheap" battery.

 It is possible that if I bought a second UB-type battery that it would

work fine, or possible that it would not, and I simply want to get the

plane back flying without having to fuss with it anymore.  I "feel"

(nothing quantitative here) that going with the PC680 offers a higher

chance of success in this regard, given others experience with it.



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - VP EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject: PC 680 Purchase

Hi OC, Price  Gill or Concord and the PC 680 is Cheap    

   From:  owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Owen  Baker 

Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 5:33 AM

To:  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: PC 680  Purchase

   8/26/2014

 Hello Fellow Listers, Please tell me (and other readers) why I should pay  more for an Odyssey PC 680 battery for my EAB airplane rather than a less  expensive battery that “may” be “just as good”.

 http://www.batterymart.com/p-odyssey-pc680-battery.html

 Thanks,

 OC

 	  Quote: 	

ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

ics.com

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